Monday, July 31, 2017

Game of Thrones: Season 7 Episode 3 - The Queen's Justice

Hello friends and welcome back to season 7 of Game of Thrones and WOW, we got a good one this week!  Still payoff over payoff and loads of callbacks to earlier seasons.  And of course, the meeting of all meetings finally happened.  When that isn't the only thing that will dominate the discussions you know it was a jam-packed episode!  Let's dive in.

Discussion Points


Well kids? It happened!  Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen have finally met!  And as we predicted, they didn't just hit it off upon first meeting.  But, based on some of the things said in the meeting it's clear that the unveiling of additional information may help this relationship further or possibly further complicate things.  

  • Jon and Davos have arrived with a few soldiers of the North.  Tyrion and Missendi greeted them him with a few Dothraki soldiers.
  • It was great to have Jon and Tyrion talking to each other again after all of these years and all of these other characters meet.  I loved the Tyrion/Davos introduction where they discussed being on opposing sides in the Battle of Blackwater.  Of course no one mentioned the fact that Tyrion's Wildfire strategy blew up Davos' son.  I liked the comment later where Davos mentioned they almost won and Tyrion restated the "almost" part.  
  • Tensions rose as the Northmen were asked to give up their weapons, including Long Claw and they watched the Dothraki walk away with their boat.  And on the way up the long stairs one of the dragons did a flyby.  Maverick and Goose would be so proud!  And of course we're all excited because this stuff is finally happening.  I mean Jon and Davos just saw a full grown dragon in Westeros!   
  • Tyrion and Jon did some catching up or promising to catch each other up (ideally off screen) about how they both got where they were.  They both discuss Sansa and Tyrion clarifies how smart she is and how the marriage was never consummated.  
  • Melisandre and Varys had an interesting chat far away from Jon's arrival.  Varys saw right through Mel not wanting to be seen by Jon.  She's heading for Volantis saying her time whispering in the ears of Kings is done.  She brought together FIRE AND ICE (again chills).  But she also said she will return to Westeros to die and promised Varys will die in Westeros too.  Interesting.  First thing I thought of when she said she will return is when she talked to Arya about how they will meet again.  "Eyes you will close forever."  Perhaps Arya will kill Melisandre?  I forget if she was ever on the list, but the fact that she took Gendry from her probably irks her.  (We should clarify that Mel meeting Arya and taking Gendry is all a show creation.  But, we are purely on the show's agenda now)  
  • And alas we are at the big meeting. Missendi rants off all of Dany's titles and her being the rightful heir to the Iron Throne and the 7 Kingdoms.  Davos was a little delayed with his declaration of the amazing accomplishments of Jon Snow and just said, "uh this is Jon Snow. ... King of the North"  Fantastic!  
  • We got a history lesson of when the Starks served the Targaryens through a long era of Peace when Aegon Targaryen conquered the 7 kingdoms.  Dany said that Jon should be beholden to that oath.  She refused to address him as king.  She did apologize for her father, the Mad King and used the same line Jon used a couple weeks ago (as predicted) that a child shouldn't have to pay for the sins of their fathers.
  • Long story short, Jon refused to bend the knee (YEAH JON!) and told Dany about the army of the dead.  And of course, everyone thinks he sounds crazy.  Even Jon later acknowledged it sounds crazy when he said it out loud.  Tyrion does believe Jon though.  But they still have to face Cersei and nothing is going to change that resolve.    
  • Jon putting into words what we've been talking about for years was great though.  All of these games they're playing (you know, the "game of thrones") mean nothing.  The dead are coming for them all.  And they need to band together against it.  
  • Dany started ranting about all of her accomplishments and the faith people have put in her, which is when Davos started speaking about everything Jon has done and the people that believe in him.  Come on guys, you both are the heroes of this story (we think), can't you just get along!?  Davos went a bit too far for Jon's liking when he mentioned Jon took a knife to the heart and almost said that he gave his life for the cause.  And Dany remembered that later when Monday Morning Quarterbacking with Tyrion about the 1st meeting.  
  • Varys cut the meeting short with word of what happened enroute to Dorne.  Dany told Jon he is not a prisoner yet, but that if he declares himself King he is in open rebellion with Dany.  
  • So we get a battle report.  2 or 3 ships escaped from the battle.  The rest were sunk or captured. We get a quick scene with Theon being rescued by a Greyjoy ship loyal to Yara.  They saw right though Theon's lies about trying to rescue Yara.  
  • We got another scene of Tyrion and Jon on a cliff overlooking the sea.  Tyrion joked about brooding and Jon being better at it.  All good stuff!  Tyrion gives Jon advice on getting to know Dany by talking to the people she liberated.  He spoke about believing Jon about the dead and asked what he can do to help.  Jon asks about the dragon glass which Tyrion brings back to Dany.   (By the way, loved the callback to season 1 with the grumpkins and snarks comments)
  • Tyrion advises Dany to give Jon the Dragonglass and not turn their back on a potential ally.  Tyrion told Dany that he believes Jon because he actually came to Dragonstone.  Everyone advised against him coming and Tyrion would have too.  
  • Jon later came to talk to Dany who was watching her dragons.  Dany tried to reach for common ground.  They both lost 2 brothers. (of course Dany's brother just happens to be Jon's actual father!)   They both joke about Tyrion being a talker.  While they are at an impasse on who is ruling what Dany did tell Jon he can mine the dragon glass and forge weapons and she will provide resources to help.  He thanked her and asked if she believes him.  She didn't answer the question but she did a double take as he walked away.  I mean it's hard not to think of a potential pairing with these 2, but with them being related as Aunt/Nephew it's just weird!  But further with there being precedent on the show, in the books and in the Targaryen lineage, it can't be ruled out.  
  • Somewhat related, the fact that they kept bringing up that Dany is the rightful heir to the throne and the last dragon were making it clear that this will come up again when Jon finds out who he really is.  We need one additional piece of information though.  Rhaegar Targaryen and Elia Martell were married and had children (Whom the mountain killed after the sack of King's landing. Remember Oberyn Martell was her sister and he ranted about it during their trial by combat).   But, that marriage went south and we assume Rhaegar fell in love with Lyanna Stark.  He even had a tournament in her honor and named her the finest women in the land (i forget the actual title, but he passed his wife and gave the rose to her).  Then he apparently kidnapped her and Robert Baratheon started a war to get her back.   This is when Ned's brother and father were burned alive by the Mad King and when Robert killed Rhaegar on the battlefield and Ned went to the Tower of Joy to retrieve his sister, coming back with Jon Snow. The big question is, were Rhaegar and Lyanna in Love? (YES)   WERE THE MARRIED?  There are theories that Rhaegar's marriage to Ellia Martell was dissolved and he did marry Lyanna Stark.  Of course, it would've been a secret marriage, but it would make Jon Snow the true born son of Rhaegar Targaryen and the rightful heir to the iron throne.   Lyanna whispered something to Ned and said if Robert finds out he would kill Jon.  And she said PROMISE ME NED.   We can assume that Bran did hear this whisper.  And now we are seeing that Bran is proving he knows stuff by his little chat with Sansa (I know..we're not there yet!).   So Bran will probably be the key to giving Jon this info dump.  But, will everyone else believe it without proof?  And what will happen when Dany finds out?  Will she just give up her quest for the throne?  Will it make their bond stronger or will it drive them apart?  And will it even matter with the army of the dead coming?  So many questions, so few episodes left! 

King's Landing

Euron marched into King's Landing to cheers from the mob.  This mob will cheer for anything won't they?  Jaime kind of made that point, so no need to get into it!  Let's cut right to the chase.

  • Euron brought Cersei her gift.  The killer of Myrcella Baratheon (ahem...Lannister!).  Cersei pledged an alliance with Euron and the Greyjoy fleet.  It also sounds like she promised marriage to Euron to Jaime's surprise.  Granted, Cersei probably would turn on Euron before that ever happened.  
  • Euron's questions to Jaime about bedroom strategies were hilarious.  But they're so vulgar I dare not type them on this family blog of mine! 
  • Euron left the capital bringing Yara with him.  
  • And then we get Cersei's great revenge scene.  I will say that I called this last week. I'm not saying I'm a genius or anything because I never would've predicted the exact manner in which Cersei decided to get her revenge.  You can do a searching the comments of last week's recap though where I said the following: "I can see Cersei killing Tyene and keeping Ellaria alive for torture."
  • And that's exactly what she did.  But, it was brutal.  She had Qyburn develop the same poison that Ellaria used to kill Myrcella and then kissed Tyene ensuring her death.  Then Cersei drank the antidote and explained how Ellaria will watch her daughter die and then rot away as she spends the rest of her days in the cell.  They will force her to eat and stay awake to not miss a moment.  I mean, I don't even know how someone conjures this up in the writers' room.  It's brutal!  But RIP Sandsnakes and I guess the entire Dorne storyline.  The actress who plays Ellaria confirmed that she will not be returning to the show. 
  • Cersei, feeling alive with power, immediately goes to Jaime and has her way with him and then openly flaunts it the next morning when there's a knock at the door.  She once again ranted off, "I am the Queen of the 7 kingdoms" implying she can do what she wants. If only she'd remember her father's advice to Joffrey.  "Anyone that has to keep repeating that they are the King is no king"  (paraphrased)  
  • One reader of this blog will be happy about the show pulling back in the Iron Bank of Braavos into the fold.  I'm kind of pleased they didn't drop the story either.  They're really doing a nice job with callbacks to previous season plots.  (There's hope for Gendry people!)   Anyway, somehow Cersei may have convinced the Braavos Bank dude to switch his investment to Cersei instead of Dany and her 3 dragons.  He credited her with being as savvy as her father.  Oh man, you have no idea who you're dealing with!  She ensured the debts will be paid.  We'll see!  


  • We join Sansa with Winterfell's new maester, Littlefinger and Lord Royce making plans for the winter.  There isn't enough food to last the winter and Sansa knew just how to handle it.  She's also making sure the armor is lined with leather for warmth.  Leadership suits her as Littlefinger suggested.  But, he also warned her not to turn her back on Cersei.  Ummm, didn't Sansa say the same thing to Jon 2 episodes ago?  Littlefinger's advice was creepy as ever, but kind of right.  You have to fight every battle everywhere.  Fight them in your mind, be ready for any situation.  Think through every possible series of events so that everything that happens is something you've seen before.  Dude is all about the chaos.  I'm still confused what his play is here.  Does he truly have affection for Sansa and isn't still desiring EVERYTHING?  What is his next move? 
  • We don't have time to dwell on it too long because someone finally got to Winterfell.  Another tear filled Stark reunion folks!  BRAN has arrived!  Of course, he's all wise and distant now as the 3 eyed Raven.  Talk about creepy.  But Sansa jumping on him to hug him was a very emotionally satisfying moment.   They went out to the godswood and Bran was hanging out at the weirwood tree.  The whole drama around who is the true lord of Winterfell was clarified by Bran saying essentially, "nope. Not me!  I'm out!" He can't be as he's the 3 eyed raven now.  He goes on to say he needs to talk to Jon and he knows everything that has happened in all of time, but still has to learn how to piece together the fragments.  He needs to be ready for the long night.  He told Sansa that he was sorry what happened to her in Winterfell on her wedding night, implying he knows about what Ramsey did to her.  She, of course, was creeped out but essentially this is a way for the show to prove to other characters that he's speaking the truth.  I just feel like something like Jon's lineage will need more physical evidence.  Not sure how that would be provided though.  Of course, we all had to be thinking, "ok, now tell Sansa what you know about Jon and send a damn raven to Dragonstone!"  Wouldn't be as big of an emotional payoff for Jon to find out that way, but come on!  Share knowledge people!

Oldtown - Citadel
  • Good news!  Jorah is cured from greyscale!  I loved how Jorah played dumb and just said he started feeling better and attributed it to the climate.  Archmaester Ebrose wasn't stupid, but playing off that Sam had any part in the cure was hilarious.  
  • Jorah told Sam that he will return do Daenerys Targaryen who convinced her to find a cure.  He said that he owes her his life as well as Sam.  Perhaps Sam's name will come up in conversation with Dany and will help Jon's cause.  But that would require people to talk about people they've met and SHARE KNOWLEDGE!  They did foreshadow that their paths will cross again.  But Sam extending his hand for a handshake with the former greyscale patient was very touching.  
  • Ebrose met with Sam later and while he was scolding Sam he also commended him for a job well done.  Definitely felt like something out of Harry Potter.  You were irresponsible, you could've killed everyone, but you didn't. 100 points to Gryffindor!  That said, Sam did not get a reward.  I certainly suspected this might upgrade his stature at the citadel.  Nope, he has to rewrite a bunch of old books.  More menial tasks for Sam.  At least he didn't get anything too disgusting to do this week! 
Strategic Movements in the battle for the Iron Throne

  • Tyrion and Dany were going over a revised strategy.  Losing their fleet was a big loss.  Dany wants to fly her dragon and burn the Iron Fleet.  They all determined it was too risky.  Instead they focused their efforts on Casterly Rock.  
  • Tyrion walked us through a "what if" scenario (and the show showed us the scenario play out to failure) on breaching the walls of THE ROCK.  Tyrion referred back to Bronn's 10 good men impregnation speech from season 1 at The Vale to reveal his true strategy.  Due to Tyrion's stature, he was tasked with building the sewer system to Casterly Rock and he built himself a little secret entrance for his "love shack".  (Of course he did!)  The Unsullied essentially trojan horsed Casterly Rock and took it over quite easily.  But little did we know that Cersei and Jaime already had an alternate plan.  Euron's lightning fast fleet was able to make it all the way over to Casterly Rock and burn the unsullied ships at sea.  Grey Worm was wondering where the rest of the Lannister Army was.  
  • We soon found out.  Jaime Lannister took a page out of Robb Stark's book (Whispering Woods where they captured Jaime in season 1) and left a skeleton crew to die at Casterly Rock while Jaime took the majority of his forces to Highgarden to easily take out the Tyrell army.   It was an impressive game twister, but the real meat of this scenario was the final scene between Jaime Lannister and Lady Olenna Tyrell.     
  • I do want to make a quick side note and point out how awkward it was to see Bronn marching with Jaime while Tyrion was giving him a shout out from the opposing side of war.  Things are getting messy! 
  • Olenna may have given some foreshadowing criticizing Tywin Lannister for not seizing Highgarden when the gold mines ran dry.  Perhaps this will be Cersei's play to the Iron Bank to repay their debts.  
  • We also learned that Jaime Lannister is carrying Joffrey's sword Widow's Wail which is half of the sword that was forged from Ned Stark's sword ICE.  Now we know where another Valayrian steel sword is.  I wonder if this foreshadows where Jaime's arc may eventually run.  
  • Olenna wasn't pulling any punches in her final moments.  She even called Joffrey a C U Next Tuesday.  (You didn't think I was actually going to write the word unfiltered did you?) 
  • Olenna gave Jaime enough warning about how Cersei will get him in the end.  She acknowledges that he truly does love her, but Cersei is a monster.  Jaime can't realize it now, but at some point surely these words will pay off.  "she's a disease and I regret my role in spreading it.  You will too."  Ouch. 
  • Jaime spoke of how Cersei wanted Olenna to be killed and it was pretty brutal.  But Jaime went with a mild poison that wouldn't hurt.  Without hesitation she chugged that poisoned goblet of wine.  And then she left Jaime with some parting words.  She painfully drudged up the way Joffrey was poisoned with the foaming at the mouth and face turning purple.  And then she confessed, like a boss, to killing him.  She had one final request that he tell Cersei she wanted to know it was her that did it.  I'm stealing this line from the show runners, but she basically beat Jaime in her own death scene.  It was fantastic!  If you gotta go out, Lady Olenna did it right!  RIP Queen of Thorns and kudos to Diana Rigg to bringing this great character to life!   

That about does it for this week.  Of course, this is only the beginning of our discussion.  Let's get t the comments! Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and I'll see you next week!


Mike V. said...

I could've edited the recap, but I forgot to add the impacts of all of these chess board movements. Essentially Dany has lost the Tyrell and Dornish support. The Unsullied are trapped at Casterly Rock until the Lannisters return. They definitely are eliminating Dany's options one by one. At some point she's going to have to use her Dragons to level the playing field. But, things certainly aren't as lopsided as it first appeared.

I also liked Jon's first assessment of Dany and the fact that she hasn't used her dragons yet. "You're not as bad as Cersei" lol fantastic.

MJ said...

Damn ! Nice long recap. I shall go read it now.

Ellaria in the dungeon watching her daughter die - so Dornish help is done.

Lady Olenna dying of poison at High Garden - after telling Jamie she poisoned Joffrey - freeing Jamie to not want to kill Tyrion when he shows up with Dany. And possibly setting up how he (Jamie) might turn his back on his sister if she is going to kill Tyrion.

The Unsullied are stuck on Casterly Rock. Well played - as Cersei never liked their home there.

Dany is left with the Dothraki and her dragons. And we know Cersei will magically have had hundreds of thousands of those crossbows made in no time at all. LOL

Of course all these losses will also force Dany to align with the north.

Bran - Ewwww! Poor form to bring up your sisters nightmare of a wedding night ! LOL

Euron is annoying me. I know they wanted him to be hotter and more swashbuckling this season but he irks me. LOL

Anonymous said...

Thanks again. And good call on the Ellaria torture.

I'll take HUGE props for calling the Dornish And Yara forces-- gonzo. I'll also take props for questioning ANY advantage to be gained by the unsullied takig Casterley Rock--no gold, so what. Again, a Tyrion and Dany failure. I didn't figure on the Greyjoy's taking out the last of Dany's ships though. Dany has the remains of the unsullied and dothraki now to attack KL. The unsullied will have to travel to KL accross land but so does Jaime. BTW, isn't it crazy how quickly Jaime got to Highgarden, lol. I can't imagine Dany won't use her dragons now--she's lost 3/5 of her forces. Dany is loosing and Cersei is winning. Reminds me of a Rocky movie just waiting for the comeback.

The minute Cersei said she would have the bank of Bravos's gold in a fortnight I was going--Tyrell's/Highgarden. REcall last week that I figured the Tully's(I hope I got the right T family this time) would the Lannisters go for the Tyrell's. IN the back of my mind I've been seeing this gold come into play and it did.

I think a HUGE miss by everyone I've read re this episode is what Jamie said when his sister started taking his clothes off--"NO". That's right, he didn't want her advances. It was a rape scene of sorts and started off very awkward at the least. It was 100% a call back to an earlier ep(you know the one) and to show how much things have changed. It also addresses my comments about how strange it is that he could have feelings for her when they are not being intimate. At this point, I would say he's feeling his lover's love. But, to me she was doing that to keep Jaime on her side. IE, that after the Euron stuff AND no intimacy, Cersei could see Jaime drifting. That love making by Cersei tied directly to Olena's speech on Cersei using him. I can't imagine he's totally naive to the concept either.

Jaime with Widows Wail is a huge foreshadowing of him being in the BIG battle. I think he'll outlive Cersei.

Bran at WF addressed what I've been concerned about re Jon and being King of the North while Bran is the true heir. I loved how he couldn't explain what a 3 eyed raven is. Yes, he will tell Jon that he is a Targaryan.

Bron with Jaime was great. I could see Tyrion with them several eps from now as they ride to battle the WW.

When Sam was told to do the rewrite it reminded me of the Karate Kid and "wax on/wax off". IE, that rewriting some of the very OLDEST material could give him insight into things otherwise forgotton. INfo needed re the WW and wall.

Jon and Dany meeting, yes Fire and Ice. Finally here. Of course Jon is both fire and ice. I saw this and kept telling myself Jon's character really needs a MUCH stronger actor. This guy always has weepy eyes for example. Will comment more later.

Don't forget that Peter now commands what is probably one of the largest armies and it's home base is between Winterfell and Dragonstone. I think he's waiting to see who's got the upper hand and IF that upper hand is good enough to join or weak enough to take down. It's always easier to take on an army that's been put through a fight while yours' are fresh.

I would say the Cersei/Euron marriage is not going to happen given the victory condition. BUT, imagine if Cersei were victorious, at least for a while over Dany. Wouldn't that be a GOT shocker. I've been wondering about that possibility given the speed of battles and how Dany keeps loosing. Just how far does "rocky" have to be beat down before the come back?


Mike V. said...

I try to be brief in my recaps, but with Thrones I just can't help it!

Yep it sure seems like it'll be dragons vs. Cersei and an eventual alliance with Jon. I think her defeat will all stem from a change of heart by Jaime. Olenna's speech to him definitely shouldn't be dismissed. Depending how much she strings along euron might be motivation too. But he might start to realize that the death of their children were all her fault.

Yeah Bran...there were so many other things you could've brought up to prove you know things! lol was probably a reminder for plot reasons too. Afterall, it was Littlefinger that put her in that situation in the first place. We'll see.

Euron- yeah...I think he's meant to be irksome. I think it's kind of hilarious, and the man knows his time is probably short on the show so he's going to chew the scenery!

I really do wonder what inciting event will have people are finally listening to Jon. Maybe something like the wall collapsing might wake people up. But everything that happened in this episode makes sense. both Jon and Dany have been on separate quests and you can't expect either of them to change after one meeting. Loved that Jon refused to kneel. Loved how information of both of their series long journeys was divulged. They both have pretty impressive resumes. I like that they aren't rushing it. Other characters took seasons to form bonds. This should be no different.

Mike V. said...

My last comment was a response to MJ!

This one is to Richard. Thanks for the props. I really wasn’t trying to pat myself on the back and ask for congrats. Lol (well, maybe a little!)

Technically the Dornish forces are still in Dorne. There’s just no one to pick them up anymore. Lol Logistically, Dragonstone is just on the other side of Blackwater Bay….they ran right into Euron on their way South to Dorne to pick up the forces. But I think you’re right that essentially that army is no longer in play. There are 3 Iron Fleet ships left with Theon…so I’m sure they’ll still play a role. But yeah essentially it’s gone . Unsullied are in a bad spot. Yes…they definitely are past the point of worrying how long it takes to get to each location and are just intentionally skipping time. We can assume months are going by for all this travel. Exactly…classic movie setup (and I always love a rocky reference lol)….They have to make it look like Dany stands a chance to lose. And things are looking dire right now.

Not the Tullys…TARLYS! Lol Almost told you you were right…but it’s Sam’s father. I knew you’d love that the Braavos thing came back into play. It impressed me that they remembered to go back to it. This is very breaking bad like with their tying up of loose ends.

I actually noticed the “NO” that Jaime said…forgot to mention it in the recap. They were definitely mirroring the “rape” scene from the other season. Yes…definitely…everything happening should be building up doubt in Jaime’s mind. And eventually it will come to a head.

I agree on the Widow’s Wail. He has a bigger role to play.

Bran will tell him the Targaren lineage surely, but will that be proof enough to the kingdoms? And how will Jon react to the news? Maybe he’ll be thrilled he’s not a bastard, but he also has said he doesn’t want to be king. He’s doing it because the people want him to be.

Yeah…I think it’ll only be temporary that Tyrion and Bronn are on opposing sides.

I was thinking that with the old books too. Yeah, maybe Ebrose is being hard on him into the man he needs to be. Or maybe it’s completely unintentional and Sam will stumble upon it anyway.

Eh…I think Kit Harrington has come a long way since the beginning and I’m totally buying his performance. All the child actors have really developed some chops. Kit was a little older when the show started (than the other kids) but he has come a long way.

Interesting take on Littlefinger. That is true that the Army of the Vale could help against cersei too. But it technically should take them a long time to get to King’s Landing, especially with the weather. And Jon wants those forces up North.

I really don’t know about Cersei…I mean…I guess if you wanted to go with your theory that Cersei will live till next season we could see what Littlefinger said come to fruition. We’re fighting all battles at once. The battle for the throne is happening at the same time as the battle for humanity. That’s not too big of a stretch. But I don’t know where the forces would come from to fight both battles.

Mike V. said...

The Mel/Varys discussion. I was on Reddit and responded to someone and thought I'd post it here because I think it's relevant. (in brackets below)

[All I could think about was Mel's conversation with Arya where she told her she will shut eyes forever and then said, "we will meet again." Don't know if that foreshadowed that Arya will kill Melisandre and she knows it, but I think that's is probably related to how she knows she will return to Westeros.

As for Varys, this isn't the first time a Red Priestess gave him some. There was Kinvara that said the following:

""Everyone is what they are and where they are for a reason. Terrible things happen for a reason. Take what happened to you, Lord Varys, when you were a child. If not for your mutilation at the hand of a second-rate sorcerer, you wouldn't be here helping the Lord's Chosen bring his light into the world. Knowledge has made you powerful. But there's still so much you don't know. Do you remember what you heard that night when the sorcerer tossed your parts in the fire? You heard a voice call out from the flames. Do you remember? Should I tell you what the voice said? Should I tell you the name of the one who spoke?" "

These Red Priest/Priestesses have Varys' number. With the way this show is tying up loose ends and the way Mel talked to Varys, I would guess this sorcerer plot isn't finished yet. ]

Mike V. said...

edit: gave him some "interesting and creepy news" (whoops! lol)

Anonymous said...

Yea, Cersei on Jaime was almost a classic case of sex assault by boss, lol.

I was good with the Dany/Jon meeting. Exactly, it takes time for feelings to develop even IF they do. But, normally there is a little spark or something when you first meet someone you develop a relationship with. That spark was absent. Could be lots of reasons such as their minds being totally on their hopeful conquests. But still, no spark is no spark and there was none I could see even when they were alone.

I am in the camp of Jon being a Targaryan equivelant of a Snow. Her having a baby by Rhaegar would be enough for him to want to kill the bastard. I mean, look how much effort he put into killing his bastards. And that's ok. Because when the chips are down and life itself is threatened he will rise to become the great leader we believe him to be. (ok, I gagged saying that, lol--but I think it's basically a part of the storyline to come).

There are 10 eps left. And it occurred to me last night when I saw how quicly they are moving now that they could cover a LOT of material in those eps. Which is one reason I am considering a near term Cersei victory over Dany. She already has several. Cersei has only grown in power since Dany's attempted take over. I could EASILY see a Dany vs Cersei battle at KL fight where one of the dragons is killed and Dany licking her wounds. Then Dany MIGHT possibly reach out to Peter.

I am still embracing my 2 seperate battles theory with Jon and Dany before they fight together.


Anonymous said...

Dany and Peter--let that sink in a minute before you dismiss it. Huge implications for Sansa and the Starks. It would also drive the Dany/Jon shippers NUTS!

It would be justice too for him after saving Jon and Sansa's home. Right now, he's persona non grata which has really bothered me. He's been mistreated really. Now imagine if Dany wants him to go South while Jon and Sansa want him to go North? All of a sudden he's in a powerful position whereas before he was practically despised. At the rate they are going that material could be covered.

I've been trying to consider why Mel is going to Volantis only to come back. Everybody dies, so Varys dying is not a shocker. It's the implication that it might be soon and unpleasant. So, I'm not sure of the enemies he has outside of the Lannisters and their allies. His fate is not high on my priorities really. But, Mel coming going and coming is intriguing since it has lord of light implications re the WW war. PERHAPS,maybe-- he will be the one to cause a reach out to Peter and that will get Arya going against him?


Anonymous said...

Oh yea, Randall Tarly was with Jaime. So, success for the Lanisters.

BTW, why aren't we getting reports of the dragons killing various people's sheep, cows etc. Or even children being their food? ARe they on a GoT induced diet to avoid their bad side,lol?


Anonymous said...

LOL, after I read what I wrote I need to clarify that I'm not saying Dany and Peter will be a serious romance.


Mike V. said...

Read all your comments Richard. I'll respond later. Have a couple meetings. All good stuff!

MJ said...

12 comments already ? Jeez

Loved Tyrion stating to Jon that Sansa is smarter then she lets on - and jon goes 'oh she's beginning to let on' or something close to that. LOL Yeah - the intros were fun.

I hope they don't drag out Jon finding out he is part Targaryen ! It would actually be useful to get Dany and Jon on the same team really. Had not considered that Rhaegar and Lyann secretly married though. if Jon moves above Dany in the lineage then no - this would tear them further apart and not bring them together.

And not for nothing - they just wiped out 2 to 3 seasons that we endured in Slavers Bay towns. SIGH. Just saying.

"They both lost 2 brothers. (of course Dany's brother just happens to be Jon's actual father!)' - add to that - her other brother sold her to the Dothraki and then was killed by her husband. LOL The only way they have a relationship is if Jon does not know at the beginning of it that she is his aunt. It's not the way of the North to marry relatives like it might be or Targaryens in my opinion.

A bunch of us where I work debated if she would use the poison kiss to end the sand snake. Like you we knew Ellaria would watch her kid die - but we debated the delivery of the death.

Why do you keep saying thinks like 'there is hope for Gendry ' ? He will be back this year. Did you not know that ? The actor was spotted in Belfast airport ages ago.

Littlefinger - he is following his own advice. He has hitched his wagon to the Lords of he North. Probably hopes to marry Sansa. But he will make sure if Cersei wins he will be available to her as well in some way.

Sam - him re-writing old books is a total setup to him finding stuff that will help Jon. Otherwise why have it in the show ?

Mike V. said...

Still in a meeting so there’s lots to respond to but have to bring up Gendry lol

Gendry is my new OUTRIGGER mystery or Anna is Sarah in LOST (I actually forget what my crazy theory was lol). But it’s just my go to joke. (also a go to thrones fan joke that Gendry is still rowing) Anyway, I figured he’d be back but I was not reading the reports that he was spotted on Belfast. Lol

MJ said...

14 comments ! You guys are killing me LOL

Jeez - I have it backwards. LOL Unsullied aren't trapped in Casterly Rock but Dany is trapped as Dragonstone is an island and she has like 3 ships left.

Weepy eyes ? LOl You are a trip richard.

Ug - didn't get to finish reading all.

But - interesting theory ? Bran has that mark left by the Night King from his vision quest and Bran went thru the wall. Can that mark left on him now allow the white walkers thru ?

Anonymous said...

Dany has dragons and so she can fly. Jon has a ship, maybe that's why they took it??

I'm sure she has a few but your point MJ is spot on. You can't haul a horde of the dothraki in a couple of ships!

MJ, that's what many believe. That since Bran went through the wall, it has lost its' magic to stop the WW. I'm personally not so sure. I think a battle will occur at Eastwatch and at least some will go around it there.


Anonymous said...

BTW, I will only like what Cersei did to Tyene/Ellaria if we get to find out how horrible Ellaria's death would be. I'm so cynical it keeps bugging me that an alive Ellaria may yet get the better of Cersei.

Gendry could have rowed to Bravos, Volantis and back by now, lol. Maybe he will have become a sailor and have ships for Dany?


Mike V. said...

Okay guys. Sorry about delay. Finally can respond. Really I was just trying to reduce the number of comments that MJ needed to catch up on! Lol I may be all over the place but am just going to respond in order here.


Yeah I still don’t know how I feel about Jon/Dany relationship going to the “next” level. I agree with MJ, the spark would have to be there before Jon knows about his lineage. But, I do see them forming a friendship and an alliance once they realize they have fairly similar outlooks.

Yeah, I’ve seen that argument made for Jon. That if he won the people over as a bastard in the north he could do it for the 7 kingdoms too. I think it’s a more significant thing if we find out he’s NOT a bastard. It’s classic hero’s journey. Luke Skywalker, Harry Potte and many that preceded them and followed them…they were very important people raised as complete nobodies and then plucked from obscurity to go on a crazy adventure to save the world. Jon’s true identity was kept secret so that he wouldn’t be killed. And he definitely has an important destiny. I agree…it certainly would be enough for him to be a bastard and Robert still want him dead, but I just feel there’s more meat to the story if he’s a true Targ. Nice gagging though! I see your point and it certainly could still be legit.

It’s possible that a dragon may die in battle and Dany retreats and then decides to refocus her efforts to help Jon. I can see Cersei winning the first battle. They definitely are moving things quickly so a lot can happen still. (Just realized you said the same thing that I wrote about the dragons and Dany licking her wounds. But you mentioned Petyr and I went the Jon route.) I don’t see any motivation for Dany to reach out to Littlefinger unless he initiates something. I’m reading further and see your further points about him. Yeah he is getting no thanks for his role, but I think that’s due to the role he played in Ned Stark’s capture and death. I do see your point with him being in charge of the Vale. But I think Royce’s men are loyal to him and they are with House Stark. (I think) Not sure if they would go against LF or not.

The 2 separate battles theory is definitely a potential. But even with the fast paced season…do we see Jon still going to Eastwatch by season’s end?

Yeah I’m confused about the Volantis thing too. There was a red priestess there when Tyrion and Jorah were there. Yes I know the Varys dying thing implied it was soon. There are theories that Varys is a mole in the Dany camp. The fact that she made him swear allegiance could be foreshadowing that. Then again, in the books his story took a different route due to extra players on the board…and they had to explain his decision making up to this point to clarify how he’s with Dany through and through. Yes the Mel thing will be interesting to keep tabs on.

Funny with the Dragon reports. Well…they’re isolated on Dragonstone right now. I think they’re older now and more mature. Out of the teenage rebellious phase. Also Dragonstone was designed for them to be comfortable residing there on top of the castle. (at least I read that or heard that) As for the food? No idea where that’s coming from. Lol

Mike V. said...

Yes…I loved the Tyrion/Sansa lines as well.

Yeah with everything else they’re not dragging out I wonder how long they’ll drag the Targaryen thing. I think if Jon has no interest in the Iron Throne the fact that they’re relatives might help them see past their differences and work towards a mutually beneficial goal. Plus, what about all that talk that Dany was going to break the wheel? Her trying to reinstate what Aegon Targaryen put in place is not revolutionary thinking. I think her mindset may change a bit as things are unveiled. But we’ll see.

How did they wipe out 2 to 3 seasons of Slavers Bay? Did they dismiss it? Tyrion and Missendi went pretty far to explain how much she accomplished there and WHY she didn’t come over here right away. I may be misunderstanding the comment.

Yep Dany’s last surviving brother was a real treat! Good ol’ Viserys. Lol

Yeah the poison kiss was a good call. It wasn’t too tough to figure out who would die in Cersei’s revenge, but how she went about it….i just don’t know how someone comes up with that awful scenario! Lol

LF – yeah I know he is.

Sam – Agreed.

Unsullied are kinda trapped at Casterly Rock. Euron came and destroyed their fleet. As Richard mentioned they’ll have to flee on land before the Lannister soldiers arrive. Dany being trapped too. That’s a good point. Maybe they left a few ships there. Plus they have Jon’s boat! LOL

Wall theory with Bran – It’s the million dollar question. I actually brought it up in the episode 1 discussion a couple weeks ago. It really depends on how long his mark lasts. But there was a reason that Benjen talked about the magical spells on the wall similar to the magical spells on the weirwood tree where the 3 eyed raven was. It was such an underplayed moment when Bran went through the wall too, but that doesn’t mean something didn’t happen. That wall totally is coming down. It’s just a question of how and when!

@Richard again

See? Here we go with me repeating things you already discussed! Lol …yep Jon’s boat. They took his boat before they knew about the iron fleet. It was a fairly small boat. I don’t think they took a big ship to Dragonstone from White Harbor. Maybe they did. I don’t really know the logistics!

Yeah I don’t know how the Dothraki will get off the island. Lol Unless Davos calls up Sallador Saan (sp).

If they go around Eastwatch (WW) they will have to cross the sea there. Unless you subscribe to the sea being frozen. We saw that they could not enter the water at Hardhome. Maybe some will get through at East Watch…but I still think it would be an amazing spectacle to see that wall come down and it’s already been hinted at multiple times.

I mentioned in the recap, not sure if you saw, but the actress who plays Ellaria is done on the show so I don’t know if they’ll revisit her story.

Funny with Gendry bringing Dany ships…I doubt that one! Lol

Anonymous said...

I agree, the wall will come down with some WW coming through. It's just a possibility that the WW could also go around at Eastwatch. I"m not sure Jon will be at first WW battle and get defeated. But there would be some symmetry and need required if both Jon and Dany were initially defeated. Plus it's Rocky like, lol.

Yes, Jon being a legit T would be a great story.

I think it would be best if he was a true T and they got romantically involved as their ancestors.


Anonymous said...

Further speculation. It would be interesting if Cersei won and later refused to help with the WW threat. Causing Jaime at Tyrion's urging to get rid of Cersei.


Anonymous said...

Yea, as I said last week, the Dornish are done. I would just like to know she's done for-- as the old adage you say Mike. If you don't see them die then they aren't dead, lol.


Mike V. said...

Definitely agree normally that if you don't see it they're not dead. It's just that it was confirmed by the actress herself. Even benioff and Weiss said they have every scene for the remainder of the show mapped out. Lol but I guess never say never.

I like the idea of cersei winning and then not helping with the threat. That sounds plausible. And good points on the losing. As we stated before things have to look dire and unwinnable before they triumph. It's rocky and every hero's journey story. And it's been the long running theme of the song of ice and fire. Things have just gotten progressively worse for the people we consider the heroes. for the show things have started to take a positive turn but there still needs to be setbacks.

MJ said...

Slavers Bay - nope - you did not misunderstand my comment. I mean - we spent some long hours (some dull hours) watching her freeing slaves and some of them becoming her army. Fine. But once she got the Unsullied - the rest was a waste of our time since they are not part of the story now. All she has is Dothraki and Unsullied - so the rest was just killing time.

As for Day and Jon working together - if she loses more of her soldiers she has almost nothing to offer in terms of helping the North. Besides the dragons I mean. Yes - the dragons will be very helpful Dany herself does not fight. She does not strategize. So if not for an army - what does she bring to the table ? Just saying.

Anonymous said...

MJ, exactly my points re Dany vs Cersei. Dany has effectively lost 4 armies given the unsullied are unprovisioned and have a long walk while the dothraki are island bound, etc. I'm sure she could get some men to war but how many and in what condition is the question.

And I don't know why Tyrion is still the hand given his advise has resulted in some very bad loses.

Also, it's part of the reason I think Peter could possibly get involved. Just a thought anyway.

And a very good point on the slaves. I think the slaves are in Esos enjoying their freedom.


Mike V. said...

Slavers Bay - It was killing time, but it was her getting experience ruling, being queen before she came over here. It definitely was GRRM killing time in the books too because he needed time for the dragons to grow and to play out Westerosi conflicts that had started. He originally planned a 5 year time jump after Tyrion killed Tywin, but figured people would want to see what happened next. But she did liberate 3 cities and left them in a position to stay liberated. And Tyrion did refer back to it when talking to Jon. A lot of slaves from those cities became part of her Khalasaar (sp) as well I believe. I'm not sure who of those, besides the unsullied came across the sea to Westeros though.

Also, the Astapor guy that sold the unsullied told her that the unsullied need to be bloodied soon and they needed experience before they were set off to this great war.

But I get your point, and lots of people have made it including GRRM himself. lol (in so many words)

Dany/Jon - I don't think she'll lose (or lost) her entire army. She still has the dothraki and the unsullied aren't dead yet. lol She's lost her westerosi alliances. The dragons are a key part that she brings. And I think it's more of the prophecy that these 2 are destined to do something great. As for practicality, no she's in a tough spot!

Anonymous said...

LOL, maybe Gendry will bring the slaves to the fight with his navy.


Mike V. said...

Well, aren’t we all just saying exactly what they want us to be saying right now? It seemed on paper that dany would come here and dominate, but Cersei has proven she is legitimate threat. And now we’re left wondering, “how on earth can Dany win this?” Like you said, Richard, it’s Rocky. But then you add on the multiple threats and which one will be dealt first with the army of the dead….and we’re left wondering the order and the path to the alliances.

And yes…this was Tyrion’s plan, not Dany’s. She’s been all, “just let me use my damn dragons!” Tyrion actually had some sound plans…he just underestimated his sister (and his brother for lessons learned from his prior losses).

You’re probably not wrong that Littlefinger will be getting involved. He’s marginalized for too many episodes. (in reality it’s only been like 4 but in Game of Thrones that’s a lot! Lol)

I think you’re right about the slaves. Hilarious on Gendry. If I had to guess, Gendry probably followed Davos’ instructions and is laying low in King’s Landing (Flea Bottom). But, that doesn’t get him to a reunion with Arya any time soon. (unless she didn’t go North after her encounter with Nymeria)

Anonymous said...

Mike, that's right. The Mereneessy knot. We are seeing some of it's output,lol


Anonymous said...

Mike, I'm absolutely positive that most people watching this show have NO, NONE, NADA idea about the dothraki being island bound and how difficult things will be for the unsullied. IE, MOST viewers have no clue how bad it is for Dany. Most don't even know the map. I think D&D have given enough info for those who really know the story to have a different viewing experince really. I know when I talk to the friends I have who watch that usually they are confused when I start talking about some details. Like the Bank of Bravos or Highgarden having the gold. Even Jon being a Targaryan--I know very few who know this.

Most of them view Dany as having armies and dragons and are waiting for her to go kick A. That she's been fighting nice and it hasn't gone well yet.

BTW, I should have said she's effectively lost 5 armies.


MJ said...

I wonder - will next season actually end with someone definitively on the throne ? I mean - he has another whole book to come. Will he really cheat his loyal readers and let the show say how it all ends ? Thinking not. The show might end with groups of people who banded together and defeated the threat from the North of the wall with many lives lost in the battles - but I wonder if the actual Game of Thrones will still be an open thread. that would kinda suck ! LOL

Mike V. said...

meetings again.

I think at this point the show and books are on different paths. So many characters still alive in the books that might go on different trajectories. I don't even know if Cersei will be Queen of the 7 kingdoms in the books. I know GRRM told them key things he's envisioning, but at some point they had to come up with their own game plan and incorporate SOME stuff from unpublished books. I think the show will have a definitive end but it might not match the books exactly. lol

will respond to Richard later! :)

Mike V. said...

Richard, I think you're right no one is thinking about the Dothraki being land-locked on that island. I still think Dany didn't send ALL of the ships. Between the Greyjoy, Martell and Tyrell fleet maybe they were able to spare a few ships to leave at Dragonstone...afterall they did transport the dothraki there and didn't transport them anywhere else.

@MJ - Another thought. I originally thought the show wouldn't reveal Jon's true lineage since it hasn't happened in the books yet, but they did it anyway. That Hodor thing and Shireen thing were big reveals too that haven't happened. GRRM really doesn't have a say since he sold the rights. But he does have the right to CHANGE his story. He's already brought up that he's thought of a new twist that the show can't do. (i.e. a new way to sell books after the show is done lol)

MJ said...

Oh no ! His twist is that this is all a dream by Bran and none of this happened. Or this has all taken place inside a snowglobe owned by a very rich and lonely girl named Cersei. And then he will take 10 years to write 5 more books that totally change everything ! ROFLMAO. Just kidding. Couldn't resist. Feeling evil today ;-D

Mike V. said...

You laugh, but you won't be when that's the truth! :-)

Anonymous said...

The dothraki being landlocked I actually picked up from Ex Navy--MJ!

I have read where the few major players and plots will end the same.

I don't know for sure but would think there is a contract covering it.

For your consideration: There are 100s of characters and almost 100 plotlines. So, if we get 2 to 4 characters and a couple of major plot lines to finish the same as it relates to the song of fire and ice, then I will be happy.

A book doesn't have to be as 'Rocky" like as a TV show. I boxed some in college. One of my teammates was #1 heavyweight. So, I learned from him about boxing. The Rocky stuff isn't as realistic as you might think, lol.


Mike V. said...

Yeah I had read that too about players/plots. I heard that the destination is the same, but the way they get there will be different. But with GRRM not even working on book 7 yet (and who knows how much he's shared of 6) I just imagine some changes can occur.

Makes sense with your 2 to 4 characters. lol The big question is if one of those characters will be on the throne. then again, I've always wondered if the Iron Throne will even be a thing after the long night. Not sure what the world looks like after that.

I never expected realism out of ROCKY! lol though I did hear the boxing filmed for Rocky Balboa (i.e Rocky 6) was some of the most realistic boxing they did in those films.

Anonymous said...

Agree on Balboa.

Cuts in boxing are not normally as bad as they make them appear on TV. A white guy in particular has skin that cuts easier and it's seen more easily. Body blows are worse then they appear on TV. My teammate had a head on a swivel spring. Even if you hit it the hit would just glance. He was never knocked out. He was rated #1 when we boycotted the olympics. He was so devestating that his last couple of fights had no shows.

YES, changes have and will occur. Some I really am not crazy about such as Stoneheart.

I really wonder if Cersei will become as crazy as she is in the books. As I write this I am thinking it possible if Cersei wins that may happen after. IE, a mad queen vs mad king thing.


Mike V. said...

Yes it would be interesting if the end of thrones mirrors Robert's rebellion and Cersei is going to light King's Landing ablaze (and maybe she does...maybe it's not the dragons that scorch the Red Keep like we see in dany's vision. I mentioned this before) And of MJ suggested it would be great to see mirroring in Jaime killing cersei...and maybe he stabs her in the back in a very similar situation that he did to the mad king.

I agree on Stoneheart...but I understand how it may have added more story that they couldn't fit in..perhaps.

Interesting stuff on boxing. makes sense!

Anonymous said...

So, this morning it occurs to me that Euron doesn't have any significant navies to fight. He's defeated most of the ships of his enemies. So, what's he to do? I suspect we will see some Yara torture stuff. But, as far as making big moves to win a battle, it looks like he's won. Which has me wondering about 3 possibilities.
1. Is there a navy we don't know about?
2. Yara will find a way to take him down. This seems kind of unlikely, particularly near term since the Cersei and Jaime stuff with Euron being a jerk is kind of what GoT does.
3. Kindling for Dany's dragons.

What will be the use of his ships and the Silence? Maybe long term used to fight the WW? But, I don't see that happening with Euron in command. Maybe Davos, but not Euron.

And of course there is the absent Saladhor which brings me back to 1 above OR Gendry!

But, they do serve as a great target for the dragons and it was foreshadowed in the last ep with wood burning ships being talked about at Dragonstone. The problem with this option is that Dany needs ships now and Euron's navy has the largest source. So, capturing most of those ships seems a better option than burning them all.


Mike V. said...

Listening to a podcast this morning made me realize something I totally didn't pick up on. Littlefinger tells Sansa to basically "know everything that has ever happened and is happening now" and then a second later Bran shows up. lol We're all fixated on Bran telling Jon the news he knows, but the fact that Bran is a resource to Sansa is something I didn't really consider too much. I knew Bran would have a large part to play in the battle against the Dead. But, he may play a part in dealings with Cersei as well.

@Richard - Good points with Euron defeating the navies. As I mentioned, I still think there probably are ships somewhere around Dragonstone, but I don't know that for sure. The 3 ships that are still loyal to Yara (where Theon is) probably will have a part to play as well. And yes...Dragons. lol

Interesting point that maybe that fleet will be used in the fight against the dead as well. That would depend on if we see wights and walkers take to the sea. They seemed to be unable to cross that barrier at hardhome.

LOL...hmmm...okay let me consider your Gendry and the Navy plot for a minute. There is a chance that Saladhor Saan picked up Gendry and he's gone full pirate since the last time we saw him. Dread Pirate Roberts and all. lol (ahhh bastard son of ROBERT??? Can't be just a coincidence lol)

Anonymous said...

I'm more thinking of the navy transporting. Of course Dany could use one now too.

Some good thoughts re Gendry of the sea.


Mike V. said...

Yeah definitely useful for transportation, if the show even cares about that anymore. lol

Anonymous said...

I have said some of the things here but this guy says a lot more and I agree with him. Leaving the books has resulted in some sillyness. The show feels rushed and incoherent sometimes.

And he's spot on re the Lannister army.

When Olenna asked why they hadn't attacked Highgarden earlier, I was thinking the same thing then remembered--because they were weak!! All of a sudden they are strong. AND, AND WITHOUT money. They grew their huge army without money, that was nuts!


Mike V. said...

I've read Stefan's book analysis and show analysis before. When I was reading through ADWD, he had an advanced copy and posted recaps of each chapter and I checked them out to see what I missed when reading. lol

Yeah they really didn't have a choice but abandon the books. It's not like GRRM said "i'll be done the series in 5 years" and stuck to it. They had to make a plan to end the very successful show...which leads to things feeling rushed. Sure they could've drawn out the series but eventually, I think the ratings would dwindle and they'd lose sight of an end goal.

I'll check out the article later, but I'm sure Stefan makes some valid points. The ones you raise are good ones. At this point, the show is a different entity than the books and I choose to just enjoy the ride to conclusion. lol

Mike V. said...

Reading Stefan's write-up:

"the main reason for Robb's loss was that he lost Winterfell"

I disagree with this. Robb's main reason for losing was marrying Talisa. Some of his bannermen (i.e. Boltons) started detracting and then aligned with Lannisters and Freys. Catelyn didn't help matters either with releasing Jaime (i.e. the Karstark conflict that continues through season 6) Losing Winterfell certainly was an issue, but not the reason they lost the war.

The "not providing crucial information" is a device a lot of shows suffer from. Apparently Bryan Cogman (writer on Thrones) tweeted back to someone commenting on the fact that Bran just didn't tell Sansa everything or why Castle Black didn't send a raven that Bran was there was something like, "oh THAT would've been a dramatic reveal" (sarcastically) I agree with want the biggest payoff...but sometimes that leads to questionable scenes where people don't talk to each other. It happened on LOST all of the time.

" you can clearly see why George R. R. Martin is such a good writer, and why it takes so much time to write the later entries in the series."

This is exactly the point you made in a previous discussion and I agree with it. It's why it's taking so long to write. He meticulously thinks through stuff. And I'm sure it's enjoying the Millions he's making on book and TV profits. lol And blogging of course!

Thanks for sharing the link. I used to always check out Tower of the Hand and now I forget sometimes. I've been waiting for them to finish filling out their Dance With Dragons chapter section of the site but they never have. They're procrastinating as much as GRRM! lol

Anonymous said...

Well, we can disagree about "the" reason Robb lost. To me, Talisa was representative of greater failures. And actually in things complex like war there are usually a multitude of reasons. I don't agree with Winterfell being "the" reason either. Robb was a bad decision maker and sometimes rash. Sometimes hampered or helped by Catelyn as well as by others. BUT, "the" biggest reason he lost was GRRM wanted it that way, LOL.

Your third paragraph, re "crucial information". The "dramatic reveal" stuff is one reason I don't like most shows. It's overdone to the point of loosing realism/credibility such that I can't relate to the show any more. That's one reason I tend to like shows such as GoT or scifi/fantasy. It's not supposed to be realistic so I can accept a certain level of incredulity. But, those shows can go way too far for me as well. With GoT lately, I kind of just accept a certain level of total junk and hope it passes quickly so that I can totally love the rest. Stefan's comments represent a point of view that seems obvious and I will keep in mind while I enjoy what's going on during our Sunday evening viewing. And when I say things like--"that's just nuts,bs, etc" it's kind of like a Jets fan watching his favorite football team drop a pass, lol.


Mike V. said...

lol touche' on GRRM. I can agree to that. Hard to disagree! But, while he was winning his battles he was losing the war off the field.

lol...I hear you on the crucial information. You know I love to bring up the ridiculousness of some things on the show as well, but still just love the show. I did it with LOST too. The Jets analogy is a good one. Coincidentally, GRRM is a Jets fan. lol

MJ said...

LOL on twist being what I said !

Anonymous said...

Been thinking about this more lately. I could see the dragons and dothraki making a huge impact in the next 2 to 3 eps. Leaving Dany to help Jon in the North, kind of a rescue for the finale.


Anonymous said...

I'm thinking Dany man be near her low point re Rocky/


Mike V. said...

Yeah you never know. would be nice if we saw some dragon/north stuff...I just feel that'll be next year. (or dragons in winter at least...might not be north)

Anyone see the screeshots for next ep yet?


Looks like those 3 Iron Born ships will return to Dragonstone...I'm sure that will play a part to alter Dany's request/plan to go by herself on a dragon to burn Euron's fleet.

Mike V. said...

So kinda speculation on Gendry due to comments in the books. I was listening to yet another thrones podcast of mine and they mentioned how it was discussed of reforging ICE from Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper and apparently someone knew of one other blacksmith in Essos (maybe Volantis?) that still could do it. (I thought I heard Tyrion?? None of this rings a bell to me) BUT....the podcast people thought that maybe a show version of this would be to "go with the blacksmith we know" and have Gendry be that missing link.

This, of course, would have to mean that ICE is a special sword that needs to exist to end the long night. Because why wouldn't 2 valaryan steel swords be better than 1? And of course there is Littlefinger's dagger that we need to find out why it's so special.

There was also speculation to why Mel is going to Volantis. Some theorize she's going to get LIGHTBRINGER (another prophesized sword)...and maybe get that for Dany. Some think she might bring back Kinvara (the other red priestess who creeped out Varys) or maybe an army of red priests/esses.....I think the SHOW reason is because Carice Van Houton was pregnant in the scenes that she DID film so her show time is limited. lol I was thinking maybe she was going to bring the stonemen back for the war....but A.) I don't know how she'd do that and B.) that's in Valayria not Volantis.

Anyway, just some crazy speculation.

Mike V. said...

FYI - I saw that this week's episode is the one that is the shortest episode ever of GoT. (about 50 minutes) Should be in for some long ones after that though. I know the finale is about 90 minutes. Think there are a couple others that clocked over 60.

Also, beware of spoilers....hackers and distributers have been leaking the episodes online. I'm avoiding. lol