Monday, June 13, 2016

Game of Thrones: Season 6 Episode 8 - No One

Hello friends and welcome back to our Game of Thrones discussion.  This episode wrapped up some of our season plots while probably moving things into place for the finale for others.  If I had to guess I would say we're getting a single storyline next weekend but I do not know that for sure.  There were some fantastic moments in this episode and we'll discuss them all. 

A quick word on book spoilers:  I haven't really had to mention this too much this season, but with this episode I feel a little more obligated.  I have read all of the books and a couple storylines have been revisiting plots from previous books.  I will only discuss what has been revealed from the book plots (calling out show differences along the way) and try my best to keep from spoiling potential future stories they may be setting up.  As always, we may dive into book discussion in the comments, but they will be noted as **Book Discussion** prior to the commentary.  

Let's dive in! 

Discussion Points

Riverrun Siege

The siege storyline seemed to be all but wrapped up by the end of this episode.  Brienne and Podrick arrived and requested to meet with Jaime Lannister.  The reunions in this episode were fantastic.  

  • First up Podrick and Bronn have a great discussion outside of Jaime's tent.   Bronn spoke about Jaime/Brienne's intense relationship and how they both might be into each other.  Pod talks about how Brienne is training Pod the proper ways to fight.  Bronn offered Pod some "improper" tips calling back how he won his trial by combat in season 1 "without honor".  Pod welcomed the tips.  
  • Jaime and Brienne have a touching reunion that was masked in the tension of being on opposite sides of a war.  There was conflict with Sansa as Jaime is committed to Cersei and Cersei wants her dead.  Yet, he was proud of Brienne for fulfilling her oath.  Jaime even got disgusted with having to argue politics.  They came up with a plan to try to end the siege without bloodshed and allow the Tully army to march North while Jaime takes the castle.  
  • There were a couple potentially important reminders to Brienne's sword Oathkeeper in this episode.  First it was touching that she tried to give it back and that Jaime told her the sword is hers.  But, the fact that there's a huge lion on the hilt reminds us that she's carrying a Lannister sword (even if we know it was forged from Stark Valyrian steel).  It may or may not come into play in the near future.  
  • Brienne was almost brought to tears at the thought of having to fight Jaime if the plan unfolded in an unideal fashion.  
  • The Blackfish meeting pretty much went down as I expected.  He's too stubborn to lay down his guard.  But, while he initially dismissed Brienne and the fact that he brought word from Sansa he eventually read the letter and was a tiny bit conflicted as he was reminded of Catelyn.  Brienne asked Pod to get a raven to Sansa telling her that they failed to acquire the Tully forces.  
  • Meanwhile, Jaime figured out his way into the castle.  The fact that Edmure has been back on the show, but hadn't yet said a word should've clued us all into the fact that he had a part to play in ending the siege.  That, and well, this is pretty much exactly how it happened in the book!  This scene was fantastic.  Jaime couldn't have been more civil and kind to Edmure, but by the end OLD JAIME came out as he professed his love for Cersei and the fact that he'd do anything for her.   Okay, actually I need to correct myself. THAT is a little different from the book.  Cersei and Jaime are not really on good terms at this point in the book story and it all stemmed from something that was cut out of the show when Tyrion left King's Landing.  I won't go back into it, but it is interesting that they used that Cersei motivation to bring out Jaime's slight dark side.     
  • We learn that Edmure has a male heir that was born of Rosalyn Frey on the night of the Red Wedding.  It was the last night he saw his wife as he was held captive after the slaughter of the Stark army.  He had never met his son either, but Jaime promised to arrange that meeting if he cooperated.  If he didn't cooperate he would catapult the son over the castle walls and slaughter every Tully he needs to to get back to Cersei.  
  • Jaime also spoke to admiring Catelyn Stark and the love for her children which mirrors Cersei's love for hers.  They would do anything for their children.  As we saw Cat did release Jaime with Brienne to try and get her daughters back.  She even put her life on the line trying to save Robb Stark at the Red Wedding.  Granted, they both ended up dying but still!   
  • If Edmure hesitated on helping out Jaime it was glossed over in the show.  He wasn't offered much of a choice.  As lord of Riverrun he approached the drawbridge and requested to be let in.  Blackfish tried to prevent the soldiers from complying, but they cannot refuse the Lord of the house.  Once Edmure entered he requested that they stand down and let the Lannister/Frey army in.  He also requested the Blackfish be found and put in chains.  
  • Blackfish was able to secure the escape of Brienne and Pod through a river exit.  Book Note: Brienne and Pod were not at River run in the book version and actually this is how the Blackfish escaped.  But Brienne was in the Riverlands during this time in the books, so I've been assuming this plot was a way to get her where she needs to be for that story.  We shall see if that happens.  
  • We learn from a Lannister soldier that the Blackfish did not survive.  He did tell Brienne he would go down swinging and seemed happy to do it.  While we should always assume that if we don't see the death it didn't happen according to normal television rules, I think this is an exception.  It doesn't seem like the show has any further use of Brynden "Blackfish" Tully.  RIP Blackfish, you were an awesome character! 
  • We have one final shot from this storyline as Jaime spots Brienne and Pod headed down the river.  While he should've called for their capture, he simply waives and Brienne waives back.   Why can't those 2 just work things out!? 
The Brotherhood 

Well, I'll admit I was a little confused when we saw the Brotherhood Without Banners taking innocent lives last week.  It wasn't in line with the books so this episode cleared that bit up for me.  But, it added further confusion as it's a little different than the next time we encountered the Brotherhood in the book timeline.  Let's discuss.
  • We caught up with some of the men that were involved in the slaughter last week of Septon Ray and his followers.  They were messing around and the Hound just rolled in and took the axe to all of them in quick fashion.  Best quote of the night, "You're shit at dying."  The hound was looking for their leader who goes by the name of Lem Lemoncloak.  (They don't say it in the show, but they did talk about his yellow cloak)
  • The Hound then stumbles upon our old friends of the Brotherhood including Thoros of Myr and Ser Beric Dondarrion (the 6 time risen knight who was killed by the hound in a trial by combat in season 3).  
  • It turns out that these men that killed the septon and his people were not following orders of the brotherhood, but acting on their own.  So, they were being punished for their actions by hanging.  A negotiation took place where The Hound was allowed to hang 2 of them including Lem Lemoncloak.        
  • Thoros and Beric tried to recruit The Hound and talked about how they are there for a higher purpose and that the Hound has a chance to help.   They started alluding to the great war to come in the North.   They discussed how Beric must've been brought back for a reason, and the Hound must've won his trial by combat for a reason.  
  • The Hound's response was still to be determined at the end of the episode, but I'll assume he joins up as he has nothing better to do.  
  • We're off book here, but I hold out hope that this is leading to a really crazy book story and maybe we've just arrived a little earlier in the timeline of said book events.  That's all I can say at this point! 
King's Landing

I guess we still have to talk about this plot.  It's probably my least favorite story going on right now, but this week actually seemed to be heading somewhere.  
  • Cousin Lancel Lannister came with the Faith to try and seize Cersei and bring her back to the Sept.  Cersei argued that she was allowed to stay at the Red Keep until her trial.  Lancel indicated that no such promise was made.  When he threatened to use force, the Mountain removed the head of one of the Faith with his bare hands.   Cersei seemed all too confident that she would triumph in a trial by combat to get out of standing trial.  
  • Cersei entered the throne room when she heard an announcement from the King was coming.  She was not personally summoned.  Kevan Lannister, the hand of the king and Tywin's brother, refused to let Cersei approach the throne and stand by her son.  
  • Tommen announced a royal decree that Cersei and Loras would stand trial at the Sept for their crimes on the first day of the Festival of the Mother.  But, the big twist was that he announced that Trial By Combat would no longer be allowed in King's Landing.   Instead, they will be standing trial in front of 7 Septons.  
  • Qyburn whispered in Cersei's ear about a rumor she had told him about.  Qyburn said it is much more than a rumor.  This must've been an off screen rumor as I don't recall them discussing anything of the sort.  There has been speculation by fans based on other things we've seen this season on what actions Cersei might take.  But, I don't want to bring it up here and ruin a surprise in case it's true!  I'll happily discuss in comments under our "speculation" warnings.  

It's been several episodes since we've last seen Tyrion and crew back at Meereen.  Time to catch up! 
  • We see the Red Priestesses preaching the word that Dany is essentially the world's savior and that the people of Meereen are in good hands.   Normal activity has returned to the city and Tyrion is quite pleased with himself.  
  • We learn that Varys is leaving on a secret mission to return to Westeros and forge alliances for when Dany returns.  In the books Varys never went to Essos, but he was not seen much after Tyrion's escape from King's Landing.  I say "much" because he certainly did make his presence known at least one time.  I wonder if this is heading to that story eventually.  
  • We revisited the insanely awesome chemistry that Tyrion, Grey Worm and Missendi have together when it's just the 3 of them.  The last time this happened, things were tense and Tyrion could not get the other 2 to loosen up.  This time he got through to them.  They all eventually were drinking and telling awful jokes.  But they were so bad it was hilarious.  And then Missendi asking for more drinks was great.  Of course, no one is allowed to have a good time on this show for too long.  The Bells tolled.  
  • Ships are arriving.  I assumed it was Yara and the Iron born, but no it's the masters coming to claim their property.  They have laid siege on Meereen and are setting the city on fire.  The whole scene actually reminded me of the original book story.  When Dany fled on drogon from the arena, the city broke out the verge of war.  It seems that whole story was just delayed a whole season.  It was a cliffhanger in book 5 so we still didn't know how it would exactly pan out.  Here, we have a sneaky idea that Yara and crew will probably roll in for assistance.  But, that's not all! 
  • Tyrion was forced to admit he failed with his peacekeeping tactics.  Grey Worm was pretty ticked off at him too not allowing him to speak of any more plans.  Grey Worm said they would stay holed up in the pyramid and wait for the fight to come to them.  
  • They hear/feel a loud crash on the pyramid.  They prepare for the worst, but no worries.  It's just Dany coming in for a landing on Drogon.  She's back!  Let's get this show on the road Khaleesi!  

We last left Arya stabbed by the Waif and struggling to stay alive.  We had theories that the Theater Troupe would be involved in saving her.  And, well, we were right! 
  • We watched Lady Crane give her monologue as Cersei mourning over the loss of Joffrey again.  She speaks of vengeance to Sansa and Tyrion.  The audience is in tears reminding us one more time that the perceptions in Westeros/Essos of the events of the great houses don't exactly line up how they should.  
  • Lady Crane comes off stage to discover a bleeding Arya.  Crane is able to treat her wounds and gives a story that she learned to do such a thing by bandaging up her lovers after jealous rages and stabbings.  Good times.  She offered Arya passage to Pentos and to join the theater troupe.  Arya states that she'd be bringing danger with her as someone wants her dead.  (Or should I say No One?)  
  • Arya takes Milk of the Poppy and gets a good healing rest.  But, the Waif finds her and slays Lady Crane as always was planned.  But the many faced god demands another face and The Waif will not stop and until Arya's is removed.  Arya jumps out the window. 
  • What ensues seemed like something out of a Terminator movie.  Was it me or did The Waif appear to be acting just like a T-1000?  That robotic grin, those arms when she was running.  It was still a very intense chase scene.  Along the way, Arya reinjured herself falling down a flight of stairs.  The waif is able to follow a trail of blood to Arya's hideout.  Arya retrieved Needle and extinguished a candle.  Arya puts her "blind" training to good use.  The next time we see her it is in the room of faces where she has placed the Waif's face.   Jaqen admitted to sending the waif after her, but also acknowledged that Arya succeeded in becoming no one.  
  • Arya did not agree.  She instead told Jaqen that she is Arya Stark of Winterfell and she is going home.  Jaqen smiles and nods.  YES!!!!  

So as expected, I guess we have to assume that what Arya gained out of this trip was learning some additional defense/attack skills.  But, maybe it was more than that.  Maybe she truly wanted to leave her identity behind, but through her training and through what she learned during those plays she gained new purpose in bringing redemption to the Starks.  So, will she return home to reunite with Jon and Sansa?  That seems a little too good to be true.  But, we are approaching the end of this series so it wouldn't surprise me.  All I can say is I am ready for the last 2 episodes of this season!

But until then, let's discuss further in the comments.  Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and I'll see you next week!   


Anonymous said...

Arya--the ONLY thing she did well was use Needle which she learned in Westeros from a few guys. Even my daughter thought the Arya stuff got stupid with her getting out of bed then running like a Jane Bond agent--lol. It was very predictable. Could have been done MUCH better. I've been saying for a couple seasons now that she won't become a faceless man--it just seemed predictable.

I was wrong and disappointed about Riverrun. Although I didn't think Jammie and Brienne would fight. To me, the biggest thing was what Jamie said mothers would do. He included burning down cities. Which seemed kind of random then I thought about what Qyborn told Cersei. Is she thinking about burning down KL? If so, will Jamie kill her as he did Aerys? AFter he just said he loved her so much. It appears Jamie is headed back South but I really wanted him to go North. And NO LS action, disappointed again.

I have no idea if Tyrion will be in trouble by Dany now. AFter the BRavos stuff who knows which way the show will go-lol. BTW in watching with my daughter the second the ceiling rattled we both said, Dany's back. While the show tried to make it suspenseful.

I don't want to beat on this ep too bad and sound like it was awful. But, it was certainly weak to us and predictable.


Mike V. said...

Richard---you disappointed in an episode that I liked? Unfathomable! lol

Arya - I think we've all been saying she wouldn't become a faceless man. I had been saying it would've been disappointing if she did. When she hid needle, it was pretty clear she wasn't ready to let go of her identity. But, I think that's what this journey was meant to symbolize. She didn't want to be Arya Stark anymore...and while she improved her fighting skills she also figured out who she wanted to be...and it might be why Jaqen kept hitting her when she wouldn't say she's Arya Stark. Obviously the whole running while injured stuff was a little hard to swallow...but she did get injured in the process...and she was no james bond agent...she was struggling to get to her destination. I think it worked. The Waif being like a terminator was what was ridiculous to me, but I still enjoyed it.

Riverrun - I can say I totally called it. lol But, it also was very much like the book so I'm not sure how you could be disappointed with that or even call it predictable. Do you think show watchers would've predicted that Jaime would threaten to catapult Edmure's child (conceived during the red wedding) into River Run to get him to hand over the keys to the castle? I don't even think show watchers would've even considered Edmure being the Lord of River Run until they mentioned it on the show.

But the fact that Jaime and Brienne had a touching moment followed by Jaime requoting his big line in the pilot and showing the evil that cersei brings out of him made this an amazing showcase for that character in this episode.

Meereen - Yeah it was pretty obvious Dany was back. I don't think they were trying to hide that too hard. There may not be too much time for Dany to get too angry.

Some of the stuff you discussed I'm going to cover in speculation....and then BOOK stuff.

****** SPECULATION (not known book spoilers..just theorizing based on what we've seen ******

Burning down KL....yeah...that's what I was alluding to what I think might happen in the recap. I didn't want to discuss too much. In Bran's vision we saw King's Landing burning in Wildfire...when the Mad King was saying Burn them all...but we know that didn't happen in the past. Maybe Cersei is going to use wildfire on the city....and Jaime alluding to it also added to the almost confirmation. Maybe not the city but maybe the sept??? But the fact that when dany had her vision of a scorched King's Landing in season 2 makes me wonder if the entire city will burn and it won't be dragon related.

More I'm hoping we get a resolution to tower of joy in episode 10 as well. Surely we'll see more Bran....but I also wonder if the show will give GRRM one more chance to do his big reveal in the books.

******* BOOK STUFF**************

Yeah, this episode made me think that LS might not be happening. At this point in the books Beric was dead and replaced by LS. But, maybe we're getting an origin story...maybe she's still on the way and we'll get reintroduced to Arya's direwolf Nymeria.

The fact that Thoros and Beric were talking about being alive for a higher purpose made me think this could be setup for Beric only being a live to pass on his "gift of rebirth" to LS. It would be a pretty crazy shocking thing to happen in episode 10. The thing is....keeping the return of MF to Belfast a secret to film her part as LS would be tough to keep under wraps...unless they did a secret filming location for one scene to hype up a return for next season. I could see that being very much the case.

******end book stuff*****

Anyway, I enjoyed the episode. But it's always fine to nitpick at certain things. lol

Anonymous said...

With Jaimee likely heading South that means Petyr's troups are increasing in importance.

Glad that Brienne mentioned the threat from the North. It registered a little with Jaime but I was hoping for more.


So, will Jaime kill Cersei, his great love?


Mike V. said... I mentioned last week I never expected the Tullys or the Lannisters to help in the battle up north. I figured it was all the Knights of the Vale. I'm sure next week you'll say it was predictable when they show up at the end of the battle. lol

I'm sure eventually everyone will get wrapped up in the battle coming from the North.

****BOOK Discussion/Speculation*********

I dunno....while I have some doubts on LS happening now, I still have hope and if that's the case Jaime can't make it back to KL just yet. lol I don't think Jaime is going to kill Cersei this season. But according to the full prophecy in the books...she will die by strangulation by a younger brother (which could technically be Tyrion or Jaime). Of the books...Jaime and Cersei pretty much hate each other at this point. Show Jaime doesn't know Cersei was sharing her bed with other Lannisters. lol (and in the books she was trying to do even more)

So...I guess it could happen. I had held out hope that Arya would kill Cersei, but I did forget about that prophecy.

**************Still Book discussion and more potentially spoilery speculation***************

So the one big scene Varys had in the books that hasn't happened on the show was the epilogue to Dance with Dragons when he shows up and takes out Pycelle and Kevan Lannister in King's Landing....and decrees that Dany is the true heir to the 7 kingdoms. I wonder if that's where he's headed??

Maybe more realistically, he's headed to Dorne to create an alliance at the Southern Tip which is the closest point for Dany to get to Westeros.

Of course, there still are people speculating that Varys conveniently left Meereen when those ships showed up to attack. So, maybe he's behind all of that? It really doesn't make sense for him to be behind it though.

MJ said...

Anti-climactic is all I can say. Arya killed the waif - we did not see it. Backfish dueled someone and died - we did not see it. Dany rides the Dragon into town and lands on the pyramid - we did not see it. Disappointing in a way. Kinda knew this ep would be moving pieces into place but since they had conflicts going on thought they should have shown them

Jamie was very clever - getting Edmure to go in and order them to stand down. If Blackfish had listened to Brienne then Sansa would have had those men - but now they are prisoners. Cersei really will be Jamie's down fall. Sigh. And Cersei is screwed ot that there is no Trial by Combat. Which - fanatics or not - King was right that that is just a way for the rich to avoid justice. Was very surprised to not see Margaery there to enjoy Cersei getting hers though. Awesome with Mountain tering that guys head off !!

Assuming this rumor might be something that can hurt the Sparrow ? Don't know what else it could be.

Read the final 2 episodes are actually slightly over an hour running time.

Pod/Bron was fun. Totally forgot about Pod's ummm talents lets call it from the time Tyrion bought him a whore for the night. LOL

Surprised to see Dandorrien again. Fun with Hound annoyed he could only hang them rather then slaughter them

I had to admit when the ships first pulled into Mereen I too assumed it was the Irons come to parlay with Dany. Even after Missandre said it was the slavers I thought she was mistaken.

Arya - I always felt that she would fail to become 'no one' so to me this whole storyline was a waste of time. I would rather have seen Arya traveling the countryside and killing off the peeps on her list. Just saying. And having just had surgery I can say how ridiculous it was that with merely a bandage - not stitches - and a good night sleep she could get up after jumping from the window - not to mention all that running and crashing about. I know movies are famous for people doing stuff when they are injured too and are unrealistic - but this was really silly.

Edmure - you are correct Mike - did not realize he was the Lord. LOL I was not disappointed in River Run. Just sad that Jamie is heading for a not so good end is what I keep feeling. I enjoyed the Jamie/Brienne iteraction - they are on opposite sides and both think they are on the correct side. Lannisters are evil - but they are following the Kings decrees most of the time for Jamie any way. Opposite sides but with deep respect for each other.

Mike V. said...

Wow...guess I'm outnumbered here. lol I don't know...sometimes the best scenes are when moments are left to the imagination. Showing Arya kill the Waif in the dark (to pay off her blindness training) would've been difficult to do. Though...I did think to myself when they got in there "Who had time to light that candle??" lol I'm sure some of the stuff you mentioned not seeing is due to budget reasons...we do have the largest battle in Thrones history coming next week.

Yeah...Jaime pretty much symbolically is living through Brienne by letting her move on and do what she needs to do...meanwhile he's falling back into the Cersei yes she could be his downfall.

That's a fair assumption with the "rumor". lol I think Richard and I (and the internet) pretty much figured out what it could be. It's nothing from the books. Just clues planted throughout the season and series. In case it's meant to be a surprise I was just avoiding talking about it in the open to not spoil it. But there have been plenty of clues to suggest it. 2 episodes will be large with the finale being the longest episode of thrones ever (69 minutes)

This is a joking correction, but Tyrion actually only gave enough money for Pod to be back for dinner time. lol (so it wasn't for the night!) But yes...the reminder was great.

I didn't even talk to all the funny stuff that happened in that Brotherhood/Hound scene...with the hound taking Lemoncloak's shoes and asking for food so non chalantly. lol It was great.

Yea..i figured it was Yara and crew too rolling into Meereen...I'm sure they'll show up next week...and we must not forget the Dothraki are there too to help out. Though they really can't help with the ships.

Arya - Technically they didn't really indicate how long she was asleep. That milk of the poppy is powerful stuff...but it's not like she was asleep for yes the bandaging up was kinda silly.'s television. And duh...Lady Crane is an expert stab wound healer!! lol I dunno...I don't get too wrapped up in this stuff to lose my enjoyment of an episode. I'll definitely roll my eyes and laugh about it, but then I just suspend my disbelief....Arya is a super hero, clearly! lol Let's be honest...Jack Bauer couldn't have gone through everything he went through in a day let alone 9 days! lol

Edmure - I always think Jaime will eventually come to his senses...but I have no book knowledge to indicate that. There was definitely more hatred between Cersei/Jaime at this point in the books so I keep wondering if they'll go down that path in the show or not. Not sure if that's a spoiler or not so I apologize in advance! I don't think Jaime really thinks he's on the correct side...he's just in love with Cersei and that's all that matters...when he tried to reason everything out with Brienne...he actually got frustrated because he didn't like talking politics with Brienne...he just likes Brienne outside of all the BS. But yes...opposite sides with deep respect. I wasn't disappointed in River Run either. Richard had a lot of theories on how this could go that he shared and I think he was disappointed it didn't happen. Logistically from what we had already seen on the show I kinda saw where this was going (plus some book knowledge helped too lol) it kind of went as I expected and I was glad for the book nods (like the catapulting of the baby....Jaime did use that line in the book in so many words)

Mike V. said...

It is pretty crazy this season with all the theorizing that has happened because we're mostly off book. It's gone into LOST territory with some of the crazy theories people have and this really isn't that kind of show. But, the backlash reminds me of lost. People had these well constructed theories that they were so convinced about that when they didn't happen they ended up disliking where the show was going (or in Lost's case...where it ended up).

I haven't been jumping too much on the crazy theory bandwagons...even though they're fun to read about. lol But it is just an interesting observation I've noticed this season.

Mike V. said...

Interview with Maisie Williams (arya)

"I didn't want it to appear superhuman" lol I guess she made them tone it down more than it was.

Interview with Jaime/Brienne:

Anonymous said...

STick to your guns Mike, that's what I do. But interestingly all the reviews I've read aren't good re the Arya stuff. Again, too much, not necessary, could have been done a lot better to get same points accross and the thing I dislike the most is, it took away from other better stories.

OH, and obviously no Clegane bowl now.

Jamie should be received back at KL as a kind of hero. I expect the Cersei punishment will be known by seasons end. Part of me wants Jamie and Cersei to live happily ever after at Casterly Rock and part of me wants him to find another girl. Hey, how about Dorne girls--lol? I can't believe some are posting about a Brienne/Jamie match. That's just not right-lol.

BTW, re Brienne and what I thought would be her signature ep--several commentators have written that she has once again failed at her mission. Well intentioned but not good at making it happen.

BTW again, doesn't Tyrion have the other Valyrian steel sword with him?

ONe key thing to keep in mind is that without the Tully's or Lannisters, the Vale troops(Petyr) become a lot more important for the Starks. It's a way to once again position Petyr higher up the pecking order. Makes me wonder if it will have ramifications re Sansa too. Now that she'll be dependant on him.

Any bets on Ramsay surving? AFter the Arya stuff, I'm not sure now. Interestingly, this season hasn't really had a traditional horrible person occupying screen time. And I haven't missed it--at all. IE, I have found the show better without Joffrey and Ramsay.

Any bets on what will happen to the slaver's ships? Will the be burned or used by Dany to go to Westeros? Does she even need the Ironborne ships now? Part of me suspects that unfortunately and ickily the Ironborne will help defeat the slavers this season. Still adding the Dany ship count.

A completely new idea, not read yet anywhere--why didn't Dany just have Drogon attack the slavers? At night the dragon would be harder to see and fight. Not attacking does not fit a conquerers style.


Anonymous said...

Again on the Petyr stuff. Wouldn't it just be disghustingly a TV thing to have Petyr show up after the fighting starts and Jon's forces are severaly depeleted. IN essence snatching victory from the jaws of defeat--showing Petyr as a great leader.


Mike V. said...

Arya - I'm not going to say the Arya storyline the past couple seasons was my favorite, but I still love the character and appreciate the growth she went through. I'm more excited for her returning to the main action. If we're talking about specifically the conclusion to the story?? Well I know there's a lot of ridiculous stuff that happened... I'm just saying I'm okay with it. But, I'm usually forgiving of a lot of stuff. Not Dorne, but a lot of stuff. lol

Yep, no Clegane bowl...not this year at least. I still think they're bound to run into each other again. And it's looking like killing the reanimated corpse might be pretty difficult...any bets that it'll take FIRE to do so? And what does the hound hate more than anything? Fire...and it just happens to be the mountain who made him that way.

What's wrong with shipping Brienne/Jaime? They have a mutual respect for each other...and Even Bronn spoke to the sexual tension. lol Granted...there's the tormund thing too so who knows?? Anyway...I still say Jaime might not be going directly home, but we'll see soon enough. I guess even if the thing that I am not talking about in the open happens this season Jaime may not get involved until later.

Like I said with Brienne...I think it was just a means to an end to course correct her to a specific book location...but yes having her fail at a mission again in the process isn't necessarily a positive step for the character. lol

What sword are you talking about with Tyrion? The other half of ICE? Widow's Wail? that was Joffrey's who knows where it is now? In king's landing somewhere.

I still think Ramsay dies this season. I think they're putting everyone into place for the final conflict...and there's no room for Ramsay in that conflict. Considering how "predictable" this season has been I would notch this one in the predictable column to. But we'll see! Yeah Sansa making a deal with the devil will certainly have ramifications even if in the short term it might guarantee them a victory. As for it looking like Jon Snow is SAVED by Littlefinger and doesn't earn the win on his own...yeah...maybe...but not if Jon Snow is in a 1 on 1 battle with Ramsay and comes out on the winning end. We'll see.

Slaver ships - I'm not sure...i thought of both outcomes...burning them or using them. Yeah...i just assumed the iron born will help Dany out of this conflict solidifying one westeros alliance for her.

I also wondered why Dany wouldn't attack the ships with Drogon. Seems too easy I guess. lol But they don't show the dragons at night either...that's a CGI issue. (MJ...that might be why we didn't see Dany fly in on Drogon) Logistically would think she would use the dragon. maybe one dragon vs. all those ships is still a potentially losing effort. Drogon wasn't doing well in that arena with all the sons of the harpys.

It's not just a TV thing for Littlefinger to show up at the end of the fighting and save the day. Last week I used the Two Towers analogy of Gandalf getting the riders of Rohan to help. all hope was lost and then gandalf came and saved the day... I just feel it'll be something like that. I could be totally wrong. Who knows?? The white walkers may roll into town and force Snow and Bolton and Vale to unite. lol Doubtful...but that certainly would be a twist we didn't expect. I still think the wall needs to come down before that happens!

Regardless...I'm sure next week will visually look pretty impressive. The same director of Hardhome has the final 2 episodes of the season.

Anonymous said...

Yes, the other half of ICE? I thought Tyrion got it, but I really can't recall, so asking where it is?

He's grown a lot since the Harpys.

A CGI issue for dragons at night? How's that?

Saw the trailer for EP 9. Not bad.


MJ said...

Well - Dothraki are not there yet ! They are traveling by land and not flying by dragon afterall.

Agree - probably all budgetary reasons. But some much conflict was ended and none of it shown was disappointing. The character moments were great - but a little more action would have been good too.

Pod - but Pod was so 'enjoyable' they did not take his money LOL

True dat on Jack Bauer !

yeah - I avoid all the suppositions. Want it to unfold as is for me. Should say most. Have read a few b accident

Mike V. said...

I'll respond to more later. I could've sworn I listened to some podcast that thrones do not do night scenes with the dragons. Maybe it's specifically drogon since he's black. i tried googling and can't find anything. So I'll retract my statement unless I can find better evidence lol

Widows wail we haven't seen since joffreys wedding. I'm not sure if we know where it went in the books or not. But Tyrion definitely didn't get it. I'll look it up.

Mj I'll respond to your stuff later. On my phone!

Mike V. said...

Book vs show on widows wail's_Wail

Mike V. said...

Dothraki - I guess they're not there yet...there's no telling if Dany flew on ahead of them or just flew to the pyramid when they all got there lol Guess she may explain in ep 10.

Budget vs. Thematic - I read an interview with the director on about the decisions for both of those. The Arya one was supposed to be an 8 episode payoff to her blind training (as we discussed)...and that would be impossible to film unless night vision goggles were a thing in Westeros. lol The other one was a decision for the scene between Brienne and Blackfish to stand out more than his death. That one I'm not so sure I agree with.

I'm not going to share the link because he discussed his knowledge of a book setup that Richard and I have been discussing all season. lol And if it happens it happens...if it doesn't...well then I guess it's not happening!

Pod - yes they didn't take his money but he still returned by dinner time! lol Loyal that one is! :)

Ep 9 trailer - yep saw it too. Looks promising. I also read it's the only episode they submitted to the Emmys for writing. I'm shocked since they had the Hodor episode too. (Maybe they submitted Jack Bender for directing that one. surely) Must be impressive.

True that Drogon has grown a lot since the harpys.

I guess one reason they may not have attacked the ships is that Dany is thinking she can use the ships like we mentioned.

Usually when we ask these questions they have ways to address them in the episode...even if they're unsatisfactory... (Like how is Arya going to heal from the same stab wounds that Talisa was killed by? lol)

Anonymous said...

Funny on submitting a war action centered ep for writing. Makes me think there's going to be something big going on outside of the battle of the bastards.


Mike V. said...

Maybe...or they think the episode is just THAT well written. There could be some showcased moments before, during and after the battle for certain characters that display great writing. I won't pretend to know exactly what the academy looks for in writing to award the winner. (i.e. Dialogue, story, battle strategy/execution, all of the above lol)

Mike V. said...


Richard...I was reading Tower of the Hand's bio on CS/LS.... this entry made me think maybe we're going to see this happen. I don't think I remembered the details as well as I thought. I thought BD died and then Thoros brought back CS as LS.....but it appears BD tried to raise CS killing him in the process. Maybe they're going to show that. Also...she was dead for 3 days before they brought her apparently the timing of Jon's resurrection was in canon to the books. here's the passage (just changing names to letters)

"When the Brotherhood found her body, CS had already been dead for three days, and T of M refused to try bringing her back despite pleas from Harwin, a former guard at WF. BD decided to do it himself, which apparently killed him for good. (AFFC 43) C's quest for vengeance apparently created a schism within the group, as not everyone in the BH W/O B chose to follow her. (AFFC Appendix)"

Sorry for all the abbreviations. Read the whole passage here:

Anonymous said...

That gives more meaning to what happened with Sandor and the Brotherhood and BD, IE their meeting by the CREEK.


Anonymous said...

Remember when they made a big deal out of Sandor standing by the creek relieving himself?

Mike V. said...

**************BOOK DISCUSSION (SPOILERS - potentially)************

Don't forget Book warnings! lol

By they you mean the show right? The brotherhood didn't care he was pissing...but yeah the fact that they were drawing attention to the river made me think (during the episode) about LS. So either they're completely messing with book fans or there is still hope. Obviously, I've been vague about this in the recaps because I don't want to give anything away....but yeah I'm looking for LS clues all over the place. lol If you take LS off the table, it seems like the brotherhood is heading north to help with the walker fight. But why is Brienne in river run then? For a failed mission? Just to see Jaime one more time? There has to be a detour for her journey back.

At least for the rest of this season I'm going to stick by the theory that they might "FIND" CS...and show us the scene that was only spoken about in the past in the book. I don't know if it would be as shocking as just running into a reanimated LS....but I stand to be corrected.

Of course...we must be prepared for this to not come true at all and try not to get too disappointed in the show for driving book fans to these crazy theories. I mean they had to know if they were going to return to this plot that book fans would have expectations!

I swear I thought in the book Arya had a wolf dream in Nymeria and that Nymeria was the one that found CS's body....maybe she did, but maybe that was prior to the brotherhood stumbling into it.

MJ said...

Stab wounds - in reality they are a tricky thing. Depends on what organs and arteries are hit and or affected. Also how deep the wounds went and the health of the individual. People in real life have survived rebar through their head ! But none of them get up within 24 hours and run around and fall and crash through things with just a little pain and bleeding. LOL I get it about suspending belief - all shows do it. But since they didn't show so much stuff that would have been good it just makes it easier to nit pick

Anonymous said...

Agree MJ.


Yea, sometimes like with the creek scene I think they're just screwing with us. But, seriously when he was peaing I thought of CS appearing if not then, soon. I mean it's kind of a strange thing to use filim time for such a mundane action. Interesting that Brienne got away on a boat in a similar sized creek.


Anonymous said...

BTW, we've not posted about Varys leaving just before the slaver attack. His little birds of course would allow him to know about the attack before hand.

I think something's up with that. Not sure what since he's supposed to be loyal to Targaryans.


Anonymous said...

Another Arya storyline thing--the show made it look like Arya got the drop on Jaqen. I don't think so. Then for Jaqen to say she's now No One--really, really when she's standing there with needle in her hand--something she was supposed to have gotten rid of. That was just ridiculous. Just a lot of bad writing around this whole ep and Arya to me.


Mike V. said...

Nit picks - I've been listening to podcasts/reading reviews of the episode and everyone seems to be on the same page with this ep. Just a mess of an episode. I agree with the arguments and I thought them as I was watching....I guess I just didn't care too much to complain! lol But, I guess when an episode is sloppy you have to call the show out on it or they'll cut corners in the future again too.

Varys - Yeah I read theories about that too. There are theories that Varys might be behind the sons of the harpy but I'm not sure I'd go that far. I also thought about the fact that he hasn't met Dany and didn't show his presence until she was gone and then left moments before she showed up again. Not sure if there's any significance to that either. The dude is shady though so you never know what he's really up to. But he's a targaryan supporter...we know that much. So I'm not sure why he'd bring on the war unless it was to accelerate Dany's departure. Some of these just might be gaping plot holes. Most of these theories people have had this season have not panned out and can be chalked up to questionable writing. But we'll see!

Arya/Jaqen Nitpicks - It was pretty sloppy....the best I can come up with though (and I think I may have written this before) and others have said it to....maybe Jaqen never wanted Arya to join the Faceless Men, but had vested interest in getting her the training she needs. Maybe the reason he kept hitting her when she said she was no one was because she was NOT no one. She was Arya Stark the whole time. So when he finally acknowledged she was no one it was one final test for her to reject her wishes to become no one and return to her true mission. There are theories out there that the Braavosi had vested interest in Arya getting the training she needs because she's some kind of chosen one. Syrrio was braavosi, Jaqen (what was he doing locked up in that cage in season 2 anyway?)...then he gave her that coin saying any braavosi she gave it to would help her without question as long as she gave the phrase. Of course...this is all speculation and nothing the show or books have outright suggested. But the 1st part is at least what I assumed was going on with Jaqen. He never wanted her to join and was proud of Arya for figuring out who she was and her purpose. Of course...we also don't know if this is the same Jaqen we met in s2. But it really doesn't matter.


I thought that too with Hound peeing. And yes....the fact that Brienne is on the creek can not be a coincidence. Also some of that LS/Brienne story involved the Hound if you recall (if not reread the wiki page/tower of the hand)....of course she was lying about the hound. in this case maybe the hound will actually be there. lol

Anonymous said...

Have you read about the Lemoncloak theory?


Mike V. said...

I never did until you mentioned it. I just googled it. Doesn't look like that theory will be panning out in the show. And I'm really not the importance of the theory. But I stopped reading a quarter way through. lol

Anonymous said...

***********************spec *************************************8

Well, some are saying with the Lemoncloak theory since he was actually introduced as a character-- LS will be forthcoming.


Mike V. said...

**************************SPEC - BEST for non book readers TO IGNORE THIS WHOLE POST******************************

Ohhhh...THAT theory. Yeah...I had known the discussion around Lem Lemoncloak signified that LS might be coming. But when I googled the "Lem Lemoncloak" theory....I got some crazy book theory about how he might actually be Rhaegar Targaryan's old squire under a different name. lol

But the books LEM acquires The Hound's helmet and refers to him as the hound even though she had been told he was dead. So that's why I was suggesting they might still continue that plot with just the hound being lem instead of lem. lol Another character that resurfaces during this storyline is Gendry....I wonder if he'll be showing up again in the show anytime soon or if he's still rowing. lol

Excerpts from Brienne in wiki (I think the biter stuff happened in season 4 with Arya/Hound):

*******************TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM WIKI DON'T READ UNLESS YOU ARE IN THE KNOW! *******************************************

Feast for Crows

"At the inn at the crossroads near the Trident, Brienne fights another group of Brave Companions led by Rorge, who has been masquerading as Sandor while (censored) in the riverlands. Brienne kills Rorge, but is grievously wounded by Biter, who chews the flesh off her cheek.[28] After Gendry rescues her from Biter, he and the remaining members of the brotherhood without banners take her and Podrick and Hyle captive.
The undead CS, now leading the brotherhood as "LS", does not believe Brienne's tale of her search for Sansa and judges her to be a traitor who is serving the Lannisters. Brienne is given the choice of "sword or noose"—to kill JL to prove her loyalty, or to hang. Brienne refuses to choose and is sentenced to hang, along with her companions. As she is being hanged, she sees PP choking and dying, and shouts "sword" to save him.[29][30] "

A Dance with Dragons
"Having been spared by the brotherhood, B appears briefly at Pennytree when JLcamps there. She asks JL to help her save SS from the Hound, claiming they are a day's ride away. She tells JL, however, that he must go with her alone, or the Hound will kill SS.[31] The scenario she describes, however, seems unlikely to be real, as Sansa was last seen by readers in the Vale,[32] and Brienne has been told SG (Hound) is dead (though Brienne herself now uses "The Hound" to refer to Lem, who has acquired Clegane's helmet[29]).


Mike V. said...

Just remembered. I was listening to A Storm of Spoilers Podcast yesterday (don't worry, no spoilers here) and they brought up how GRRM met with his editors in NYC recently. He also saw Hamilton while he was there. OF COURSE! (Actually, now that I think of it I did see pics of GRRM with Lin Manuel Miranda on Facebook lol)

Anyway, usually meeting with the editors means he handed them a manuscript. And speculation is he probably handed HBO a manuscript as well.

The podcast further threw out some options for Winds of Winter release. One would be that GRRM shows up to the comic-con panel (signifying he finished the book or else he wouldn't be there) and then makes some crazy announcement like "it's out in 2 weeks".....or they also discussed how a big launch period for big books is the maybe it would come out this fall.

I'm not sure I agree...the new Harry Potter book (i.e. the script of the London play) is coming out this summer which is usually when the potter books came out. And A Dance With Dragons was a July release as well. But, with all of the publishing and translations for other countries that has to happen, I can't imagine it coming out so soon after he handed them the manuscript.

But...this is potentially a positive development in The Winds of Winter release saga! lol

Of course...this entire post is about speculation. The only fact is GRRM was in NYC and saw Hamilton. lol And judging by GRRM's past travel ventures that could've been the sole purpose of his visit!