Monday, July 17, 2017

Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 1: Dragonstone (Discussion)

Hello friends and welcome back (finally!) for Game of Thrones season 7!  I'm super excited about the new season and all of the lengthy discussions I'm sure we're going to have.  Unfortunately, the timing of the new season kickoff coincided with my vacation so I will be unable to provide a recap for the premiere.  But, I plan to be locking myself in a room and streaming the episode so that I can join the discussion briefly while I'm away and in full when I return.  So please, start commenting and I'll catch up!


MJ said...

God I love Lady Mormont ! I want her on the throne ! Look at Sansa - publicy disagreeing with the King of the North. Hope Jon doesn't regret his decision about the Karstarks and Umbers. Probably it will come up - and they will fight with him this time. Cause jon announced women will also train to fight and one of the ones to keep the family castle was a girl. Loved Sansa admitting that she learned alot from Cersei !

I swear that thewhole time Stannis was at Dragonstone we did not see all those dragons carved into the walls. SO I am assuming that Euron's future surprise for Cersie will be someone's dead body or somthing like that ?

So a couple of days with the Men without Banners and the Hound has grown a conscience ? Hmmm. We'll just go with it. LOL Also - since when was there a castle for the night watch called Eastwatch by the Sea ?

Just how much time has passed from finale to premier ? Baby Sam is HUGE.

I could not have told you what Ed Sheeran looked like - and I know he is not the first singer to guest - but really that was a totally wasted scene.

“Tell them winter came for House Frey” is the new “The Lannisters send their regards.”

Mike V. said...

Loved the premiere! Streamed it on my iPad in a different room with a few interruptions. Lol

I will try to comment later on everything. But the hound and his conscience. I think his experiences with black water, arya and Ian Mc Shane's group have helped him evolve. I watched on HBO go and there was an inside look with benioff and Weiss. They said the scene was meant to show an evolution in his character from where he started. How about him seeing stuff in the flames? What the hell does that mean?? Loved when he said it was just his luck her he ended up with a bunch of fire loving freaks or whatever. Since he's been afraid of fire since his brother burned him.

As for passage of time...a lot of time passed last season between scenes. Time it took for Euron to build ships, for tyrells and martells and greyjoys to travel to Dany and of course for dang and crew to sail from meereen to westeros. And of course they showed passage of time in oldtowne by how long Sam was repeatedly doing his jobs (nasty business). How about jorah being in oldtowne too? And dragon stone unintentionally having a cache of dragon glass?? Looks like Jon and dany may unite earlier than I expected. Also interesting that Sansa mentions the war with the night king may happen before the war with cersei. Always thought the war with the white walkers would be the conclusion. I'm sure it still can be. Also Sansa and her bs about Jon listening to her. It all makes sense but she still never told him about the vale coming to aid (and apparently Based on the in depth look she's still mad she's not getting enough credit for that. Really???)

Ed sheeran - totally out of place in the ep. But apparently they did it because maisie (arya) is a huge fan and they wanted to surprise her. lol there's an interview on ew.

Loved danys arrival at dragon stone and the cold open with arya. Great stuff!! I'll try to bust out the laptop later and write more. (On phone right now)

Mike V. said...

EW Links:

Maisie Williams Interview:

Euron Interview:

Hibberd Recap:

Mike V. said...

Did everyone notice littlefinger's Valaryan (sp) steel dagger that was used in s1 was also in the book sam was reading? I had heard it would be coming back into play. But obviously anything forged with that steel is important against the walkers. But interesting it was called out so prominently.

MJ said...

So people are hypothasizing that The Hound is Azor Ahai since he saw the stuff in the flames. I know lots said Jon Snow - but I think it is Dany.

Melisandre states "When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. The bleeding star has come and gone, and Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai reborn!".

Arya - wasn't happy with her declaration that she's going to kill the Queen. She needs to go to Winterfel! Stat !

Don't remember Baelish and the dagger from S1. LOL

But I heard the actress playing Sansa said her character is not so likable this year. I think she will connive with Baelish - though she should know better. I don't know that she wants credit - but she is def tired of being put to the side and not listened too. Funny that her and Cersei do have things in common - they are used as barter and trade. And people do not take them seriously. Thinking that is changing - or she will make it change any way. She def keeps telling Jon he has to be smarter. She said it before battle of the bastards - and Jon was not smart there.

And yes - interesting that she said Cersei can wait til after the Walker war.

Mike V. said...

There's actually 2 prophecies in the books. There is azor and the prince that was promised. Some theorize they're the same some think it's dany and Jon respectively. The hound is interesting. lol part of the prophecy was being born from fire or something and he did get burned as a child. Hmmmm

The dagger was used to try and kill bran so he couldn't rat out cersei and Jaime. Never was revealed in show who ordered the hit. It's Joffrey in books. But littlefinger was probably involved in the meddling and the dagger was lost in a bet to tyrion. Long story but that blade is in the book that sam was reading.

Will write more later if I can. :)

Mike V. said...

Checked out the reddit discussion on the episode. Some funny and good observations:

"I will not punish sons and daughters for the crimes of their fathers." - Obviously refers to Jon's upbringing, but also sets up a meeting between him and Dany Targaryan (daughter of the Mad King)

Funny observation on Reddit (sorry for the language but too hilarious to edit out LOL)

"Ominous speeches now accepted as a form of ID for House Stark." then response:

MEERA: This is Brandon Stark.
EDD: How do I know that's true?
BRAN: Thousands of years ago, the darkness...
EDD: Fuck me, you sound just like your brother.

Reddit is always a good source to find popular observations and comments because it sorts them by the most upvoted. lol

Mike V. said...

Melisandre's comment - There's been lots of interpretations of that comment (which I think is from the books). The Red Star obviously a lot of people think of the comet.....but I think Jon's death in the book reflects a lot of the same words in that prophecy as well. There are other ones. I think if you look up azor ahai wiki they give you the possible scenarios. But yeah Dany is a popular choice

Arya - Well Cersei is on her list....I think she's dead set on taking her out. But probably Jaime will end up doing it first. Another reddit comment theorized if she starts "boning" Euron then he'll really be pissed enough to do it. And that would kinda mirror her behavior in the books as she cheated on Jaime much more than just with Lancel in the book. And he found out about it from Tyrion. They skipped all that in the show. (not sure if that's spoilery or not....tough to tell what's a spoiler vs. good back story these days lol)

Sansa - The problem with her attitude (and this is in the writing and not her character) is that she withheld information from Jon that would've changed the battle plan. I guess they tried to cover it in that she didn't think she'd be taken seriously. But, she really didn't try to give Jon the intel. Jon kept asking "TELL ME TELL ME ANOTHER PLAN. I NEED HELP!" (basically) and she said "i don't know anything about battles." ummmm....seriously?? It was all to make the arrival of the knights of the vale as a surprise at the last minute (like Gandalf with the riders of Rohan in Two Towers).

And yes Lady Mormont rocks!! :)

Finally had my laptop out so I could write a little more. I haven't stopped thinking about the episode. I want to watch again! No time for that though. Heading home tomorrow so I'll be back in the swing of things Wednesday.

More importantly - where's Richard? He's been quiet today. lol

Anonymous said...

HI guys. Lots going on today through Wed, so not a lot of time.
1. The idea of Jon battling the WW first is something I provided some time ago. Recall that I said Jon will fight them and fail somewhat. Meanwhile Dany will be focused on KL. It will be after those seperate engagements by Jon and Dany that she will come and help fight the WW. At least that's been my thoughts for quite a while now.
2. I agree re the singer, didn't know him, still don't. Was waiting for Arya to kill them all, but she would probably wait until night and slit their throats.
3. The Hound and Jaime have gone through big changes. I took what he saw in the fire as nothing really special. That Thoros and Dondarion see the same thing. The point being that he saw that in spite of his fear of fire. That he needs to fight the WW.
4. Dragonglass. Seriously I am embarrassed that I didn't figure out it came from dragonstone last season. BTW, as I heard Sam it was naturally occuring in a mountian in Dragonstone, like a mineral. May need to be mined.
5. Sansa didn't and doesn't trust Jon. She's become cynical and probably for good reasons. IMHO that's why she didn't tell Jon about Peter's nights. Also, Sansa reminds me of someone who is good at finding faults but hasn't or doesn't play the game, like a Monday Morning Armchair QB. Many "know" this or that to do, but when push comes to shove they are too afraid to actually do something for fear of being wrong. It's always easier and safer to be on the sidelines criticising. I hate those types btw.
6. Kids fighting wars with swords and spears(even women and old men,etc) is really stupid on the face of it. I thought that was silly. I get the emotional feel good nature and emphasis on the WW battle being important for mankind. But, there are a LOT of better ways to have them help than handle a spear or sword. Again, just stupid. If you want I could provide a list, LOL. BTW, it kept occuring to me that Jon is NOT a Stark through all of those scenes.
7. I am probably the ONLY one who had these thoughts, but I knew it was Arya very early on giving the toast. ABsolutely knew when the girls were called out to serve the wine. But, that's not what I am going to be crucified over. My likely unpopular thoughts are about Arya and how she ridiculously pulled all of this off. I mean making the face takes a while,getting rid of the body, getting the poison takes a while, etc, etc. It just seemed ridiculous to buy. But, it's a fantasy show.

More to paste since over the character count.


Anonymous said...

8. Euron is a dead man walking, LOL.
9. I think some will try to betray Jon but they may be influenced by Peter. In some ways I don't know why he doesn't hook up with Cersei. In many ways that would make more sense. I mean he could kill her at some time in the future after getting throne, as a plan anyway.
10. YES, YES. When I saw the dagger in the book Sam was looking at I kept trying to recall where I had seen it before. I knew it was important. I forgot that Peter has it.
11. The Sr. Maester speaking about how things have come and gone with the threats from the North was interesting. IE, that being a Maester means you know these things have a cycle. Then he said, the wall has always stood through these. That was a HUGE foreshadowing. The wall IS coming down. The Maesters are going to be shown that they don't know as much as they think they do.
12. I thought the same thing about the dragons on the wall at Dragonstone in the map room. Where were they before? They weren't there. A LOT of that place is new but shouldn't be due to their HUGE budget. I know, I'm being picky. The throne room in particular came to mind.
13. Cersei and Jaime see that they are in a bad place, they just don't realize how bad. Jaime just stood there, silent as Euron was going after Cersei. Makes me wonder if he sees her worth fighting for any more.
14. What's up with the Lannister's money problems? I don't see how that just vanished. The Lannisters were supporting Robert and KL. They were setting up a wedding to bring in some money to the family. Without money how can they possibly raise or keep an army. It's like this storyline was dropped. It was one I liked since it is realistic.
15. I liked how they brought in many storylines from the prior 6 seasons to show the payoff for this final run!


Mike V. said...

Hi Richard - no problem on being busy! lol

1. Yeah i do remember you suggesting that. I guess that makes sense, but just hearing the way it was mentioned on the show sounded like the walker threat was not the end-all-be-all of the show. Never really looked at it that way. I've always seen a united front against the walkers and didn't think about there potentially being more conflicts to settle after that. (Though: we should note that Jim Broadbent - AKA archmaester mentioned that they've been through this before....he mentioned how the wall remained standing. So maybe something that will make things different this time is that the wall will truly fall!) But yeah..makes sense about Jon trying to take them out without Dany first. But it sounds like he'll be meeting with Dany shortly if the raven gets to him.

2. Well they did offer Arya food and drink which is that whole custom in westeros that Walden Frey broke when he killed the starks under his roof. Since Arya (as Walder) brought that guest rite up, I doubt she was going to kill them. lol But yeah I thought it was going to happen too.

3. Yeah I'm sure that's it. It's not that he's special, but it was still nuts that he did.

4. I thought we had discussed there being dragon glass at dragon stone before....but maybe we were talking about Valarya....(sp) Didn't Sam also mention that the Targs were using it in their armor not knowing what it's good for? So they could have a whole stash of weapons and armor there.

5. lol on hating those type of people. Yeah I can see that perspective I guess. But it's still ridiculous! lol Sansa's burn on Littlefinger was pretty good though. (the whole having the last word thing)

6. naaa I'm good on the list. I get your point...i think it's more of a desperation thing. They did the same in Helm's Deep in Two Towers. (some have seen too many winters...or too few lol)

Mike V. said...

7. Once Walden started talking about who they killed I knew it was Arya...before that I was trying to figure out when it was taking place....that was their goal with it being a cold open...make us think it's a flashback since they kicked off a season with one before....but then things weren't adding up and I knew it was her. I think most people caught on at different points as intended. lol

8. lol....yeah he's inevitably going to die but he might cause a ruckus before that happens!

9. If it wasn't for the prophecy it wouldn't surprise me that Petyr kills Cersei....of course he could talk Jaime into doing it too...i dunno. But just because LF is in the North right now doesn't mean that this is his final alliance. Chaos being a ladder and all.

10. I THINK Petyr has it, but does he? I looked up on the wiki of fire and ice that he does indeed have it in the book...but it changed hands a few times....Ned had it, then Petyr took it back, then I think Joff had it or something like that but eventually Petyr had it....they didn't really focus on it too much in show after we found out whose dagger it was. I'm sure he has it.

11. HA...hadn't read your comment yet but said the same thing up above in my responses. Yeah...the wall will fall. (and of course it didn't fall when Bran went through so there goes that theory lol)

12 I think the dragons were in the is Dany's birthplace and home of the Targaryans when they migrated west after all. I don't specifically recall seeing them, but I'm sure they were there...or they just weren't a focus and maybe we hadn't seen that wall in detail before.

13. Euron was publicly taunting was hilarious. But yeah...Jaime certainly is questioning his next move. Cersei's motives are very Mad King-ish at this point.

14. I thought their gold mines ran dry? (at Casterly Rock) Ohhh I're wondering how they still have an army. I don't know...but I would assume they're still cooking the books. But yeah plots like this fall by the wayside when you're into crunch time.

15. Yes many storylines brought back in except your Lannister bankruptcy storyline! LOL Seriously though, I agree too. This was a nice kickoff to the season. Looking forward to the next ep!

Mike V. said...

Meant to say earlier. With arya taking out the freys in one fell swoop that pretty much kills the lady stoneheart storyline from the books. Lol I guess I get why they couldn't fit it into their story but it definitely would've provided one more book shocker!

Anonymous said...

What will Euron's priceless object be?????

Somebody's head, perhaps, maybe gold? Funny that his armada wasn't enough.

BTW, how does someone sail in 1000 ships and Jaime not know as the head of the army. A little lame.

14 above, the Bank of Bravos is providing the money and they were concerned about the Lanisters future. With Dany landing they would certainly pull the plug. Regardless of the books they would stop lending money.


Anonymous said...

Stoneheart--yea it looks dead.

MJ, here's something on Eastwatch.

MJ said...

Jamie killing Cersei - if he does do it I hope i is something that takes his story full circle. Like - she is about to do something that will cause great harm to many and h has to kill her to protect the many - like he did for the Mad King. Guess that is the romantic in me - he will sacrifice the love of his life for the betterment of all. LOL

I know there is still debate about Sansa not telling Jon about the Vale army - and I think the show wrote that all badly. It is never clear if she knew they were coming and did not tell, or if she went and called to them after Jon would not hear/listen to her and she could not know if they would get there in time.

All I can say at this point is that she keeps trying to tell him and warn him of things and he is not listening. Not really. And that is how she feels. And if he didn't want her to question him in public then maybe he should tell her stuff before they are in public. LOL But hey - they are writing it this way for a reason. SHe's going to knowingly or unknowingly get in they way of Jon and his plans. LOL

Gotta run. I will come back and read Richard's 15 comments ! LOL And the 15 other comments.

Mike V. said...

Finally back home! Need to respond to everything above, but a couple things I wanted to bring up.

The Wall – Bran has been marked by the Night King and that deactivated magic around the weirwood tree where the 3 eyed raven was. I mentioned earlier in this thread that we can forget the theory that the wall will come down because bran went through it. I take that back. The very act of him passing through the wall may have deactivated that magic. Everything being mentioned on the show from the archmaester saying the wall is still standing to Benjen’s speech near the wall about the enchantments strengthens that theory.

Bran’s vision – there was a giant with the walkers…it’s probably a vision of the future where They have marched south of the wall (You can see grass). The giant has one eye…there’s a chance they had passed winterfell where Wun Wun’s corpse was.

Sansa – Yeah…I’m just gonna let it go. I rewatched the finale from last season and she does apologize for not telling Jon. It basically is the show covering for not having her tell him sooner and chalking it up to trust. But it seems the trust issues are going to continue.

Jaime killing Cersei – MJ, I like your ideas on how it could happen.

Sam sending a raven to Jon – Does Sam know he’s at Winterfell now and not The Wall? They made a point about how news didn’t quite make it back to the citadel about the changing of the guard at Castle Black last season. They still thought Mormont was the Lord Commander and Sam updated them that it’s Jon Snow. Granted…Edd knows where Jon is probably… It seems communication is getting around the rest of Westeros so maybe they won’t spend episodes tracking ravens to Jon. Lol

Stonemen/Grey Scale Cure – Apparently if you screenshot one of the pages Sam was reading it talks about how dragon glass has healing effects. That makes sense considering Stannis was able to cure Shireen and they lived on Dragonstone….looks like Sam may have stumbled upon a cure for Jorah.

Will write more later!

Anonymous said...

Great observations re Bran and Sam with greyscale.

I'm not sure how Bran was marked and how that would affect the wall. I get the theory/idea. If Bran can deactivate magic, then the wall is no longer that way.
BUT, if his effect is on both the wierwood tree and wall, why wouldn't it affect the WW and Jon. They are kept alive by magic.


Mike V. said...

Fair points on magic, but why were the white walkers not affected by Bran's connection to the Night King and the weirwood tree losing magical protections in the first place? There are clearly different magics at play. The wording Benjen uses to explain the Wall's protections is very similar to the wording used to explain the weirwood tree. Now...was it a one time thing with Bran and Night King? i.e. they need to connect again in a vision for the spells on the wall to break? That's potentially the case. There was no fanfare when Bran was dragged underneath the wall. Of course, that could be intentional too.

Anonymous said...

Exactly, the "exactness" of how this works is unknown--LOL. Lots of questions to me about this "magic deactivation".

1. Is the Night King still able to connect with Bran?
2. Is Bran under the NK's influence, ie a Trojan horse.
3. Why is Weirwood tree and Wall magic the same, what makes the same vs other spells.
4. Why didn't Bran's deactiviation magic work on the WW, etc?
5. Is what we've seen with the weirwood and likely with the wall really NK magic working through Bran as a kind of reverse warging?
6. Is the wall just fine and the horn the secret to bringing it down?
7. Is the wall just fine now but the NK will "warg" through Bran to destroy its' magic?
8. I know there are more but that's it for now.

It is possible that Bran could be absolutely key to things. BRRM likes to use the younger characters and bring them forth with strong power. He's the youngest I can think of as I'm writing this.

BTW, how long do you think it will be before the other Lords of the North find out that there is a real Stark? And might that cause Jon some trouble, especially with Sansa challenging him in public?


Mike V. said...

All good questions. I really haven't thought too much about it. I'm just thinking of simplicity for the sake of TV. NK touched Bran in a vision, magic broke. Same magic at wall (supposedly). Does it break again?

As for magic that brought Jon back....supposedly that's the Lord of Light (Fire) doing that work. So there could be FIRE MAGIC and ICE MAGIC at play. Dragons born out of fire. Dany unburnt by fire.

As for the Horn of Winter - not really brought up in the show. I think at the FIST of the First Men with the dragon glass, there was a horn found too. Some speculated that might be the horn of winter. But there's a chance that the WALL coming down in the show may transpire differently than the book. Of course it all could be a giant red herring and that wall never comes down. (SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT lol)

BTW....speaking of...I made comments earlier about Sansa speaking about the White Walker war happening BEFORE cersei. I actually misheard her. I was watching this morning with subtitles and she said "there's still a 'WALL' between us and the Night King" ....ahhhhh another reference to the wall. They're really hammering us over the head with that wall standing tall for thousands of years. lol

Anonymous said...

ICE vs FIRE --Of course. That's really what it's about.

When you think about Dany living through Fire and Jon being resurrected by Fire they have something in common. I used to think of JOn being ice but since he's Targaryan and raised by the Lord of Light or whatever, he's certainly not ICE magic oriented.

But, what about Bran, is he going to be KEY?


Mike V. said...

I've always said that Jon IS the song of ice and fire. He was born of a Targaryan and a Stark. I really don't know if there's a difference in fire magic vs. ice magic....but obviously GRRM does call the whole thing the song of ice and fire so there probably is something to that.

Surely, Bran will play a role in all of this as he is the 3 eyed raven and can see all of westerosi history and potential future. Surely he needs to tell Jon about who he is...but there still needs to be proof. I heard rumors suggesting that Rhaegar's HARP may be buried with Lyanna Stark to prove they were in love or something. (people won't just take Bran's word. I guess there's Howland Reed too who was with Ned) We'll see. Only 12 eps left! lol

Mike V. said...

Comic con live blog for thrones.

Mike V. said...

Comic con trailer - didn't watch but they said it reveals a returning character. My only guess is gendry lol

Mike V. said...

Never mind it was melissandre. lol I'd hardly call that a return!

Anonymous said...

Interesting that Sophie says Sansa trusts nobody. That would include Jon of course.
YOu can't blame her at all.

Yes, Jon as Ice AND Fire makes some sense. But, he was raised by the god who likes fire.


Mike V. said...

Another vague winds of winter update lol