Monday, August 14, 2017

Game of Thrones: Season 7 Episode 5 - Eastwatch

Hello everyone and welcome to this continuously fast paced and very informative penultimate season of Game of Thrones!  Wow, kids.  Just wow.  I am still catching my breath from a whirlwind tour of the 7 Kingdoms.  What a knowledge dump!  New Twists and subplots have taken shape and the end-game for this season and potentially the series are seeming to gain some traction.  I really enjoyed this episode, but am fully aware that all the skipping around may have been confusing.  I'm here to try and help make sense of it all.  Let's dive in!

Discussion Points

With all of the location jumping, it might make sense to break this up by Plot thread more than by location!  Right off the bat, we got a new location on our world building map in the opening credits.  Hello Eastwatch by the Sea! 

Aftermath of Battle of Blackwater Rush (i.e. the poorly named "Loot Train Battle")
  • We didn't have to wonder long if Jaime survived and who saved him.  It was Bronn and they surfaced far enough away from the battle to get away.  We also learned Bronn's "claimed motivation" for saving him was to get what's owed to him.  That fits in his character and what we were left wondering after his heroic save last week. 
  •  Jaime knows they can't win the war.  This was one dragon and the Dothraki are a menacing foe.    If Dany decides to really use the dragons, they're done for.  And Bronn said he will not be there for it.  Jaime knows he has to tell Cersei. 
  • He got back and gave the report.  Cersei pledges to keep fighting because she knows she will die either way.  She also started bad mouthing Tyrion again, and Jaime convinced Cersei that Olenna actually killed Joffrey.  It took some processing, but she was furious.  Not sure what the end result of this knowledge transfer will be.  Will it make her anger towards Tyrion any less severe?  Given the coming ceasefire maybe it will aid in that, but Tyrion still killed their father. Jaime wasn't really happy to see him. 
  • Meanwhile, Dany is asking the Lannister/Tarly army to swear fealty to her.  She speaks of the lies that Cersei is spreading of her.  She talks again about breaking the wheel that puts people like Cersei in charge.  A few did bend the knee immediately to her, but everyone eventually kneeled out of fear of Drogon.  And man has he grown!   This was the first time you could really tell how big he's gotten.  He was just chilling in front of that army and was larger than life. 
  • Long story short, Sam's father (Randyl) and brother (DICKON!) refused to bend the knee and as Dany promised she had them burned by Dragon fire.  Dany is "being the dragon" as Lady Olenna had recommended.  She is disregarding Tyrion's advice in this area and there are definite hints of Mad Queen in her future.  But, she does justify these actions later to Jon.  Basically, it's all a means to an end.  They need strength in numbers.  And sometimes strength is terrifying.
  • How about that shot of Dany and Dragon landing back at Dragonstone and meeting Jon?   It was pretty touching when Drogon and Jon bonded.  Drogon can smell that Targaryen blood!  Dany seemed impressed by this as well (and maybe a little turned on if I'm being honest!).
  • And who else shows up conveniently right when everyone else is getting there?  None other than Ser Jorah Mormont!  A touching reunion between Dany and Jorah takes place.  Don't get used to him being around though because he'll be gone in 5 minutes!  Lots of shifting characters around in a small amount of time in this episode.  We all get why they're doing it, but it sure is a different pacing this year than in the past.  I was hoping that Jorah would name drop Sam to Jon, especially when Jon said that he also served Jorah's father.  But, maybe that will be coming in a future conversation. 
  • As part of the dragon burning aftermath, we should also note Tyrion and Varys' discussion about trying to keep Dany in check.  Varys talked about his time with the Mad King and how he tried to justify everything that happened back then. He kept repeating "I'm not the one doing it."  But, he warned Tyrion to try and find a way to get her to listen.  Tyrion does chime in with some advice for the next struggle that comes their way.  Enter Bran to move the plot forward! 
  • We should also discuss that Dany asked Jon about Davos saying he took a knife to the heart.  Jon mentioned that Davos embellishes, but he didn't deny it was true.  Before he had the chance to explain to Dany any further, Jorah showed up.  Something tells me this topic won't go away just yet. 

Bracing the 7 Kingdoms for the Dead

  • We return to Winterfell, to see Bran warging with either one or an entire flock of crows.  They headed past Eastwatch and not far from there was the Army of the Dead.  The Night King seemingly spotted Bran yet again and he woke out of his slumber asking the new Winterfell Maester to prep the Ravens. 
  • Loved the moment where Tyrion knows Varys already read the scroll that was sealed for the King in the North.  
  • Jon learns a lot in this scroll.  He thought Arya and Bran were both dead.  Did he with Bran?  In the show Sam told Jon he saw Bran.  I guess he assumed he died, but it was only a book thing where Jon thought Bran was dead for sure.  I guess Jon learned that Bran is at the very least a Warg now.  I don't think anyone really knows what the 3 eyed raven is!  But, Jon has seen and been through enough crazy stuff to believe his brother/cousin.  The Night King and the army of the dead are marching towards Eastwatch.  
  • Jon talked through this in Dany's war room.  And they actually came up with an interesting plan.  We always thought everyone would need to band together to fight the army of the dead.  We never thought Cersei would be willing to play with this.  But, if you can "fight all your battles at once" as Littlefinger suggests then maybe there is a way to get them to play in the same sandbox for a bit.  The problem?  The proof of the army of the dead.  Back in season 1, Lord Commander Mormont sent Ser Alliser Thorne down to King's Landing with the arm of the wight that reanimated in Castle Black.  Unfortunately, but they time it got down there it was rotted away to nothing.  The new plan is kind of crazy, but they want to capture a wight and bring it all the way to King's Landing.  Considering how quickly people are traveling now this shouldn't be too much of a problem. Hell, it may even happen next week! 
  • This required Tyrion to go to King's Landing with Davos to somehow negotiate an audience with Cersei through Jaime/Bronn.  What a reunion that was!  Jaime swore he would kill Tyrio the next time he saw him.  But seeing Tyrion in the flesh is a little different.  They couldn't get past the killing of Tywin, but Tyrion certainly gave a convincing speech.  I'm surprised he left Shae out of the discussion.    
  • Jaime brought the information to Cersei, who apparently knew the meeting was taking place already.  Hence, probably why Qyburn was in there. (I'll admit I thought that maybe Cersei was getting busy with Qyburn now too)  
  • Cersei admits that accommodating Dany is in their best interest.  She wants to be clever and fight like their father.  Be close with your enemies.  Of course, this might be Cersei's undoing in the end especially if Jaime gets a good look at the greater cause.  
  • But, alas there's another twist.  Cersei claims she is pregnant.  Is she really or is she just playing with Jaime?  She tells Jaime exactly what he wants to hear.  Jaime will be the father in public as the lions don't concern themselves with the opinions of sheep.   But then that HUG.  "Never betray me again."  Eh?  When did Jaime betray her?  Meeting with Tyrion?  He didn't even know that meeting was taking place.  But, the line did seem to give Jaime pause. 
  • Meanwhile, once Davos said he had business in flea bottom and we saw in the opening credits that Joe Dempsie was listed, we knew we'd finally see Gendry again!  It didn't disappoint.  The show even played into the joke that Genry was still rowing in Blackwater Bay.  Fantastic!  Gendry was smithing for the Lannister Army. Hiding in plain sight.  But, now he's ready to move on with Davos.  Better yet?  He's forged himself a Warhammer, just like his father Robert Baratheon used to use!  He is his father's son!   Didn't take him long to show us what he could do with it either.  There was a drawn out scene with the gold cloaks that was really entertaining.  But long story short, Gendry saved Tyrion from the cloaks instantly impressing him.  
  • So now that that part of the plan is underway, Jon has volunteered to lead a group past Eastwatch to steal a wight.  Dany is visibly shaken by this news.  She clearly doesn't want Jon to leave, but Jon gives a convincing speech that he is truly the only one that can lead the expedition.  
  • When Gendry returns he disregards Davos advice to lay low under an alias and comes right out and introduces himself to Jon Snow, King in the North.  They talk about how they met each other's fathers.  It's the next generation of Stark and Baratheons, but bastards (or ARE THEY BOTH???  We'll get there)   Jon is won over quickly by Gendry.  Why quickly? Because we have to move folks!  Gotta be to Eastwatch by the end of the episode!  i.e. 10 minutes! 
  • Loved Tyrion and Jorah's quick moment of goodbye.  Tyrion gave Jorah a coin that they shared during their slaver days and asked him to bring it back. For the queen needs him.  Loved Tyrion's "Nobody glowers like you.  Not even Greyworm."   Almost as great as the brooding commentary on Jon.  Maybe better.  
  • The farewells were all heartfelt.  Lots of longing glances between Jorah, Dany, Jon.  But there was definitely flirtation going on, well, probably with both men and Dany.  But Dany told Jon that she's grown used to Jon Snow.   The dragonglass was packed up on the boat, and they shipped off.  

  • Sansa held court in Winterfell and there was unrest with the support.  They must've received word that Jon was going North and they weren't happy about it.  They suggested they should've made Sansa Warden or Queen of the North.  Sansa stood by Jon.  But, it's clear there is some brewing tensions and this is enough for Littlefinger to start making his play. 
  • Arya and Sansa have some tense talks afterwards.  Arya wants to start taking names and beheading people.  Sansa is all for being more diplomatic.  Arya is talking about how her diplomacy is all about Sansa waiting to seize her opportunity to take the reins for herself.  She doesn't want to be thinking it, but she is.  Sansa dismisses Arya.  
  • Arya falls right into Littlefinger's chaos trap.  She starts spying on him.  Long story short, he lures her into his quarters to find an old scroll that Maester Llewyn kept.  I freeze framed and it's the scroll that Sansa wrote (under the Queen Cersei's "guidance".  Something Robb Stark noticed immediately) declaring that Robert Baratheon was dead and Joffrey was the king.  They requested that Robb come bend the knee.  Arya is reading this for the first time and is probably interpreting this as she was a Cersei supporter.  Littlefinger watched the pieces move in his favor and smiled at the chaos brewing.  Chaos, is a ladder after all.  But won't this information damage Sansa's reputation if it gets out?  Doesn't matter.  Littlefinger will latch onto whatever plays in his favor.  We all knew not to trust that dude!  
Oldtowne - Citadel
  • So the Raven comes in from Winterfell and clearly everyone didn't believe what this boy from north of the wall saw.  Sam knew it was Brandon Stark and spoke of everything he saw, including the White Walkers.  But the maesters kept dismissing.  Sam wanted Archmaester Ebros to declare that this information is true so that the 7 Kingdoms would believe.  But, they thought this could be fodder to support Dany's attempt to claim the Kingdoms for herself.  
  • After Sam left, defeated, we found out that Ebros and the rest of them knew that Sam's family had been killed by Dany and her dragon. 
  • But, the biggest reveal in this storyline, and perhaps the entire story was something we've been debating for years.  And something that we read last week could be a possibility.  Not sure if everyone caught this.  First of all, Gilly has become quite the master reader hasn't she?  She still didn't know what an Annulment was.  We found out that Prince Rheagar Targaryan indeed did have his marriage to Elia Martell annulled!  And there was a secret marriage in Dorne.  Know what else is in Dorne?  The Tower of Joy.  Know what we saw at the Tower of Joy?  The birth of Jon Snow.  Know who Jon Snow's mother is?  Lyanna Stark.  Do we now know something new?  Yes.  Prince Rhaegar Targaryen (Dany's older brother and heir to the Iron Throne) married Lyanna Stark legally and had a legitimate heir.  Jon Snow is NOT a bastard!  And he has the best claim to the the throne!  And now there is potentially legal proof at the citadel.  Well, it WAS at the Citadel.  I'm guessing Jon and Gilly packed up that book with the knowledge of all of those steps and number of sh#ts and brought it with them! 
  • Sam raided the restricted section of the citadel and took one last look.  He was fed up with the old Maesters and was tired of reading about achievements of better men.  He wants to be that better man!  They're heading back north y'all!  With lots of important scrolls! Hopefully, he picked the right ones.  
  • Scotty got the coordinates and beamed Jon, Jorah, Davos and Gendry to Eastwatch.  Tormund tried to talk Jon out of his suicide mission, but was secretly hopefully that they brought Brienne with them.  Loved Jon's look here.  
  • We quickly found out that they aren't the only ones that want to go North.  Yep, The Hound and the Brotherhood were there locked in the dungeon.  Lots of hatred to go around with this band.   Gendry was furious of being sold to Melissandre.  Beric is talking about the Lord of Light needing them to fight the good fight.  The Hound just wants to get on with it and go.  What a motley crew:  Beric, Thoros, Jorah, Gendry, The Hound, Tormund and Jon all eventually agreed that they are on the same side. Jon summed it up, they're all still breathing.    
  • Next thing we know, the gate of Eastwatch opened and the Dirty 7 are heading north to get them some fresh wight!  I'm sure everything will go according to plan!  LET'S. DO. THIS!!! 
Whew!  I'm exhausted.  So much happened that I couldn't even dedicate a lot of time to any topic in particular. But, I'm sure we'll get into it in the comments!  But Jon man.  Legit Targaryen!  Surely, by the next time he meets Dany he's going to know this.  I'm sure this show will end just like the end of Spaceballs with Lonestar/Jon coming in to stop the wedding of Vespa/Dany to some boring dude (Littlefinger) shouting "I'm a Prince!  I'm an honest to God Prince!"  Ahh, I crack myself up.  Anyway, let's get commenting!  Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and I'll see you next week! 


Anonymous said...

Much to comment on.
Here's a little of it.
Jon's character is tragically written to me. Maybe I should just say that nobody could make the mistakes he does so often.
1. No raven sent by Jon to Winterfell. Seriously, him going to Eastwatch would solve a lot of his political problems. So, why didn't he send a raven? Especially after the one he received from Winterfell. Because Jon's character has in my opinion just not been written well.
2. Yea, Jorah loaded the dragonglass. BUT they didn't even talk about it when preparing to go North of the wall. Even at Dragonstone they talk about swords and hammers. It seemed just stupid. They talk about using weapons that don't work as well as the dragonglass that Jon went to Dragonstone to get! So, they go to get a wight without dragonglass-- stupid and kind of insulting to the fans.
3. Yea, the writers just magically wrote off the men Jon had with him when he landed at Dragonstone. A large ship which requires a pretty good sized crew is somehow now sailing without that same crew and the others. So, Jon has fewer troops going to get a wight than he SHOULD have. Why, because the writers think we're dumb? Probably not, but to make it more of a small party vs a big project. IE, a set up for Jon to fail.

That's right this entire Jon going to Eastwatch in my opinion is for Jon to fail. So, why must Jon fail(I have to say this again, it's stuff like this that make me not like the character)? I can only think of one thing. Dany has to rescue him.

BTW, I got the Jaime thing right with him going to KL.


Anonymous said...

1. Arya vs LF. My daughter said last night that LF besting Arya could be because ARya left her training early.
2. When we saw the note last night we both knew it was forced upon Sansa to write. So, LF is trying to set up a ARya vs Sansa thing. IE, create chaos. And he's creating chaos with the other houses pledged to Winterfell.
3. I laughed when you said Dany and LF might get married--spaceballs style. You know I pushed that idea a few weeks ago. Or at least he might pursue her.
4. Going back to late last season when speaking of the houses with no future/no heirs, I kept wondering why Cersei couldn't get pregnant again by Jamie. I never said anything because I thought there would be NO way the writers would introduce such a new major character at this time. And so, that's why I'm thinking she's faking a pregnancy to make Jamie fight a pretty unwinable war. To protect his child---that's huge motivation for a guy. Her "pregnancy" of course makes it impossible for him to kill her. But, when it's discovered that it is faked, then he could kill her. Plus, this 4th child was not prophesied.
5. My daughter is on board now with the idea that Dany and Cersei have a lot in common. IE, killing/burning people. And so the very same moment Dany says she's not like what Cersei says, she burns people alive. And the lie that all the people follow her because they love her was on full display when ONLY after drogon roared did everybody bend the knee. I liked that they showed the burned wagons and ash. And YES, the ep was inappropriately titled. I think it should have been the Blackwater Rush Burning or similar.
6. Jon with drogon, that was one of the best scenes. And, I'm not a Jon fan, lol. YEs, drogon could smell the Targaryen. Wasn't that meeting different vs Tyrion and the dragons? I'm thinking it was different enough to prove Jon a Targaryen and question Tyrion if not eliminate him.
7. One thing that hit me over the head last night was the Gendry/Jon meeting when they said what they expected the other to look like. So, Jon being short was a light bulb moment. My daughter pointed out that Emilia is only 5'2". And so Jon being short makes a lot of sense with him being a Targaryen vs Stark. IE, maybe the Targaryens are supposed to be short? Which would help your Tyrion theory out. LOL, we won't talk about the short Robb Stark though.
8. The Cersei storyline will continue for a while beyond the first ep next season. I say that because of the set up with the armistice.
9. I took the line from Cersei to Jamie about him not betraying her as an indication of her increasing insanity.
10. Bron should get the hell out of dodge, asap.


Anonymous said...

11. I don't think Sam heard Gilly about "Raggor" and I really can't see that it registered with him. He certainly gave no indication that he saw it was connected with Jon. I don't think they took that book since it had a lot of stuff about bowel movements and other useless info. Which means, for Jon and others to know he is the rightful heir is a long way off, if ever. And of course he won't want to be King.
12. My daughter pointed out that the NK being created by the children of the forest was all about the magic. And that same magic is at work with the three eyed raven. IE, came from the same source and so related. That's why the NK can see the 3 eyed raven at work. My daughter has read the books.
13. It occurs to me that this NK could be the original!!! I can't find where he was ever killed. But if this is a new NK, does that mean the children of the forest still exist and created this one again for some purpose? The more I've pondered this the more I realize that the NK must serve an important purpose.
14. Can you imagine a wight being displayed at KL?
15. I liked Jon's line about we're breathing, we're on the same side.

OK,I'll read some other recaps now.

Mike, thanks for your recap!!!


Mike V. said...

No problem Richard! Thanks for reading and your comments! I’m going to get to your comments but wanted to say a few things before I forget.

- Some are theorizing that one of the magnificent/frozen 7 will end up being the wight that comes back. And what would be better than a reanimated Hound to take down to meet a reanimated Sandor? CLEGANE BOWL!!!! LOL

-Do we think Beric, Thoros and Jon will have some discussions about reanimation as well? And do we think Thoros is going to have to try to resurrect someone?

-Some people joked that we’ll be able to tell the passing of time by Gendry’s hair. How about Cersei’s stomach? Lol (I still think she might be lying…plus the prophecy never mentioned a 4th child. Even if she isn’t lying…she’s a dead woman walking)

I think there was more but can’t think of them at this moment!

Mike V. said...

Ok…my attempt to respond to you Richard! Lol

Jon – what mistake did he make now??? Guess I’m going to find out.

1.) How do you know a raven wasn’t sent to winterfell? The scene immediately after he decides on his plan the North is complaining to Sansa. I thought that implied that he DID communicate where he was going. In this fast paced season I think that’s a safe assumption. But I did read/hear how people said the scene was ambiguous. They could’ve still been complaining that he went South. But I think this would’ve renewed complaints if he went past Winterfell to The Wall. His place isn’t at the wall anymore…that’s why they’re mad. They even made that comment at Dragonstone. Jon doesn’t care….he’s doing a lot of unpopular things because he feels they need to be done. He was resurrected to fight the long night and he is going to do what he needs to to make sure he saves humanity. (OH RIGHT ….another thought that came up as I was reading stuff. Do we think Benjen will join the fight next week??)
2.) They were talking about a V-Steel sword….we don’t know what that hammer is made out of just yet either. But you’re right…they did gloss over a bit. But we DID see the northerners mining in the cave. Surely they brought dragonglass with them. And Beric’s flaming sword will help against wights too. (see: preview for next week)
3.) He might have left the men there to mine for more dragonglass….but I thought there were more men heading to the ship. I think they have the smaller crew because It’s a small mission…and it sets up an unlikely grouping of awesome characters. Come on…how can you not be excited about this crew??? It’s awesome. And yes….I get your long-standing theory that Jon will fail before he succeeds. I think he will succeed but through failure (i.e. one of the people he went with will be the wight they bring back as I mentioned) Interesting on Dany rescuing him though. Didn’t think about that. I don’t know though. I think the next time Jon sees Dany he’s going to have more information about who he is. I think Jon returns to Winterfell after his north wall quest.

Yes you got the Jaime thing right. But did you call the whirlwind parade of characters all over the 7 kingdoms in a 59 minute span? I mean Tyrion was in and out of King’s Landing without a chance to shoot the sh#t with Bronn. Lol

moving on to the next comments!

Mike V. said...

Next numbered comments:

1. Interesting about arya leaving training early. Maybe…but Littlefinger also has played his game brilliantly for a long time and no one has caught him. This is where Sansa and Arya sharing information and understanding each other would help matters. But, that doesn’t make for good TV. Lol Let’s not say Arya is bested just yet. This may be the CHAOS move that does LF in in the end. We’ll see.
2. Yep…CHAOS. Anything to get LF to have an advantage depending where the cards fall.
3. LOL…glad you laughed at the spaceballs reference. I was a little too proud of myself on that one!  Your theory did inspire my joke a bit! Lol
4. Yeah...I just commented on the pregnancy above again…I think she’s faking it too..and if she’s not…she’s dead anyway. There is no 4th child in the prophecy. The king will have dozens of children and the Queen will only have 3. ONLY 3. Oooh….interesting. Didn’t think about Jaime catching her in the lie and that inspiring him to kill her.
5. Yeah…the burning of the TARLYs was certainly off-putting and it’s meant to be. Dany is not perfect, but she has executed people in the past. Jon has executed people in the past. But burning people alive when you’re saying you’re not your father??? I dunno. She may have noble intentions, but Varys and Tyrion didn’t have their conversation for the hell of it. They need to put Dany in check before she becomes her father. A lot of people said the battle last week was very similar to Aegon’s “FIELD OF FIRE” battle…so they should’ve just called it that as an homage. But they went with loot train. Lol
6. Jon/Drogon scene was amazing. People mentioned that this scene was reminiscent of how Jon approached Ghost once…glove off. He’s no stranger to magical beasts. Fair point on Tyrion....but he might still have a bond with the dragons even if he’s not a Targaryen. And even if he had Targ blood, he wouldn’t be a legitimate one. He’d be a bastard son of the Mad King. Just seems late in the game for the show to introduce that. The book might.
7. Lol on SHORT Targaryens….I think that’s an extreme coincidence! Lol I think that was just comparing the size of Kit Harrington and Sean Bean. Lol And the waist size of Robert vs. Gendry. But hey…who knows???
8. Yeah…I mean to say (hinted at it) that this episode pretty much guaranteed we’re going late into next season with the “game of thrones” and the “battle against the dead”. Makes sense given the name of the show.
9. Indeed on Cersei…she’s flat out nuts. Of course, compared to book Cersei she’s totally sane. Lol
10. Bronn needs to go have a spinoff with Tyrion and Varys….drinking wine and cracking jokes for a 30 minute sitcom.

Mike V. said...

11. Sam definitely didn’t hear Gilly…he’s tangent was phenomenal. Wish I could’ve given it credit in my recap but I was tired. Lol The 15,372 shits or whatever he built up to was fantastic. Sam definitely didn’t process what Gilly said and the fact that she mispronounced didn’t help. But they brought the book with them. If Bran starts saying crap in front of Sam it may trigger that conversation and he’ll pull out the book. Of course, that’s a big if…is Sam going to Winterfell? I would guess he’d go there before Castle Black to see Jon. Which makes me think again that Jon will go there before the season is over.
12. That’s a good point about the creation of the night king and the 3 eyed raven being the same magic. Good on your daughter reading the books. I read them too…but the Children of the Forest creating the Night King was NOT in the books yet. Lol
13. I always assumed the NK was the original. I guess that shouldn’t have been a foregone conclusion but that’s what I thought. Lol Don’t know about your subsequent questions!
14. Especially if It’s THE HOUND??? Someone they know turned to undead??? CLEGANE BOWL!!!! I’d be sad about that if Arya doesn’t get to meet him living again.
15. The breathing line was great!

Mike V. said...

Stole this from Reddit but it's hilarious:

"[–]pspetrini 4635 points 12 hours ago

Really looking forward to next week's scene of Sam and Gilly traveling to Winterfell so Sam can get back to Jon and the battle with the WW.

Sam: "We need to hurry up and get back to Winterfell so I can pour through these texts and see if there is any way to stop the White Walkers. I really wish the Maesters had listened to me."

Gilly: "Hmm. It says here that you Sir Authur Martin of the house Ravenswatch once defeated the entire Army of the dead by killing its Night King with dragonglass with a direct shot to the heart in a one-on-one fight."

Sam: "I just don't understand why they wouldn't listen to me. I have a lot of knowledge and it can really save all of us."

Gilly: "Interesting. I just read that the army of the dead has a hive mind and all it takes it three drops of king's blood burned in a fire to get them to freeze in place, making it impossibly easy to kill the Night's Kind and render the entire army obsolete."

Sam: "Obsolete. That's what I felt like Gilly. They wouldn't even take me serious. It's like no one respects me, you know. No one ever pays attention to me."

Sam Jr: "God damn it uncle/dad, would you listen to mom?!?!?!?!!?"

Mike V. said...

Hilarious comments ensue:

The Jon / Daenerys wedding invitation will be insufferable...

[–]Baegic 1089 points 10 hours ago

Dear Tyrion Lannister, You have been invited to the wedding of Queen Daenerys of the House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, The Unburnt, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Queen of Meereen, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regnant of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons and Jon Snow of House Targaryen, First of His Name, The Resurrected, Rightful King of the Andals, The Rhoynar, and The First Men, The King In The North, The 998th Lord Commander of The Night's Watch, Savior of The Free Folk, Slayer of The Dead, The White Wolf, The Son of Ice and Fire, The Prince That Was Promised. Please let us know if you will be coming as soon as possible. Thanks!
With Love, Queen Daenerys of the House Targaryen, the First of Her Name, The Unburnt, Queen of the Andals, the Rhoynar and the First Men, Queen of Meereen, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea, Protector of the Realm, Lady Regnant of the Seven Kingdoms, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons and Jon Snow of House Targaryen, First of His Name, The Resurrected, Rightful King of the Andals, The Rhoynar, and The First Men, The King In The North, The 998th Lord Commander of The Night's Watch, Savior of The Free Folk, Slayer of The Dead, The White Wolf, The Son of Ice and Fire, The Prince That Was Promised.


Anonymous said...

1. We'll see, but I'm thinking no raven to Winterfell. And their complaint was he was in the South, not in the North. So, Jon fighting for them at Eastwatch is a big thing. AND the dragonglass. He should have told them he has it! That's huge news. But, my point is that Jon isn't supposed to win. So, he does things he shouldn't and doesn't do things he should.
2. Yes, Jorah loaded the dragonglass in a box. Notice it made a sound like broken glass when he set it down.

12,13--Think about that a bit. If he is the original NK, then he's very old, wise, etc. And IF he is the original, how did he get beat and yet survive? This is a huge deal. I think it would be much more interesting if he is a NEW NK created by the children of the forrest. Many more ramifications.
13. I like the Hound and would hate for him to become a wight, but I see your points and it would be entertaining a bit. Just very very sad.

Of course Jon and Beric are wights in a way. A kind of LigthWight, lol or maybe SandWalker, lol. They were brought back from the dead.

BTW, don't you think Jorah is wondering why Jon is NOT in the Blackwatch any more?

Winterfell stuff. I am really only partly interested in this stuff. I don't like any of the characters there. The one I dislike the least(and used to really not like) is Sansa. I thought this junk would go by the wayside soon but it appears like the KL stuff it will keep going past what I consider its' usefulness. Arya will have Jon's back BUT it would help if he would tell them the good things he's doing!!!

BTW, now that it looks like Cersei is going deep into S8, it gives LF more time to work some deals with her or somebody else. BUT, the more of these side line stories that don't go away the more minimalized the main story is becoming. It's really hurting the credibility about the threat and therefore the series itself. There is only a certain amount of time left and the % they keep putting on things other than the real threat and the development of that story the less important the real threat is by definition. It's just math. I've never bought the notion that quality time does as much if not more than quantity of time. Just look at what we're posting about.

No Yara and Euron, hmm? And oh, no Theon. Maybe, hopefully they are all dead.

Actually both of us have called the insane and mostly convienent pace of thing.

Anonymous said...

OK, re the bad writing. Let me try it this way. Our heros are talking about killing those zombies from the North explaining to Gendry(who has never been there) what is necessary to do so. They NEVER mentioned dragonglass!!! Nor did they when they talked at Eastwatch!! A very big miss. Even my daughter noticed it as strange.


Anonymous said...

This story is crazy and maybe TMI. Re JOn and impotence. The reason I posted it is what GRRM has to say about Beric and Jon. How he compares them to the wights. Interesting. It appears the book vs show may be at work here too???


Anonymous said...

Sam--about how upset Sam will be with Dany for burning his family alive. I know his Dad and him were at odds, but still that's a big deal.


Mike V. said...

1. Their initial complaint (in prior episodes) was he was in the South. I rewatched this morning. The scene takes place after Jon decides to go to Eastwatch and Davos told him he is the King in the North and has no place there. I’m guessing he did send a raven. We’ll have to agree to disagree. Jon is doing what he thinks he should for mankind…not for the North. He said that basically to the Northerners. I’m the king you chose…I didn’t want this. Basically those words.

2. Lol right. I thought I heard that too.
12/13 – Fair point. I just thought we were seeing the creation of the ORIGINAL white walker and they’ve spread since then. We saw how the Night King made new White Walkers with the Craster kids. Whether or not NK is original or not…maybe they weren’t totally eradicated that first time.
13 – I fear for that theory to be right too. But, it also makes a lot of sense. I think regardless it probably will be one of them that becomes a wight. Beric would be a good one. People know him since he was in King’s Landing when Ned sent out the final order of the Baratheon Administration.
Yep..true on Jon and Beric…though I think the show just sees them as resurrected Humans. Lol

Does Jorah even know who Jon Snow is? And shouldn’t Jon know who Jorah is and want to behead him since that’s what Ned would’ve done if he ever saw him in Westeros again? But there’s too much attachments to Lord Commander Mormont at this point that I’m sure he’d let it slide even if he did know.
Winterfell – You thought the STARK stuff would go by the wayside? The Starks ARE Winter! This story is a redemption story of their family as much as it is a tale of Ice and Fire! (at least that’s always what I’ve been rooting for) I feel like each of the Starks have a role to play in the fight to come. Arya definitely will have Jon’s back.

The story has always been more about the people than the looming threat of the dead. That’s what got people watching/reading….it’s world without magic and people that don’t believe in magic where magic is starting to come back. Magic has always been on the outside looking in…and now it’s creeping in more and more. You’ll get your fantasy battles next season. Lol But it’ll be paralleled with the human battles. It’s all about building up the characters that will face off with this looming threat. We may get more backstory on NK….but it’s not as important as the rest of them. It’s like The Walking Dead (kinda)….sure they’re in a world of zombies, but it’s not really about the zombies. It’s man vs. man.
Hmmm….didn’t even think about Theon not being anywhere in this ep. I doubt he’s dead though! Lol

The writers have made comments that they tow a fine line with RESTATING things the audience already know. Sure, you want characters to tell each other these things but it also becomes boring television…hence why Sansa and Arya didn’t catch each other up on their stories when they reunited. How many times can they beat us over the head with dragonglass? They had a whole voyage to eastwatch…surely Jon and Gendry bonded and discussed it on the way.

Oh boy…I’m afraid to check that link out at work…maybe I’ll check on my phone later…but I think I know where it’s going. Lol

Sam – yeah…definitely a big deal. I really don’t know how he’ll react. I wonder if even Jon knows who Dany burned. If anyone mentioned a damn tarly name in that Jorah/Jon/Dany meeting it would’ve all come out! Lol (Jorah knew Sam, Jon Knows Sam, Dany burned Dad and Bro lol)

Mike V. said...

You guys gotta be tired of my referencing Reddit, but so much good stuff here.

There's a twist on Gendry's line "our fathers trusted each other". Robert actually killed Jon's father Rhaegar. The picture/drawing says it all.

Anonymous said...

I think Tyrion knew about Tarly's, Sam, etc and kept his mouth shut.

And Tyrion's idea of bringing a wight to convince Cersei is really what Jon's mission is about. And that's a risky idea really. IF this goes badly, Tyrion could be in trouble. I can imagine offhand 2 or 3 ways it will go bad IF they get a wight to KL. The only way I could see it working out for the good is for Jamie to go against Cersei. Otherwise she'll try and use it to her advantage. And Qyborn will want to examine it, etc. All kinds of crazy potential with Qyborn and a wight, lol.

I can see your points re the Starks being central to the story. But, in some ways that seems more of a book viewpoint. I mean, with just the TV show Cersei for example has a much greater role. They are obviously important, but with the TV show it seems diminshed. IF, I cared more about the characters/actors in Winterfell, I would certainly be more interested. I should add Bran and put him at the top of the list as far as Winterfell story material I like.

Since they are keeping this Cersei vs Dany thing going for while I think the idea of Dany loosing a dragon in that fight will add drama to the plot.


Mike V. said...

Tyrion definitely knew but he wasn't in that Cliffside chat with Dany and Jorah. But yes, he certainly kept his mouth shut. I don't think Tyrion was at Castle Black when Sam showed up though. I think he was already gone so he didn't know Jon and him were good friends.

I don't think Tyrion is going to have another failed plan this closely after the other ones after Dany already scolded him. This sounds like a writer's solution to get the Kingdoms on board with the battle against the dead. Using precedence from the books in Mormont sending the hand of the wight down to KL. Touche' with Qyburn and the wight. That's why I thought the Hound/Mountain undead faceoff would be interesting. But, that would really suck if it was the Hound biting it next week.

They have spent half the season on Stark Reunions btw and a major battle last season on the Starks reclaiming their home...and now Littlefinger is getting his plot to try and ruffle the Stark feathers. Of course the adult actors get top billing on the show over the former child actors. I have never felt the Stark roles being diminished. If anything they've grown more important over the years. Arya's whole journey (minus last season) has been praised by critics and fans alike (minus Richard). Everyone she was paired with prior to her Braavos stint were usually the best scenes of an episode.

I don't think you give the non-Richard fans enough credit for caring about The Starks! This is no offense to you, but even you admit that your tastes are usually a little different. lol

Yeah...I'm sure it'll happen before the end (Dany losing a dragon)...And we only really have an attachment to Drogon...this worries me! We better not lose any more direwolves. Speaking of which...where the hell is GHOST??? (I know it's a budgetary thing...apparently direwolves are too close to wolves that they look silly cgi'd...where as the dragons have looked amazing this season) But I don't even remember the last time we saw Ghost. Was he still at The Wall or is he hanging at Winterfell?

Anonymous said...

What about this.

Beric dies and that leaves Lightbringer for Jon.

When I saw that sword on the previews it brought back so much information/history.
That sword would really make Jon a serious contender for PTWP or AzorAhai.

I thought Ghost was at the Wall.


Mike V. said...

Do we know for sure that is lightbringer?? That makes a lot of sense though. Would Longclaw go back to Jorah to be back in the Mormont family?

Yeah Ghost might still be at the wall. Doesn't make much sense though.

Stefan's review on TOTH

Anonymous said...

Melissandre called it lightbringer and so did some others. It makes some sense given the lord of light and Beric.


Mike V. said...

Stealing content again, but interesting tidbit (credit to U/fifthpilgrim on Reddit):

"Before Gendry goes rogue and tells Jon exactly who he is, Davos tries to convince him to use an alias. The fake name that Davos comes up with for Gendry is "Clovis" and appears to be a little insight into Gendry's future role in the show.

In the real world, there is a stone tool technology (see: spear/arrow heads and other stone tools) called Clovis. The significance of dragon glass (obsidian) this season, along with Gendry's skill as a smith highlights the importance of Davos' fake name for him. This appears to be a clever connection put in by the writers to suggest that Gendry will survive beyond the wall and will become the person to make the weapons out of the dragon glass for the war against the dead.

Edit - People are also pointing out how Clovis is the name of a Frankish king. Whatever the reason for the name choice, I think it's safe to assume that it was a very purposeful decision by the writers.

MJ said...

Jeez. 21 comments already ? What was with that scroll/letter that we could read all of ? Supposedly written by Sansa ?

Mike V. said...

MJ - I commented in the recap. I freeze framed it. It's the letter Cersei made Sansa send to Robb Stark after Joffrey became king asking Robb to come and bend the knee. It's going to be used by Littlefinger to create Chaos in the north between the Stark kids and those that support the Starks.

MJ said...

Didn't get to read your recap yet. Yesterday was in a work class for pretty much the whole day.

Hmmm - don't really remember Cersie making Sansa do that I guess. LOL

MJ said...

Sam is now the only male Tarly ! Wonder when he will find that out ? As for Jon/Drogon - yeah he senses the blood. I think Dany was impressed by his courage but surprised Drogon went along with it. LOL - I did not see 'turned on'. And yes - Jon being brought back to life is def not going away.

LOL on brother/cousin. Richard - you should be happy - the dead are finally at the gate. I know you complained if everyone else if covering distances so quickly why haven't the dead gotten there more quickly.

Bold plan to capture a Wight and bring it to KL. Wouldn't it be easier to have Cersei send a trusted person North to see the dead ? Just saying.

And just how does Cersei seem to know everything ? Who are her 'birds' ? Not sure I belelive either that she is pregnant.

Rhaegar's annullment and re-marriage is of course huge ! You meant Sam and Gilly packed up the book ? LOL You wrote Jon and Gilly. But yes - if they follow our modern type of lineage Jon would have a claim to the throne over Dany - but maybe not ? Rhaegar was not the king. He was the Prince. If the king dies his son becomes king. Rhaegar's & Dany's father died - making Rhaegar then Dany the next heirs. Since rhaegar never had the throne does it pass to his son ? Not sure here. But probably they will follow what lineage rules appear to be in our own world ie if Queen Elizabeth dies and Charles doe not take the throne then William does. And Williams son is above Harry in succession now.

Def feel like that reveal plus the continued talk of Jon's reincarnation are pointing real hard at the theory that Azor Ahai will be more then one person. Read awhile ago that it could be 3 actual persons.

LOL on Dirty Seven.

OK - will try to get to the comment now.

Mike V. said...

@MJ - No problem on the recap, I figured you were busy and I'm wordy as always. :)

Yeah it was way back in season 1. Only reason I remember is because I rewatched the show every year (except this year..Binge Mode podcast!! lol) and read the book! Robb got the letter and said something like "Sansa's handwriting, but the Queen's words" or maybe Maester Llewyn said it. But that's when he requested to call the banners and march to King's Landing to war!

@everyone - So, been having some discussions with coworkers and reading some more theories. We've been so hung up (Richard and me) on Tyrion being a possible Targaryen....that I've never really considered Jaime and Cersei possibly being the Targaryens.....this treads into book knowledge, so this was your "MAYBE SPOILER WARNING BUT NOT REALLY" - Aerys "Mad King" Targaryen had a thing for Joanna (?) Lannister (Tywin's wife). There are rumors in the books that he may have raped her at her wedding to Tywin. So the theory is that possibly Cersei and Jaime are Targaryen bastards and Tyrion is the ONLY legitimate Lannister descendent. (There are theories to the opposite tha Tyrion might be....and his bonds with the dragons in the show goes towards that potential)

But with the whole Ahor Azai...the original legend goes that he killed his wife and trapped her soul in a flaming sword called lightbringer to bring an end to the long night. This would lend credence to the theory that Jaime might be AA (along with that cave drawing from last week of a left handed/right gloved swordsman next to 2 other people (possibly Jon and Dany). That seems like a possible twist that GRRM could have up it's sleeve. You think one thing and then he goes another way.

D&D said they have one or 2 more big GRRM reveals but they won't be until the end of the series. (Shireen was one, Hodor was one...surely Jon's parentage is one since that's how they got the gig in the first place.....what if the reveal of AA is the final one??)

Anyway....just speculation at this point. Maybe it's too clean cut that Jon and Dany are the saviors of the long night. Something like Jaime being a total ass in the beginning to fully redeeming himself in the end to save mankind....that's kinda cool. He also has a V-Steel sword....and he has saved the kingdom before.

Mike V. said...

This map is pretty funny. Shows everywhere Jon has been in comparison to the White Walker journey. The WW journey is not entirely accurate. They were at the Land of Always Winter and the 3 eye raven tree. They're not on a direct path. But still funny to show everywhere Jon has been. Best comment: "Well, they're not called the White Runners" lol

MJ said...

LOL on the Re-animated Clegane bowl. I hope not - that would be silly.

Ravens - they don't show it everytime someone sends a Raven. that's all we'd see on the show if that was the case.

Yeah - I'm sure they loaded Dragon glass into the boat - but did we need to hear that conversation to know that ? I think not. And why explain that the Dragonglass kills them when they are trying to take one alive ?

Winterfel - I love Littlefinger ! He is a very amusing character. I love trying to figure out his plans and schemes. But I feel Sansa is getting weasely !.

Interesting about Clovis

Anonymous said...

Maybe Gendry and Qyborn should get together and build a dragon killer for real. I know, that's politically incorrect.

I read a little about Clovis several years ago. That's where my mind went when it came up on the show. I like the idea of him building some dragonstone weapons.

This article on swords seems a little incomplete, yet good and sort of dispells the idea that Beric's is Lightbringer. I can't see Sam giving up Heartsbane btw. I totally forgot that Thoros is the ONLY red priest on the show.

I'm trying to figure out the next steps after Dany saves JOn. I can't see her getting her troops up there in time, but maybe with Scotty in the transporter room they can, lol. So, if it's Dany and drogon saving them, what's logically next? I'm thinking Jon becomes very grateful and maybe bends the knee.

Which brings up a good question. IF Jon is no longer King, who does he lead, how does he lead and doesn't that diminish him? The show has proven flexible with common sense, but Jon needs to remain King if he is to be what we think he is. Otherwise he's just another bastard. But, maybe after he looses his kingship he can unite all the houses under Dany and we can all sit around the camp fire and sing silly songs.

Given the above his Targaryan heritage may take a while to come out. Imagine if him being a Targaryan came out now? The Northern houses would no longer follow him. And the Targaryans already have a leader. Which means it won't likely be until mid next season. Which means Jon may not get back to see Bran until then. But, I am of course getting ahead of myself.


MJ said...

SIGH! Ok - the show is saying Dany could be interested in Jon. But mostly it says she is intrigued by him as leader and possible war partner

Mike V. said...

Quick responses - Gotta get to a meeting. :-/

Ravens – EXACTLY! Lol

Agreed on Dragonglass.

Littlefinger – that a-hole needs to die! But all in good time. Lol

I’ll have to check out both articles later.

My coworker thinks Drogon may just fly up there and save Jon by himself. (due to their newly formed bond) Maybe! But that surely is a long flight!

He may lose his King of the North title (which would be weak) but with the news out there that he’s the rightful king of the andals that might garner him support. We’ll just have to see.

He may be a Targaryen, but he’s Lyanna Stark’s SON! Ned, “You may not have my name, but you have my blood”. It’s all how you position it! Lol

Anonymous said...

Map--proves my point. The show is silly on this point now. Sam could be at Eastwatch by opening credits next ep, lol! And why isn't Gilly pregnant?

LOL, well, I would want my best weapons when I'm highly outnumbered and tyring to get in close for a capture. IE, you'll likely have to kill a bunch of them to get one to take back.

Yea, I know we don't see every raven guys. But, seriously we do see the ones that are important. And that information would make a big difference at Winterfell. We should see next ep. But, my theory is Dany saves Jon, not the people out of Winterfell or even Castle Black. If they had got the raven on his mission, I couldn't imagine Arya for example not going to help! Bronn could let them know, but he convienently can't see everthing which means he gives the writers a lot of wiggle room. Also, the writers need to develop more Winterfell drama for whatever reason, so it just makes sense they continue to think of Jon as an "absent(not in the North), uncaring leader".

I agree, it seems kind of a cookie cutter answer that Jon and Dany are the saviors at this point. So, a surprise is sure to happen, maybe several surprises. And I'm buying the cave drawing--of course there could develop another man wearing a gloved hand. I just doubt it.

If I had to choose which Lannister kids are Targaryan, I would go with Tyrion. And partly because he's short. Hair color can be random.

As the British would say, those Targaryens are a "randy" bunch.


Anonymous said...

I really agree with a lot of this review. NOt all of it, but it points out some of the same stuff I have, like at Winterfell. Probably presented much better than by me.

From the article:

"But nothing, and I mean nothing, was worse than the bulls**t going on in Winterfell. If I may? (clears throat)"

"Honestly, if Jon doesn’t get home to fulfill his duties as a king, Sansa may be forced to usurp him if she wants to hold the North together at all."


Mike V. said...

You're not alone in your criticisms. A lot are saying the show is suffering by the shorter seasons. To me it seems like season 2 of Rome. They knew they were only able to do one more season so they fit the entire story in those 10-13 episodes. Here D&D want to wrap up the story. They probably had 4 seasons worth of story they could've done but they want to move on and do other things. Plus then you're getting into 10 seasons of this show. I'm on the fence with this. If you do 10 episodes, you don't get episodes like last week. Or it's not as great. They would have to do 10 episodes with a longer shooting schedule and bigger budget to flush out characters like the Tarlys and make us care when they're killed. But instead....we get an episode like last sunday where they need to move the pieces around to where the story needs them. I enjoyed it, but I get the arguments.

And this is an example where GRRM's books will add a lot more details and like you's easy to sympathize with the time he takes to write this story now. Of course this hinges on George going down a similar path as the show with the high level points.

I want to respond to everything but in meetings the rest of the day. I'll try to get to it later!

MJ said...

Any one see the you tube of Seth Meyers inviting Melisandre to a baby shower and Jon Snow to a dinner party ? Too funny.

It definitely feels more rushed then previous seasons. Now no time for the journy - just put the characters where they need to be. And while some might not like that - it also makes everything feel so much more urgent - which is exciting.

Anonymous said...

That was funny, "it wasn't me".


Mike V. said...

I saw the youtube of seth inviting Jon to a dinner party (think I shared it again last week as an example of "jon being a brooder" recurring jokes)...not sure I saw the one with Melissandre too. But they're hilarious!

Anonymous said...

One thing that this made occur to me is Brienne killing Melissandre! She killed Renly in a way. Can you imagine how Brienne would respond if she knew that.


Mike V. said...

Not a bad thought there Richard. But, I think Arya will do it. She wasn't happy that she took Gendry PLUS Melissandre told Arya they'll meet again. And she told Varys that she needs to return to Westeros. I assumed she knew she'd die here.

Btw...the actress playing Mel was pregnant during the shooting of this season which is why they shipped her off to Volantis. I'm sure she will bring back something important though.

Anonymous said...

Yea, so many people want to kill so many people. I could see Sam wanting to kill Dany, I wish that would become a plot line. BUT, I don't think it will. I'm actually scared Dany will save Jon and he'll bend the knee and there will be a full on establishment of the "good guys",lol. Ick. Poor Cersei, it will be harder to pull for her when she goes nuts and doesn't go after the WW.

It would be an interesting exercise to see who had the most people after him/her? Off the top of my head.
1. Night King--can he be killed?
2. Jon--by the WW group.--Who knows if he can be killed for certain now?
#1 and #2-- I'm not really sure which is which
3. Dany--by all of those who've lost friends and their freedom due to her dragons. Maybe she should be #1,lol. I can see her taken out in a heroine saving the world kind of way.
4. Cersei---this would probably be the character most would identify as #1. I'm just not sure how many people are still upset with what she did at the Sept? A case could be made for her to be #3. I still think she's Jaime's
5. Littlefinger--Wow, take your pick--Arya, Brienne, someone from the Vale, maybe even Sansa.
6. Arya, but most of those may already be dead, lol. I think she'll go out in a blaze of glory fighting the WW. Although I could see her doing a faceless man thing at the WW camp. What an idea that just hit me. Can't you just see Arya taking the face of the wight brought back and then her doing some behind the lines kind of work? Only problem, that's supposed to be Bran's area.

With this exercise, I'm thinking Littlefinger might be the next to go, lol. I mean none of the others are. Am I missing someone?


Anonymous said...

One of the things that bothers me lately is Jaime's lack of on screen friends with the army. It really bothers me. He didn't know that Qyborn had such good spies. You don't see him with the military leaders. Euron doesn't like him.

Just saying, the guy's power is not portrayed as coming from his relationships. He should be tight with the gold cloak leader as an example and we should see some of that on screen, at least a little. Which isn't good for a leader like him.

Could have ramifications if he kills Cersei or goes against her.

I don't see Bronn as his true friend but I could see an arguement that he is. Sadly his only true friend is Tyrion.


Mike V. said...

Jaime has one friend - Brienne.

still in meetings. so can't respond to much right now. But want to!

There could be one cringe-worthy "bend the knee moment" when Jon asks Dany for her hand in marriage. LOL

Anonymous said...

I started to put Brienne down as a friend but decided she's not really at all like an army budy. Here's what I mean, USUALLY(not always) an army budy would go into battle with him against Jaime's enemies. One of their primary motivations is their willingness to share fox hole with you. The problem with Brienne is she is MUCH more concerned about her prior oaths than fighting with Jaime. Now she may no longer have those oaths, but until she is given a hard choice of to fight with Jaime or serve somewhere else, I don't include her. I think she will fight with Jaime as a result of the common enemy at some point.

That's the kind of thinking about Bronn too. He's made it clear his primary motivation is money--a sell sword. We like to not believe that and I hope that he's into helping for more than just money. BUT, he said he wasn't going to fight dragons.
I'll bet you very soon, he's working with Tyrion since he wants to be on the winning side. I don't know how Dany will take to him though? Eventually I could see Bronn and Jaime fighting the common enemy.

Bottom line to me is that Jaime could find himself on an island/by himself very soon. Probably not for long. But, there's a reason the show has made him unlike most other military leaders.


Mike V. said...

I really think Jaime will find his way back to Brienne before this series is over. Not sure what would be in their future, but there certainly is a bond there. Even if they never meet again in the books (they will....they're actually together right now heading to Lady Stoneheart)....the TV Show is too aware of their chemistry to not let them have some scene together in the long night!

All your points are valid though.

I do want to still respond to your previous comments. Just have been in non-stop meetings since yesterday! maybe this afternoon.

Anonymous said...

I just read where HBO leaked their own episode 6! That's just stupid.


Mike V. said...

Have you read that they've been hacked this year? It's pretty serious. And foreign distributers have been leaking content too. It's a mess. But the ratings keep growing every week. They're over 30 million viewers including streaming.'s the most pirated show too with over 100 million streams I think. lol

It's still event television and I won't be looking for it until 9pm on Sunday!

Anonymous said...

Yes, I have read about the hacks. BUT, the ONLY leaks are from HBO themselves really and yes that includes their LICENSED affiliates. The hackers haven't leaked anything from what I just read.

Yea, I'm not looking for the hack.


Mike V. said...

Yeah there's so many moving parts and transfer of hands before it goes live...and there's so much interest in this show (more than any other show) that this stuff is hard to contain.

The hackers actually leaked worse stuff...personal information of the stars of the show. email addresses, phone numbers, stuff like that. They have the episode scripts which they leaked...but they don't have the actual episodes.

Mike V. said...

Okay going back to your 8/15 4:47 comment.

Wait, who is pulling for Cersei at this point anyway? Lol Speaking of her, some experts think she is not lying about the pregnancy. But most agree it spells her doom due to the prophecy.

Sam killing Dany – I dunno…this is where sharing info would be helpful. If Dany knew a Tarly helped Jorah she might feel guilt for what she’s done. But there has to be a reason they’re not bringing this stuff up. (Or it’s just because there’s no time)

I was going through your list and trying to follow your logic, but I dunno. I agree Littlefinger’s run may be over soon. Seems like since he’s a large reason for a lot of this stuff happening he should be around until the end. But, it just feels like major characters should be taken off the board this late in the game. Right now it’s feeling like everyone is untouchable and has a reason to exist until the end. They got rid of most of the minor players. Except this Magnificent 7, Fellowship of the Wight…whatever you want to call them……somebody or somebodies in that group have to bite it this week. Beric is at the top of the list. Hound makes sense, but I hope he carries on a bit longer.

As for Jon and the Night King – Surely they can be killed. Jon won’t be until the end though as he was brought back to play a specific role in all of this.

Anonymous said...

From above.

"Wait, who is pulling for Cersei at this point anyway? Lol Speaking of her, some experts think she is not lying about the pregnancy. But most agree it spells her doom due to the prophecy." Answer: I have been kind of. It's like pulling for the biggest underdog,her and Jaime living happily ever after, lol. And I've read some others.

OK, you're going to have to enlighten about how her being pregnant is about her younger brother killing her--prophesy? Her Mom died in child birth, so I could see that perhaps and would just leave Jaime devastated. And again, he really doesn't have any friends to support him. But, where's the drama with that re KL and Dany's conquest. I mean once Cersei's dead all the people who understand the dragon threat would likely very relucatantly give up. BTW, with the timelines going by at warp speed, she could be giving birth next ep, lol. And seriously, if she gives birth in like ep 3 next season I'm calling TOTAL BS given how quickly every thing else is going by.

Re my list, well there's no question about the most qty when you consider the combatants in the WW war--Jon and the NK. Honestly LF hasn't done much lately. He's just kind of hovering around looking creepy. I don't see him accomplishing anything so in a way his plotline is ending. Unless they need to come up with something for him to do. REcall, that's why I was thinking he might pursue an alliance with Dany or Cersei, something for his character to do.

ONe thing I believe is the NK knows who Jon is, all about him. It looks like he has the 3 eyed raven thing going for him too, or some version thereof. Probably better than Bran.

NK and Jon-seriously, I don't think either one of them is going to be easy to get rid of. Unless of course the fickle lord of light doesn't bring Jon back, lol.

Has ep 6 title been released yet? Maybe they'll call "Jon's Weak Knees",lol.

The reason they're not bringing stuff up is D&D are tired of doing this show and they are rushing things, just my opinion. They went at a snails pace for years and I asked for quicker. I guess I got, but a lot of people are complaing about plot holes, warp speed travel, Scotty teleporting people, alliances that make no since and some things like Same not knowing about Dany burning his family alive. Cersei's pregnancy will be a timeline issue too.


Mike V. said...

Ep 6 Photos -

Episode is titled "Beyond the Wall"

Prophecy - The only part of the prophecy provided on the show is about Robert having many children and Cersei having only 3. "Gold will be their crowns and gold will be their shrouds." If she's pregnant with a 4th child and the prophecy is true it will not come to term. And yes...I mentioned in an earlier comment that we should be able to measure time by Cersei's pregnancy (and referred to the reddit joke that will measure by Gendry's hair growth lol)

Yep...the general consensus is D&D wanted to end the series and have pushed fast forward. I get it though...these shows that run on forever...people can lose interest, feel like things won't pay off, quality can go down. Rushing through stuff kinda stinks, but they gotta move people where they need them.

In meetings being brief. (it's been a rough day!)

Mike V. said...

RE: the Cersei stuff - Yeah I know you always have been pulling for that. But I think it's clear they've made her the villain and they're playing up that Jaime will have to make a choice one day. It won't be happily ever after for them. The fact that he left Tyrion go probably lends to Cersei's "betrayal" comment she made in this past episode.

I agree on LF. Though they seem to have him starting something up now that he's been brewing since the end of last season. So who knows?? I just think Arya won't have any of it in the end.

Interesting point on NK possibly being like Bran and knowing who Jon is. Of course..does this dude even talk?? lol What will him knowing signify? If he has Bran's skills then he'd definitely be better than Bran since he's been around for awhile (we guess, though you had a different theory on that)

Anonymous said...

It was a hollow tease this season between Cersei and Jamie. She took him back and got pregnant. On the surface the start of happily ever after. But, we know it's a sham. I've been pulling hard for it and I'm glad they at least gave it something. But, I am becoming concerned that Jamie will be alone. And Cersei of course will be dead before the end. Of course the cave drawing gives some evidence that Jamie will become a hero of some type. But heroes of war are normally dead.

It's interesting that the drawings didn't have any armies, but more individuals. Is it possible that we're not going to see a mass of men fighting, like the Battle of the bastards? I'm sure there will be some of that but instead of a huge engagement deciding the winner instead it will be more the small scale efforts that make the most gain? There are only 4 armies of breathing men--Lanisters, those around Winterfell, dothraki and unsullied. They are each less now than before. And Jon says even all together may not be enough.

Do you think Cersei will die in child birth?


Anonymous said...

BTW, looking at the cave painting again. Dany is no good with a sword. She hasn't even practiced. Doesn't make sense that would be her as one of the three. I could see one of those three being either Brienne or Arya well before Dany.


Mike V. said...

4 armies – don’t forget Euron’s fleet too…though I’m not sure how that would come into play unless they’re shooting flaming arrows from sea to land. Lol

I think we just see Jaime’s arc differently. Granted, you did say you know it’s a sham. But, I see Jaime on a redemption arc. When he’s with Cersei he is not his best self. When he was with Brienne we saw his true self. He might be ALONE…but he also might do something self-sacrificing in the end to save mankind. Perhaps charging towards Dany and Drogon was a hint of that.

I think if there is a giant Ice vs. Fire battle in the end people would be disappointed. Granted, GRRM likes to subvert expectations. So maybe in the book there won’t be a big battle (I still think there will be)….but for a climactic TV show finish? It’s coming.

I pondered Cersei dying in childbirth…there certainly is a theme for it on the show. But, even if that child was born wouldn’t that mean Cersei had 4 children? Even if she didn’t live to raise one? Though…Jaime being left in the world without cersei and with a child might solve your “not alone” worries. Lol

Cave Paintings – right…and they both have V-steel now too. Granted, this is assuming that cave painting was meant to depict 3 literal people. Lol I think Arya getting that dagger is meant to be significant. We know the dagger has significance due to it being in the book Sam read. Just makes me think it’ll be important in taking out the night king.

Anonymous said...

Does this mean a dragon will be lost?


Anonymous said...

OK, I'm a little confused by what you said. ARe you saying a giant ice vs fire battle would be a disappointing end game decider? Why? It worked well last season.

I could easily see the dagger being key in taking out the NK. Although it was around before and he may still be alive. But, SOMETHING has to be key. I think he's going to be virtually impossible to kill. AGAIN, I've been trying to figure out if he's the original NK or not. If he's the original then he's obviously been able to live through significant battles in the past, which makes him from a practical purpose, unkillable!!! I mean, his side lost, but he lived--that means a lot and is at the core of why I keep asking the question of is this guy the original NK. A couple of weeks ago this hit me--if he's the original NK, then he's likely unkillable!

If he's NOT the original the the children of the forest made another NK for a reason. And I want to know that reason.

Jaime--we really see him pretty much the same. Just because I WANT him to be with Cersei happily ever after, doesn't mean I see it happening. NO, he's on a different arc and as I said, I can see Brienne a part of it down the road. I can see him alone, without his army--that's a HUGE deal. He's always been a part of something like the gold cloaks or army. He's always been a leader. So, a continuation of his arc to include him being alone ties into what you're saying.

And, Cersei's child could be still born. I don't know, I'm thinking she's not pregnant.


Anonymous said...

Yea, what's up with Euron, Yara, Theon. Somebody put out an APB for them, asap.

I guess we'll have to wait to see the usurpers Yara/Theon kill the Greyjoy leader.


Mike V. said...

Some are pondering that Jon may unintentionally summon one of the dragons (ideally should be Rhaegal, named after his father) into battle next week. We shall see! thing we haven't discussed in this blog too much was Rhaegar's obsession with the prophecy. he originally thought that HE was Azor Ahai...but then he had a prophecy that he would have 3 children. His wife Elia could only have 2 (she was unable to have a 3rd child), so he was so obsessed with prophecy that some theorize that's why he left Elia for Lyanna and remarried. He needed to make the prophecy true. This child was so important to him that it may have been him that wanted to keep him secret from the realm. These podcasts I'm listening to think we'll get a flashback or Bran vision to this wedding and get more background on rhaegar before the end. We'll see!

As for a dragon dying next week...that would be sad but maybe!?!

Ice vs. Fire battle - sorry I messed up a key word. I meant if there ISN'T an Ice vs. Fire battle it would be disappointing.

NK - if he's the original maybe they didn't have what they needed last time to kill him last time? Maybe this dagger is key? Kind of like harry potter, lord of the rings.....Voldemort was down and out but not gone forever...same with Sauron. Evil needs to be vanquished for good.

Agreed on Jaime!

Cersei - I originally thought that she's not pregnant and may still think it. But, a lot of people I read/listen to are not questioning it. They think she is..but they do acknowledge the prophecy so everything just assumes this is a sign of the end for her (but could still be next season)...still like we both said..if she is preggers...time really needs to slow down over the next 8 eps! lol

lol on greyjoy stuff...I think they just can't fit it all in one episode. Could you imagine if they added greyjoys to this ep? It was already crazy. But yeah I would think they have to bring them back next ep.

Mike V. said...

Hibberd sums up the Azor Ahai theories using some book knowledge

Anonymous said...

Yea, I read a theory where Rhaggaer could be AA but he's dead. And now Jon IS Lightbringer. But, that seems such a huge stretch to me. Rhaeggar must have felt really dumb for a split second being killed by the mere mortal Robert Baratheon. AA born in smoke and salt. I don't know of anybody who qualifies for that really. Salt could be related to salt water.

Well, I've postulated that a dragon could be lost in KL fight or from NK(which would then be NK dragon). I just really believe one will die soon. Esp after Dany calling them her children. The WW army would then have giants and a dragon!! I wonder if the zombie dragon would still use fire?? Maybe it could kill with a freezing spray??

Cersei--just because it wasn't in the show, there is the valonqar prophecy.

They could make the eps longer. So far, the eps haven't been as long as I thought they would have been.


Mike V. said...

The last 2 episodes are the longest episodes Thrones has ever done. This week's is an hour and 10 minutes. Finale is 1.5 hours. Next season the rumor is they'll all be 1.5 hours. But that's not confirmed.

At the end of Hibberd's article it is a valid point that GRRM has said prophecies shouldn't be trusted. There is a chance that there is no true AA. And everyone has their role to play in the end game. It's probably Bran that would have this knowledge. (Hibberd covers the salt/smoke stuff and the bleeding star stuff in his write-up btw)

That is really interesting with the zombie-dragon. Definitely seems like a possibility. But would they kill off Drogon after he's gotten the majority of the dragon screentime? It would probably one of the other ones right? Maybe Viserion since Rhaegon would probably be Jon's dragon. Freezing!

Cersei - Yeah there is...the reason it may have not been in the show because they wanted to hold back that surprise. But of course book readers just bring everything up these days since we're past the books. But just the fact that they said 3 children in the show...this is a 4th child so it potentially calls prophecies into question. If she is pregnant and DOES have the child, maybe that's the point? just signifies her end is coming. Some suggested that the baby might be the valonquar (i.e. dying in childbirth)...but even though the title of these children is twisted (nephew, Niece, son, daughter??) don't think brother comes into play. lol

Mike V. said...

GRRM on time and distances in the books (obviously applicable in tv show now too lol):

""The reason I am never specific about dates and distances is precisely so that people won't sit down and do this sort of thing.

My suggestion would be to put away the ruler and the stopwatch, and just enjoy the story."

Anonymous said...

What % do you think she is pregnant?

I just read Hibberd's article on Azor. Not really much there we haven't brought up. And he includes the point that some sounded like they were but ended up not being. As I said, nobody fits it perfectly. Always requires some wiggle room. Hibberd missed one huge key element about the case against Dany. She doesn't use swords, Azor does. She's really not even a fighter. It would be great if he appeared and that it wasn't Jon or Dany.

Hibberd seems sure Azor IS the PTwPromised. Same guy. I'm not so certain, in the books it's not clear. The show may make him the same though.

Smoke and salt is a strange combination. And it's still a stretch about the salt water. You could have salt more clearly in a cave that was lined with salt deposits for example.

I've been thinking about Winterfell, KL and the Dragonstone cave drawings off and on today. I am still thinking the WW army makes it at least to Dragonstone area, that far South. So, that would mean Winterfell would have likely fallen. AND it's also possible they will make it into KL area. So, it's possible Dany's vision is the aftermath of a battle with the WW army in KL.

Something Beric said--"in the end, death wins" or something similar. That's really an important point. Because even if the "living army" wins, they will eventually be dead, we can't escape it. The WW army is growing faster than the "living army" due to the speed at which one is converted vs the other has babies and they take time to grow. I could see some scenes where the recently killed are burned by the dragons to prevent more wights.


Mike V. said...

oh come on...don't put me on the spot! lol I'll go 51% :)

Yeah it's a good point about Dany not being a fighter. I one fits it perfectly, and that's probably by design.

Did you see the asterix on TPTwP? He said for purposes of the article they're assuming it's the same. The show kinda made that same assumption in the Mel's episode with Dany. Well those characters made that assumption.

Well there's salt water and smoke - Jaime. lol But the bleeding star....(the comet, jon being born at starfall etc...) certainly seems like the dead will get past wintefell....that's where Wun Wun the giant is too....(if bran's vision was of the future and they reanimated wun wun. Very good point on the dead growing faster. That's why there needs to be some magic way to take them all out in one blow. (like kill the night king or something like that) And who better to do that than a ninja assassin? lol

Good point on dragons too.

Anonymous said...

So, that's the idea, yes, to find out where you are coming from re Cersei's pregnancy. I tend to think she's not preggers. Probably like 2/3rds.

I agree the Azor prophesy is intentionally not obviously met. Otherwise, no mystery, no drama--lol.

Jaime--we don't know about the comet/bleeding star with Jaime. I mean, nothing has been reported but that doesn't mean it won't be disclosed later.

Ninja assasin, lol. Again, I say she's going to go out in a blaze of glory. So, that could be it.


Mike V. said...

So I heard this on a podcast today straight from the mouth of grrm in 2014. This implies maybe theory night is not the end of the story. They speculated maybe that the battle against them will be like episode 3 next year and then maybe they figure out the ruling afterwards. I don't know about that but maybe. They even said maybe that war will wrap up in winds of winter and dream of spring would be the fallout and throne stuff. Maybe??? Here's the quotes:

"Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?"
Martin also spoke about Tolkien’s treatment of war:

"The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that’s become the template. I’m not sure that it’s a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that."

Mike V. said...


Mike V. said...

Ugh autocorrect. "Theory night" = the long night lol

Anonymous said...

Well, there you have it. As I said, Cersei vs Dany is not clear which is "good". And D&D did a good job showing Dany as not so good in her burning the food. I've said it before, but the fact that each side has some good and bad, no clear definitions is one major attraction for me. I've always said it would be neat if the NK won, not expected but hugely different. Lately, I've been wondering if he's beatable. And I would be very happy with him not being beatable.

This is why I've never bought into an absolute hero on this show. But, when Jon bends the knee to Dany and they unite it's going to be hard to avoid them being the "good guys" vs the NK and Westeros.

I really want a backstory on the NK, his motivations, needs, those he helps, etc. I can't believe he's just about killing the living and raising zombies as some kind of mind numb robot.

Yes, Dream of Spring. WE've posted about it before where the show will end with elements of Spring. Perhaps even showing the good and bad of the victors.


Mike V. said...

Yeah...I still see the NK ultimately losing, but the show/books may still deal with the aftermath of establishing a new government/reign over the realm.

I think we do need that NK backstory....just a little more than we saw. I think they've been waiting until it's the main threat (i.e. now). Hopefully we get something this season or early next season.

Mike V. said...


That leaked episode has gone mainstream. Someone at work told me they already watched it, but haven't spoiled me yet. lol I am prepared for a pretty crazy episode though!

Anonymous said...

As we're posting it becomes more clear that the books and series are about the game of thrones, lol. IE, about the rulers. Not the NK, nor his threat. The later being what I have for years considered the "big"/"major" story. Now I'm starting to see that NK as an interruption which will cause a reset of sorts. Been done in the past and again. A kind of cleansing if you will. MAYBE that's the purpose of the NK and why the CoF made him? To help mankind in a way?

For example, what's going on in Winterfell now is just silly and I don't think worth my time. BUT, what's going on there totally represents a "game of thrones"--the politics, back stabbing, etc.


Mike V. said...

I always saw the battle against the night king being something that would cause the realm (mostly) to band together against a common foe...and perhaps it would be something that would unite people under Dany or Jon. But I never really thought about there potentially being more fighting/politicking to do after that battle is done. So that's pretty interesting to me.

I think even the Children of the Forest admitted it was a mistake to make the white walkes/night king. They used it as a weapon to defeat man, but then it ended up being hell-bent on killing everything.

The winterfell game of thrones. It's a good reminder that "Game of Thrones" Is indeed plural. It's not all about the IRON throne. There are several seats of power in Westeros and Essos and we've been seeing changing of the guards left and right.

I'm sure all of that winterfell stuff is just killing time as important plots are put into place.

Anonymous said...

I thought I read that too, about the CoF regretting making the NK, etc. But, why did they want to kill man?? That's been a question of mine too.


Mike V. said...

Children of the Forest are the original inhabitants of Westeros. The Andals were the first men and they came to Westeros (from Essos??) and drive the Children out. This is why the Children were as far south as Dragonstone. They were driven north of the wall with the White walkers and then Brandon the Builder Stark built THE WALL trapping some of MAN up there (i.e. future wildlings) with them.

That's the short version. I think even Jon spoke about it in the Jon/Dany cave scene. I think some of the Blu-Ray special features go into the Children of the Forest and the history of all that. I'm sure wikis have it too.