Monday, June 6, 2016

Game of Thrones: Season 6 Episode 7 - The Broken Man

Hello friends and welcome back!  These seasons always seem to go fast don't they? We're 7 episodes into the 6th season now and things are getting pretty intense (as if they ever aren't)!  Lots of setup in this episode for which I have to imagine will be a pretty insane 3 episode final stretch.  Let's dive into the discussion.

Discussion Points
  • I THINK they're in Volantis (In Arya's story the men in the harbor spoke about the Iron Fleet being in Slaver's Bay).  I have no idea how they got there so quickly, but we can't really worry about geography in season 6.  It happens on the best of shows.  Jon Snow was all over the map in this episode for instance!  (Note: I just read an interview with writer Bryan Cogman that they intentionally cannot sync up the timelines between stories within a season with risk of losing momentum.  I figured that's the case, but it's nice to hear them say it!)  
  • Breaking news, Yara likes girls! Something tells me she is like Oberyn Martell and will take any piece of meat she can get.  But she had some good lines in this episode.  And of course, Theon was having none of it.  He has no interest and it just reminds him of what he's lost.  
  • This scene was basically the scene to tell Theon to forget the past and snap out of it.  He's still alive and he'll get his revenge.   Euron will be after them so Yara's plan is to get to Dany first and forge a contract with her and take back the Iron Islands.   Theon took some convincing but he's for sure on board and we hope he'll get his inner Theon back! 
King's Landing

  • Margaery is still up to something, but she's playing the game well with the High Sparrow.  She appears to be a true born again servant of the seven.  Though, she is not fulfilling her queenly duties to bear Tommen an heir.  I got a laugh out of this because all I could picture was Tommen complaining to the high sparrow that he wasn't getting any.  Good times!  
  • The Sparrow wants the Queen of Thorns to begin her path towards repentance too.  This led to a great scene of her bad mouthing the Shame Non (Septa Onella) in front of Margaery.  Margery finally got Lady Olenna to head back to Highgarden by sneaking her a note of a rose (their sigil).  Essentially a sign that Margaery has things under control. 
  • Olenna later went to see Cersei to tell her to pack up and leave town too.  Cersei was genuinely asking for the Queen of Thorns' help with getting Tommen back.   While Cersei's prospects of support are dwindling the point of this scene seemed clear to indicate Cersei will NEVER leave (King's Landing or her son).   We'll see how this progresses! 

  • Biggest news of the episode.  BRONN IS BACK!   Apparently, that actor is only contracted for like 4 episodes per season.  I guess they saved him for the final 4 this year?  Surely, he's been in more in past seasons but I never counted.  Anyway, his banter with Jaime was a welcome return. 
  • The Freys began the siege at Riverrun on Walder's orders, but Jaime and Bronn were bashing the setup as they allowed the entire Lannister Army to sneak up on them without even a warning.  Jaime assumed command of the siege by command of the King. 
  • For the 2nd week in a row there were also reminders of these Frey characters and their roles at the Red Wedding.  The one doing all the talking claimed to be the one that slit Catelyn Stark's throat.  
  • Blackfish called the Frey bluff and Edmure Tully was not killed yet (and has yet to deliver a line).  Jaime also threatened to kill him and everyone in the castle though, but Blackfish is not deterred.  He will not give up Riverrun to the Freys and they can hold out a siege with provisions for 2 years.  Things are just getting interesting here!  Brienne will be sure to add another layer of drama when she shows up.  
Uniting the North

We follow Jon, Sansa, Tormund and Davos as they try to unite the smaller houses of the North to join the fight against the Boltons.  This season the show has done a good job reminding us that the Starks are out of favor in Westeros due to the events of the series.   I have always believed that the Starks will get kicked down to the lowest point before beginning a redemption arc.  I believe that's what we're starting to see in the show now.  

  • Jon first started with the wildlings.  The wildlings were not interested in fighting as they are pretty decimated as it is.  Jon tried to convince them that the Boltons, Karstarks and Umbers know that the wildlings are hurting in numbers and will come for them anyway.  Jon sympathized with the situation and knew he shouldn't be asking for help.  But, he knows they need each other.  Tormund threw in his support speaking about how Jon died to bring the wildlings south of the wall.  You can always count on Wun Wun to make a big statement.  All he needed to do was say, "SNOW" to show his support.  With that, the wildlings were in.  All 2000 of them.  
  • Next, Jon travelled to Bear Island to House Mormont.  This is the house of the former Lord Commander of the Night's Watch as well as his son Jorah who we know from Dany's storyline. Well, due to the events of the series they are now led by a Mormont girl named after the infamous Stark that we are finally starting to learn more about.  Lyanna Mormont was a great addition to the cast and was pretty snarky with Jon.  We were reminded of a letter sent to Stannis at the wall that threw their support behind the Starks. Lyanna insulted both Jon (Snow) and Sansa (Bolton/Lannister) implying they're not Starks.  Sansa took offense and implied she is always a Stark.  But, it wasn't until Davos started speaking about the Real War to come between the living and the dead.  Jon spoke of how her uncle fought the dead at the Fist of the First Men and he fought them at Hardhome.  They indicated they need to fight together as there is no avoiding this.  With this Lyanna was in with all 62 of her soldiers.  Fantastic!  I love that this grand scene resulted in only 62 people.  It shows that they certainly have an uphill climb.  Also, it looks like Jon is not forgetting about the bigger threat to come and his potential role in it.  
  • Jon then went to House Glover, but they were not easily recruited.  In fact, they were not able to be swayed.  Once Jon was forced to say that the bulk of his forces were made up of wildlings the Glovers were out.  Sansa tried to invoke their pledge to always support the Starks when the banners are called, but Lord Glover responded with what happened after they followed Robb Stark into battle.  His father was killed, the iron born took their castle.  The Boltons helped them get it back.  Glover also was not pleased with Robb marrying Talisa and getting himself and his followers killed.  He implied House Stark is dead. 
  • So with that, Jon's forces are shy of 3000 and garrisoned near Winterfell where Stannis had his forces.  Jon said they have to attack now while they still can implying another storm could hit any day.  Sansa questioned Jon taking Davos' advice now after bringing in the Mormonts and his history with Stannis (losing Blackwater among there things).  
  • We know that Sansa has an option she's been concealing from Jon as it would reveal her connection to Littlefinger.  But, it appeared at the end of this episode that she was going to send a Raven to him or at least Lord Royce at the Vale to ask for help from the Knights of the Vale.   And obviously, we still have potential hope with the Blackfish but I'm not sure how they'll get aid to Jon if they're under siege.  
  • Arya confidently attempts to book passage home with Westerosi.  She had plenty of money to make her demands to get a cabin and to leave at dawn instead of in 2 days.  Everything was looking optimistic for her!
  • Then an old lady start creeping towards her on a bridge.  I think we all knew it was the Waif, but Arya wasn't fast enough to react.  She got sliced across the belly and then stabbed a few times with a knife.  WHAAAT!?!?!  She fell off the bridge and the Waif looked pleased with the result.  
  • Obviously, that wasn't the end of Arya.  We follow her bleeding down the streets of Braavos with onlookers just staring at her.  I'm going to say that she'll survive this, but I was totally shocked the Waif got to her so easily.  Perhaps she'll go to the theater troupe for help?  I can't imagine who else would help her unless Jaqen still has a soft spot for her.  But, whatever happens, the Waif will not survive this season I'm sure of it!    
The Broken Man

So, we had a cold open this episode!  According to interviews, they made the reveal early and before the opening credits so that it wouldn't be spoiled by the name being in the credits.  Makes sense!  I unfortunately already knew who it was going to be.  And probably a lot of people were spoiled due to Ian MacShane already revealing who he was working with on the show in interviews.  
  • It was a fun little "very un Game of Thrones-ish" story though.  A Septon (MacShane) had a bit of a following of lost souls who he brought together and tried to give them a 2nd shot at life.  He had them building a church and just overall having a pleasant time with it all.  
  • It wasn't long before it was revealed that THE HOUND was in his services!  As they always say, if you don't see someone die on screen they're probably not dead.  This was true in the books as well.  It has yet to be confirmed if The Hound is alive in the books, but there is someone that meets his description who was in service of a man very much like this septon.   The setup was a little different though.  I think the presumed hound was a gravedigger in the book.  But, it was pretty poetic in the books and the show.  Both Clegane brothers were presumed dead, but both somehow secretly survived and are going by different names.   (Robert Strong did not gain much traction in the show though as he is still referred to as The Mountain)
  • The septon took a liking to Sandor Clegane and spoke to how he found him.   He appeared dead with bugs all over him and was going to give him a proper burial.  But, then then found coughed.  It appeared he was going to die several times after that but something fueled him on. The septon spoke of religion and how the gods/god was not done with him yet.  It wasn't the first time he had heard that.  He fought Beric Dondarrion who has risen 6 times by the "lord of light" and defeated him.  The Brotherhood believed that the Lord still had plans for Clegane.  
  • The Hound doesn't believe in the gods.  The septon says he doesn't know which religion is right, but does believe in a higher power.  
  • Lots of philosophical talk ensues with The Hound still being a naysayer.  Then, soldiers from the Brotherhood show up.  We know this because they are speaking about the night being dark and full of terrors and because The Hound told us they were.  They seem to threaten the septon and want their food, steel and whatever else they have.  The Hound pretty much implies they're going to get killed if they don't prepare to fight.  The Septon though no longer believes in fighting.  
  • The Hound continued to chop wood and when he returned the Septon and his band of followers were all killed.  The Hound grabbed his axe and moved on.   Where will he go?  No telling! 
It is surprising though that the Brotherhood would just up and kill these seemingly innocent people.  But, I was more interested in the fact that the Brotherhood actually have showed back up.  Everything is pointing in the direction of a storyline that book fans have been clamoring for for years and had all but given up on it happening.  But, the pieces seem to be in place this season for it to happen.  Obviously, I'm not going to speak of it out in the open unless it happens!  But, I cannot withhold my excitement by not referring to it at all!  Still, while the pieces are in place, the setup is different than the books so I'm sure it will not go down exactly the same way.  I'm looking forward to seeing what they have planned for us! 

This was a pretty decent episode.  I think the setups last week and this week will lead to big payoffs, but for now the Hodor episode is the big highlight of the season.  I'm very excited at the potential big moments that could come in the final 3 episodes.  And I'm looking forward to discussing them in the coming weeks.  Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and I'll see you next week! 


Anonymous said...

Yea, Yara being gay--show runners can't help themselves. I thought to myself that it's kind of crazy since she's been using her heritage as a reason to rule, ie, she'll have no heirs. Maybe an Oberyn, but that wasn't even implied.

BTW, lots of women rulers which brings me back to Margery taking over as her plan.

I'm sure Dany will join up with Yara and girl power will take over Westeros. But, does that mean that Dany will land on the Iron Islands first? And again, Dany isn't a good ruler so how long will the Yara/Dany alliance last.

More later.


Mike V. said...

Well there was when Theon came back to the Iron Islands in season 2...she seemed semi-turned on when he didn't realize she was his sister. lol But, she acted disgusted at him later when she revealed who she was.

Yeah yeah girl's happening to an extent. It really doesn't make sense for Dany to go to Iron Islands first, but that might be part of the arrangement with Yara. Dorne seems to be the most logical location and why they may still be keeping them on the game board in the show. And of course, more women rulers there.

It's more than just Yara/Dany....they have Tyrion too as the man behind the maaam. lol

***********************************Speculation/Book Stuff**************************

LS is happening...seems pretty obvious now right??? Brotherhood seems to be led by different motivations. All the reminders of the Frey wrongdoings.....that dude threatening Edmure is totally going to run into LS and get hanged. Has to happen. Whether Brienne and Jaime have their run ins this season is up in the air.

Clegane might happen. With all the talk of religion...."the gods aren't done with you yet"....seems a strong indicator he might be fighting for the faith against his brother. But, were they in the riverlands? Is he just going to hop on down to Kings Landing on a whim? lol

MJ said...

You guys and your 'girl power'. LOL How powerful is a woman who has to flee her home so her uncle doesn't kill her ? But yes - she is attempting to gain some power.

Did not expect the Hound to be alive. And to be frank - the guy who saved the hound - I know he was on the sow but I can't remember he who or why of who he is. THis show goes off the air for 10 months a year and they brig back a character from 2 or 3 years ago ! LOL I know the actor so that is the only reason I recall seeig him.

More later

MJ said...

Oops - meant to say - Richard I expected you to be crowing all over he comments about Brienne's incompetence in that she did not kill the hound giving how much you love her ! LOL

Anonymous said...

Exactly, it's only on for about 2 months and we're supposed to recall the detail of 5 or so YEARS ago--a complaint I won't abandon! Too few eps/season.

Sandor admitted he was beat by a woman--Brienne so that again added to the girl power of this ep--lol. Until he beats her, which I don't see happening, it's more likely that she'll just beat him again since he's crippled now.

Jamie IS going to meet Brienne AND they're going to be on opposite sides, it's all set up that way. I'm betting next ep. ONly 3 eps left. Jamie's a criple so I don't see him doing well in that match up. At this point there is only one possible combatant that can beat the might Brienne and her clumsiness--the Mountain. But, he's Dornish girl meat--lol.
Jamie wants to get back to Cersei quickly and so take care of the Riverrun stuff asap. We don't know the relative force strength, so don't know which side has the advantage. If Cersei were to be taken out, I'm not sure what Jamie would do.

Clegane Bowl--hmm. I don't see how religion will come into play as it appears neither really cares much about it. Although Sandor could be experiencing a religious reaction to the slaughter he just saw and we don't know it yet. So, maybe he could side with the Sparrow. Add him to just another guy ready to battle with the Starks too if you know what, happens.

Right now the 2 power centers appear to be Dany and the Sparrow. I wonder how that meeting would go?


I had given up on LS until the Riverrun stuff came back and now with the Brothers coming back into play, it's even looking more likely!


MJ said...

Nah - Brienne and Hound will meet again - and will both wind up fighting on the same side - they will have a grudging admiration for each other. Jamie can't win if the Starks win - so he will go back and rescue Cersei and Tommen who have to flee cause they are losing the throne. Or Jamie and Cersei die together defending Kings Landing. Jamie will meet Brienne - but both live from that meeting.

That is my fantasy any way LOL

Anonymous said...

Am I the only one who kind of likes Jamie? After his changes. I was hoping that Jamie and Cersei could just go back to their home. Of course they're kind of financially broke now.

My ONLY question is will Brienne kill Jamie? At this point, I'm about 50/50 she takes him out. Also, the Lannister's backed Roose, so they could join in with fighting against the Stark's with their old ally. The only thing is, that seems to make technical sense but just doesn't feel like the mood of the show now. Ramsay is NOT Roose and so if Jamie had a choice on which side to go with, MAYBE, just MAYBE he sides with the Stark's against Ramsay.

There's a lot of potential for a tangled web of conflict/alliances right now. Lots of players on the field that will find a spot soon.

Starks--not much there really(except SUPERWOMAN, maybe Snow)
Mormont--again, not much there
Petyr's Vale army

Who from the above will fight or join the following:
Boltons and already aligned houses.

Any guesses and who did I miss?

Brienne and Sandor fighting together--I could see that.


Anonymous said...

And does the Lanister army as well as Yara's ships have jet packs. I mean they both traveled several weeks worth in just a single ep.

Does anybody think Brienne can talk Jamie into attacking the Boltons? It would give meaning to their road trip. I've been thinking on this a little and believe it's possible since they took his hand.


Mike V. said...

@MJ - Girlpower - I honestly wouldn't even recognize it unless Richard kept bringing it up lol

Ian MacShane (aka septon Ray) was never on the show before. You probably recognize him from Deadwood. His casting made a lot of news, but no one really knew he'd only be in one episode. As for the hound being alive...i tried not to discuss it too publicly as I figured it would be more of a surprise for show fans. Book fans at least had speculations he was alive.

LOL i expected comments from Richard on brienne as well. lol I'm sure they're coming in the comments still to read!

Too few eps a season = EVENT TELEVISION and required rewatches! :-) (kidding on the 2nd part) 3 more episodes a season wouldn't make it that much easier to recall characters. this case Ray was never on the show before.
I don't necessarily think Brienne and Jaime will fight when they encounter each other....but book readers know a bit more that COULD happen.

There's a reason I put Clegane Bowl into the SPECULATION section FYI. But it isn't really spoilers at this point since the hound has been confirmed alive. and the rest is just guess work. The fact that Ray said "the gods aren't finished with you yet" could be seen as foreshadowing for where the hound might end up. It makes no difference if the hound himself is religious or not. You never know...if he ended up working for the Faith...they might convert him. lol I just don't see how he'd realistically go back to King's Landing unless something lured him there or someone forced him there.

dany would just burn the sparrow down with Drogon. lol That's pretty much how I see any of her Westeros encounters going. lol Of course, if she wants the people to LOVE her there will be more to it than that!

Brienne/Hound/Jaime/Starks etc..... - I really think it's going to become less about houses in the future and more of the living vs. the dead. Obviously that's not a stretch to say in an episode where Davos flat out says it. But that's where I could see our favorite characters fighting on the same side. It's how I always envisioned it. We'll see what happens. Still a few plot elements to unfold before we get to the END OF DAYS scenarios. lol

Richard, I love how you always do your "am i the only one" propositions. lol Jaime has become a likable character intentionally since season 3. It happened in the books too. Once you get to know him and his plight you start to sympathize with him. Hence why I grouped him into "characters we like" above. (Exclude Brienne for you lol) That said...I'm not really rooting for Jaime/Cersei to make it. I think she's not good for him and his redemption arc. Though...I've always said that the show has made Cersei more of a sympathetic character than the books do (where she's an outright villain).

I'm going to plead the 5th on the Brienne/Jaime matchup because there's still more potential book stuff to happen. I don't think Brienne would want to kill Jaime though after their bonding experience. The Lannisters backed Roose, not Ramsay...i think loyalties could change due to that. But you seemed to have come to the same conclusion I did. lol


Mike V. said...

You listing all of the family squabbles just reinforces my theory yet's going to be less about families in the future. (i.e. Dany wants to break the wheel...the White Walkers are forcing that wheel to be broken, etc....) I think when all is said and done Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran, Jaime, Tyrion, Dany, Hound, Brienne possibly even the iron born....they're all on the same side. As for families....they (media/critics) keep talking about the old guard vs. the new generation. Blackfish might be the last of the old guard. We see Jon forming new alliances, we see Dany rounding up her troops....meanwhile Blackfish refuses to end a war that is already over. There might be something to all of that. I'm just not smart enough to figure it out right now. lol

*************************************BOOK STUFF**************************************

Yeah I had given up on it too (LS)...though last off-season some people were theorizing that they were holding off on too much resurrection stuff until Jon was brought back......the Beric thing was at least proving it was possible in this that at least had to be shown previously.....but LS was just one too many at the time. could be even more shocking. The problem is....once media outlets assumed the show wasn't doing LS...they kinda started openly talking about it. I wonder how much show fans will remember from those discussions

Mike V. said...

Travel Time - Yeah I mentioned in the recap the showrunners are aware of this and made the decision that they can't be restrained on travel times to tell their stories. So each storyline could be taking place over different time periods. GRRM even ran into this when writing book 3-5 too I think. He had to write huge disclaimers in the beginning of the books. lol

So like arya's story is happening over days while Jon Snow recruiting his army is taking place over weeks.....The iron born stuff possibly even taking longer for travel and all of that.

It certainly would be interesting if Brienne talked Jaime into helping reclaim winterfell.

******* BOOK STUFF**********

Perhaps with a little extra persuasion from other forces it could happen. As we know B brings J in front of LS and that's a current cliffhanger in the books. If J promises to help bring honor back to the might get him out of his predicament. If they do that storyline that is. lol

Anonymous said...

I"m surprised you're not going wow, that's right, the Boltons cut his hand off--and oh by the way affected his entire life. Really changed him in many ways some good some not so good. Anyway, I'm thinking this is a big deal to Jamie and Brienne knows it, hence her sword. Didn't he already save her once. I don't think any other motivation will be necessary BUT, yea there could be some extra motivation per your scenario. The more I think about it I'm thinking it's a pretty good bet for Jamie to help the Starks. Another thing is that Casterly Rock is not a source of gold anymore, so he's got to find a way to make a living.

I like to theorize and so that's why I'm considering the possibilities of who aligns with whom.

LOL on me commenting on Brienne--she didn't fight this ep and wasn't really a part of it so not much to say. The next few eps will likely have lots of fun material.

LOL on Dany burning the Sparrow--EXACTLY why she's a villian to many. You didn't respond to my post on her being a villian but I suspect you see it too. We talk about how she may not like Tyrion and that's a fair question. What happens if Tyrion doesn't like her tyranical methods? He sees both sides of the coin, she's blind to them.

They say there's a BIG surprise coming, what if it's a Yara/Danny match up-lol???


Mike V. said...

Sorry Richard, I didn't have a chance to respond to the posts on last week's threads. I gotta get back to MJ too who had a late post. I'll get to it!

Jaime did save Brienne against the Bear after losing his hand, yes. Yeah...I like in the end that Jaime would side with the Starks. It falls in line with his transformation. Good point on the gold deficiency at Casterly Rock.

I know you like to theorize. I do too!

The comment about Brienne this week was The Hound saying he was defeated by a woman. lol But yes...there will definitely be more Brienne in the eps to come.

I think Dany and Tyrion are going to be a good checks and balance system. Dany will want to take take take with force and Tyrion will school her on Westerosi politics. We'll see how it goes!

LOL on Yara/Dany matchup. Surely they won't go that far with it! But you never know.

Mike V. said...

Interesting Theory I'm's highly liked on the EW recap and I heard it on the After the Thrones on HBO - There's a chance that wasn't Arya who got stabbed. Why would Arya be walking around without Needle? I guess the theory would be that it's Jaqen wearing an Arya mask? I don't know about it. Can't they only be the faces of the dead? Or I guess if you're truly no one you can be anyone? I dunno.

I think I like it better if she goes to the acting troupe for help and for passage back to Westeros. Guess we'll see!

Anonymous said...

LOL on Arya being Jaqen. Yea I think they've got to be dead first, just look at the room of faces. I can see Arya going to the acting troupe but honestly if she died I'd be good with it too. I hate to see anyone throw their life away on hate and vengeance.


Mike V. said...

The only reason I question the dead thing is that I think the masks are only worn by people who are not quite "NO ONE". The true faceless men may not need to wear masks. I don't really know that for sure.

Really don't think Arya will die that easily. lol I've already commented that we disagree on how interesting Arya's story is. While I wouldn't root for someone to be consumed with vengeance in real life, it is an interesting story to me to follow Arya down this path. Plus, we don't know where here story will go in the long run. She's acquired survival skills along the way that may assist her in more then just killing Cersei, Walder Frey and whoever else. She might be able to assist those who will fight for the living in the great war to come. And I don't know who wouldn't root for Arya in that scenario.

Anonymous said...

Of all the characters I suspect Jamie has grown the most but an argument could be made for Dany coming from a position of a naive girl to a full on conquerer. I can't tell that Arya has grown from the girl who would fight Joffrey and that's ok. She will almost assuredly not die this time and will have some place in the unfolding drama.

For one, I would like to see her meet Sandor since she didn't mercy kill him. It might help her grow.


Anonymous said...

There's a LOT of assumption that Tyrion's efforts will be wanted going forward. What if she offs Tyrion? Probably won't, but it's not for sure either way.

Dorne. LOL, that makes zero sense so I could see that-lol.

Tried to post the above yesterday.


Anonymous said...

I'm beginning to doubt we'll get the Clegane bowl re Cersei. I'm thinking now that the Sparrow needs Tommen to be a Baratheon. Cersei is not really a threat as long as the Sparrow has the King and Queen on his side. If Tommen were exposed then the Sparrow would look bad too.

Check out this shot of Brienne from the upcoming ep while in a boat. I'm thinking she's looking at you know who on the river!!


MJ said...

Jamie - I always liked Jamie even before his supposed redemption. Technically - with the exception of not owning up to how Bran fell - he has not done much wrong. Oath breaker ? Perhaps - but it wound up being a good thing to kill that King. Other then sleeping with his sister all he has done is follow orders and act loyally to his family. And they all do that - act loyally to their respective families even if they don't agree with their heads of the family. I think he deserves a goo ending. Cersei on the other hand is evil. While she also does what she does for her family - she goes out of her way to manipulate and hurt people while Jamie does not.

Ah on Ian McShane. Thought he was a character that had already appeared.

Never saw Deadwood - did not have HBO while it was on. On my to do list.

Boltons and Freys need to go down !!! LOL And Ramsey needs to die painfully.

Mike V. said...

Arya running into the Hound would be great as she did say she took him off his list. They were great scene partners too. Loved it in the book as well.

I think there will be friction between Dany and Tyrion when she returns as his decisions will not have been ideally what she will have wanted to do. But, maybe his decisions will end up being good in the long run which will when her over. I've seen reviews where Tyrion's decisions have been noted as poor and that things may not be looking good for him when Dany returns. I don't know if that's the intention of the writers. I think they're working off book on this one and this is sometimes what their writing looks like. lol

Dorne's allegiance to Dany is a big part of the books....granted they have shown no such connection in the show so I agree it makes zero sense. But it's also the closest point of Westeros to Slaver's Bay.

We'll see on Clegane Bowl...I think a trial by combat is happening regardless!

I'll have to check out the picture on my phone. That site doesn't work at work. lol

Mike V. said...

Jaime/Cersei - Agreed MJ. Of course to quote Ramsay...."If you think this is going to have a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." lol

Deadwood is great...though it was cut short after 3 seasons...and the cast was so good that they got scooped up by every show in existence (Justified, LOST, Sons of Anarchy, etc....) so they haven't been able to get back together to do a movie to wrap things up. There are rumors that it might happen still. But, I'm still waiting for a Quantum Leap movie too. lol

YES to Freys and Boltons!

Anonymous said...

Since Sandor saw the Brothers I'm thinking he's not far from Riverrun and will likely run into Brienne the next ep.

The next ep is 8 and 9 is usually the big battle. So, I'm going with a lot of set up next ep for the ep 9 battle. Which means I could see Brienne being in the middle of a lot of negotiation. She's uniquely positioned to be accepted by Jamie and Blackfish. She also knows Sandor and has no love of the Frey's. And I think she kicked some of the Brothers in the past, so they'll know her. Which means the next ep could be a whole lot of Brienne. I'm just preparing myself for it--lol. Honestly, if this is done right it could make SOME, only some of her stuff understandable.

ON the idea of old battles vs new battles related to old vs new generations. I don't see a clear cut there. For example, Dany is fighting the old battles--ie taking back her kingdom. That's really the same as Blackfish and everybody else. Yara wants to take over. The Night King wants to take over. All of the battles in Westeros are about controlling all or part of Westeros--it's just axiomatic. The fact that a new generation is continuing the battling seems more correct. Dany says she wants to break the wheel so that could be a different final objective. BUT, she'll be battling to take over just as did her forefathers. Otherwise she wouldn't need an army and dragons.

Dorne--LOL, yea that's right but I really didn't think the TV show would go there. That would be funny--Dany, Yara and the Dorne girls taking on Westeros.

I've still not heard where you guys are on the question of Dany being a villian as she invades Westeros????


Mike V. said...

Richard - I responded, as I said I would, on last week's recap about Dany being a villain. I'll copy it over here. and respond to these comments too. lol

Mike V. said...

From last week's thread:

"Sorry for the delay on these comments...we can continue the discussion in the new episode thread.

I think Dany may go in with the mindset of conquering but it may quickly change when she finds out what's going on over there with the White Walker threat and the dead marching down. I've just always assumed in the end we'd see all our favorites battling on the same side. Granted, that doesn't seem to be GRRM's maybe we'll be conflicted in who is pitted against whom. That said...if the Starks are up against Dany, I'm rooting for the Starks. lol I just don't see it going that way. I brought up the "break the wheel" analogy in my posts on the new episode as could apply to people from different houses working together for a cause.

We shall see.

@MJ - You know the rule MJ...if you don't see someone die...they're probably not dead! :) But yeah there's been lots of theories around Benjen from a book perspective. He might not be the character "coldhands" in the book (GRRM has confirmed this previously)....but it was a fan theory and it's the way they're going in the show. He's not quite dead, not quite alive I He's half wight or half white walker...i dunno!

Agree on everything else and we can catch up in the new episode thread! "

I'll comment on new stuff in a bit

Mike V. said...

Hound - Yeah I'm guessing he's in the Riverrun area as well.

WARNING TO MJ and OTHER SHOW WATCHERS: stay away from TV Guide if you don't want to potentially be spoiled about the things Richard and I are speculating might happen from the book. They're just flat out talking about it. lol

Good point on Brienne being uniquely positioned to talk to both Jaime and the Blackfish. Perhaps they can work out some kind of deal. I don't think Brienne has come into contact with the brotherhood before (on the show). She ran into some of Robb's troops who were trying to retrieve Jaime at the end of season 2 and she killed them.

Fair points on generational wars. It was articulated far better than I put it when I was watching/listening to the discussion.

Dorne - Well there has to be a reason they still kept that storyline SOMEWHAT alive, right? I'm glad they haven't revisited it since the beginning of the season but it's going to have to come back at some point.

Anonymous said...

BTW, meant to say it was great seeing Bron back.


Mike V. said...

Agreed Richard. So I've heard conflicting statements. Either he is only contracted for 4 episodes per season or he's not allowed to film with Lena Headey due to a former off screen relationship gone sour. lol

Also, I just realized I posted the info below on the wrong thread yesterday lol Was originally 2 posts. I've consolidated:

Names of the Last 2 episodes...potentially spoilery of when things we know about will happen but not really. Also finale is supersized to 69 minutes.

Additional warning: I had not read the entire post before putting that link up there. James Hibberd freely discusses a name that might not mean anything to Show watchers only. Even though he discusses it as a bogus episode could be somewhat spoilery if it ends up happening.

So I'd say stop reading at this paragraph if you want to remain in the dark on that one:

"Both episodes are directed by Miguel Sapochnik, who helmed last year’s acclaimed “Hardhome.”"

Anonymous said...

Ep 9 title, it's ONLY what we've been saying now for weeks-lol. And one reason I've been thinking Brienne change Jaime's direction.

The title of EP8 is interesting to me re Arya's fate.


Mike V. said...

Yep...I gotta think they named it that based on fan speculation. Someone on Reddit came up with a good name for the episode that would've been multi-layered "The Bastard of Winterfell". But, it works for me!

Yes, Ep 8 definitely sounds like we'll be focusing on Arya a bit. If episode 9 is strictly the battle episode then 8 and 10 will have all the other story conclusions for the season. But, I don't think the ep title necessarily implies Arya will "become" no one. lol

Anonymous said...

I suspect ep 8 will

1. Have Brienne get Jaime to go North. I think Jaime's is the largest army.
2. Cersei's trial start
3. Arya's Bravos departure
4. Littlefinger/Sansa/Jon start to come together
5. Bolton prep
6. Yara/Dany meet, maybe?


Mike V. said...

I really think the Knights of the Vale will be the army that comes in to save the Stark side in the battle against Ramsay. I don't think Brienne is going to be able to end the siege. But maybe she will. I don't even think we'll see Littlefinger until near the end of ep 9. Kind of trying to make us forget that Sansa sent that letter. Reminds me of when Gandalf went to get the riders of Rohan in 2 Towers.

I think dany will arrive to Meereen but she's going to have to deal with Tyrion....Yara will probably show up in ep 10 if I had to guess.

*********************************BOOK SPECULATION*****************************

I don't really recall the Riverrun siege in the books...but apparently Blackfish escaped through some back door and down the river. There's speculation that maybe he will be able to get Brienne and Pod out that back door. And of course....that would lead to Brienne running into the Brotherhood eventually and LS. I don't think Brienne makes it back to Jon's fight this season.

I think it was basically an excuse to get her back to riverrun for the LS plot. I don't think Riverrun troops will be able to help with the battle either. But the Knights of the Vale are rested and ready having sit out the war of the 5 kings.

Anonymous said...

Agree on Knights of the Vale--they will show up and make some difference.

I may be hoping for Jaime. But, I can't see Blackfish just leaving either.

It is looking better for LS.

I've been pondering the 3 big surprises that D&D have talked about with Hodor being #2. There are at least 2 more major surprises that could be upcoming before the end of the series.


Mike V. said...

Look up asoiaf wiki and blackfish and see how this plot ended in the books. Could be similar.

I thought shireen was the other surprise. The 3rd won't happen until the end of the series.

Being brief. On my phone lol

Anonymous said...

I'm kind of thinking the TV show will differ some from the books here? That he'll not run.

For one thing Brienne is involved on the TV show from Sansa herself. That would seem to be a big deal for him--Sansa.

Maybe I'm giving Brienne too much cred here, that she can do so much? I know, kind of strange for me--lol.

Surprises--I thought they were well documented as they related to the meetings between GRRM and D&D. I thought for sure the biggest was Jon. I thought the 2nd was Hodor as per EW??


Mike V. said...

Surprises - There were only 2 things that shocked the show runners that have been revealed in the show that wasn't in the books yet. It was Shireen and Hodor. Those were ones that they clearly came out and said GRRM told them about that. Jon's resurrection isn't that much of a shocker as it was pretty expected in the books and show...and how it happens will probably differ in the books. They said the 3rd thing that shocked them happens near the end of the series. I'll find the article again but that's what they said.

Blackfish/Brienne - I don't want to talk too much about what happens in the book in our "open forum" section but I wouldn't rule it out. Brienne being there may be all the more motivation for him to do what he did in the books. The fact that Edmure has returned and hasn't said a word yet means I think he still has a role to play. And he did have a role to play in the books too. We'll see what happens. But you raise a good point about Brienne informing Blackfish about Sansa....and she could update him on Arya too.

Mike V. said...

Here's the article about the 3 shocks. In short - I was right lol But feel free to read them again!

Anonymous said...

That's the article I was talking about. So, yea Hodor was the second.

The third and last is the question.

I think it's related to Jon? But, in a way it would be surprising they would wait for the very end for that?


Mike V. said...

Again, these are twists that blew away the show I don't think it's the big Jon reveal. I'll explain more below in book speculation to now allude to anything out in the open. But I think this 3rd thing is something we're not even thinking about hence why the show runners were really surprised by it.


They had read the books and GRRM's main question to them before he agreed to let them adapt the series was "Who is Jon Snow's mother?" They answered it correctly and got the show.

Anonymous said...

******************book spec***********************************

Exactly what I recall. And why I'm thinking it won't wait until the end. Lots has been eluded to it the last 2 seasons. That is, the 3rd item per the EW article says it won't be revealed until the very end so I'm thinking not the R+L=J thing since so much already revealed.

I don't know obviously. But am wondering if it's something that is even a bigger shocker?


Mike V. said...

Yeah...with the TOJ scene earlier this season I just assumed it would be this season, but I wouldn't be surprised if they give GRRM one more chance to get his book out with the reveal and do it next season. There has to be more Bran stuff this season though so we'll see. I still think that wall is coming down in the finale!

No telling if it's a big game changing shocker or just a shocker in the ways that Shireen and Hodor were. Something like the White Walkers are the good guys would be a game changer. But Jaime Lannister regrows a hand would be surprising but not changing the entire course of the show. (obviously it would be more significant than that just trying to show extremes here lol)

Come on GRRM finish the damn books!! lol