Monday, November 4, 2013

The Walking Dead: Season 4 Episode 4 - Indifference

Hello everyone and welcome back to another discussion of The Walking Dead!  This season continues to delve deeper into these characters and their motivations while keeping the intensity high.  And while we did not have any major deaths as many predicted, there was a pretty powerful ousting to discuss!  Let's dive in and see what's worth discussing.

Discussion Points

Okay, so I'm going to skip the recap section this week.  Sometimes I think to myself, "everyone probably watched the episode if they're reading this, so why am I restating what happened?!"   If it's to point out little intricacies in the plot worth discussing (like with LOST), that's one thing.  But, if I'm just restating what happened in the episode, well that's kind of silly!    The ironic part is that in my bullets below I'll probably end up recapping anyway, and there's a chance I'll do it again in the future!  But for right now, just go with it! 
  • So Carol has been kicked out by the hypocrite former leader Rick.  He's looking out for his family and doesn't trust her recent actions.  It started with her trying to turn Carl against him, or at least for him to lie to his father.  It peaked with handling Karen and Dave and then he solidified his decision with her decisions on their journey for supplies this week.  It definitely is debatable whether this is the right course of action.  And Carol brought up a good point with Rick killing Shane.  But, I do agree with Shane that it was a little different.  Shane had the right mentality for the Zombie apocalypse but it was poisoned by his love for Lori and Carl.  And, if I recall, wasn't he going to kill Rick?  So, Rick just took care of things first.  The debate is that Karen and Dave would turn and then kill them also.   But, they had the situation contained and was not Carol's call to make.    
  • What this did do was avoid a major conflict in the prison.  With Carol coming back and Rick ratting her out to Ty, things would have gotten messy.  But, who says it won't get messy anyway?  Rick has to explain why Carol isn't with her.  If he tells the truth, there will be a division in the group on if he was right or not.  If he says she died, well what if Carol runs into these guys again?  Considering Daryl and Carol have some unfinished story to attend to (we assume), I'm thinking there's a good chance we'll see Carol again.  If he says she died, and then we find out he lied, well that's just going to make things worse.  So, it was a tough call for Rick to make.  And it was an interesting call since he's being reluctant on being the leader.  Of course, he said he did it for him, not the group so I guess that's his justification.  
  • They did focus on Carol a lot in this episode and about her transformation into the "No Emotion, Do What has to be done" mentality that she has.  She spoke of her former life with the abusive husband and Sofia as if it's someone else's life.  She wouldn't even refer to her daughter by name when discussing it with Rick.  If you want to stay alive, I guess it's the right mentality to have and considering she has no family to worry about (like Rick), it's probably easier to have that mentality.  But, she COULD have family.  She distances herself from Mica and Lizzy.  Lizzy accidentally called her Mom and Carol drove home the point for her to never do it again.  She spoke to Lizzy how you keep fighting the fear and eventually it goes away.  Of course, the funny thing about ignoring her past is that she did use her skills of fixing a dislocated shoulder from her abusive past.  
  • We met Sam and Ava (?) in this episode.  I have no idea if either of them are comic book characters or not.  But, Ava didn't last very long.  Not really sure what was wrong with her bum leg, but it was removed from the rest of her zombie eaten self in the end.  Sam was nowhere to be found and missed his rendezvous with Rick and Carol.  I guess there's a chance that Carol will run into him and team up.  But, there's also a chance that he'll be the Russian in the Pine Barrens from the classic Sopranos episode.  (If that doesn't make any sense, just Google it or better yet watch The Sopranos!)
  • So, then there was the other road trip gone awry that we caught up with.  Tyreese is still in a bad state.  With the walker run-in on the road, they lost their car and lost a day in the hopes of curing the prison's plague.  He assumes his sister is dead along with everyone else.  He almost lets the walker at the gas station take him.  But, his support system made sure that didn't happen.  
  • Kudos to Chris Jericho on Talking Dead for making 200% more sense than Mr. Manson last week.  He figured out the theme of this episode was "Letting Go" and then went on to dissect how each character was having trouble with it.  Ty wouldn't let go of the walker, Michonne wouldn't let go of the hunt for The Governor even though the trail went cold, Bob won't let go of his bag full of alcohol, etc....  Very astute observation Mr. Jericho! 
  • Bob had his big moment with Daryl confessing to causing the death of Zach in the season premiere at The Big Spot.  Daryl explained to him how it wasn't his fault, but then lived to regret those words when Bob found another bottle at the Veterinary School and ONLY put that in his bag instead of medical supplies.  Ironically, it was Tyreese who stopped Daryl from doing something drastic to Bob.  I believe he even may have told him to let it go.   Bob already felt shamed enough.  But, that didn't stop him from keeping the bottle after it almost got them all killed by a hoard of walkers.  
  • So yeah, we debated last week if they were even close to their destination.  It turns out that they weren't as most of the episode took place at a gas station where we watched (Much to the lady viewers' pleasure) manly Daryl fix up a car so they could take it for the rest of their journey.  And it doesn't get much more manly than Daryl in a mini-van does it!?  Maybe it was or wasn't intentional, but it's pretty funny that Michonne was all of a sudden the driver when they had to carry on in the van!  
  • So Daryl was getting on Michonne's case all episode about giving up the Governor hunt.  Or just being with the group.  Daryl was picking up stones for some random guy back at the prison, which shocked Michonne.  By the end of the episode, Michonne had come around and implied she was going to stick around.  She said she doesn't need to run anymore.  She also talked about how she didn't know what was fueling her desire to keep hunting for the Gov.  She WAS angry, but she just kept doing it even past that point.  I guess it was her inability to LET GO!   Having said that, she will kill him if she sees him because that would "make things right".  
  • So, in the end, the group has the meds and are heading back to the prison.  Rick has kicked Carol to the curb and is heading back.  There's still an anonymous rat provider to the walkers residing in the prison and plenty more conflict to come.  And just because we didn't see our sick people this week doesn't mean they didn't get worse.  Glenn, Hershel, Sasha, and Dr. S. are on watch!   Out of those 4, I'd say Glenn has the best chance of staying with us.  Of course, then there's the isolated kids who they keep foreshadowing will have to fight.  That can only lead to something disturbing! 
Okay, how did I do?  No recap, but hit a bunch of talking points.  I'm sure there's more to discuss and that's why we have a comments section!  I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts.  Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and I'll see you next week! 


MJ said...

Can't believe I'm the first commenter ! ;-D Any way you want to do it is fine with me - recapping or just commenting.

Hill-billy chick might have been Anna? She did say she'd broken her leg and that while it healed the bones did not knit back up right so she walked funny. They were focusing so much on Carol I was sure she was gonna die - you know how they do that ! LOL on the Russian in the Pine Barrens.

My cat would have made more sense then Marily Manson - but was hysterical when Chris thanks heis guests for being lucid this week. And agree - that fighter guy was truly right on the nose with his observations about letting go.

Hope Michonne isn't staying and now Daryl will leave to go look for Carol.

Wow - what an episode. I am totally divided internally with how I feel. I understand why Carol did what she did - though I do think she was probably wrong (we don't know yet but she could have been right). And I understand her drive to teach the kids what she is - even though she never checked with their parents which was wrong. I get that it all stems from Sophia and how Carol probably now feels that she did not prep Sophia to live in this world.

I understand what Rick was doing and both his reasons (save Carol from Tyreese and protect his kids from Carol) but don't know that I agree with him either. Also - Rick gave up his Ricktatorship - so how does he get to decide anything for this group !?! I'm dying to see what he tells everyone when he gets back. And how Daryl reacts. They went to great lengths this ep to show how much Daryl has invested himself with this group - how much he now cares and interacts with them. I'm sure its no coincidence they highlight that right now. And another point - Rick went awfully dark and quite crazy - but no one decided to vote him off the island. Does not Carol get a second chance too ? For us it was all off camera but all these poeple who joined them became part of the group. It had to hurt to lose like 14 of them in one night. Besides Carol just being bad-ass I do think that the size of the loss affected her too.

Very chilling when Carol said she did not have kids. Then said Sophia was basicly from her other life. Yikes. And Daryl - calling people who chose to end their own lives d-bags? He seemed a bit harsh in this ep. But Bob - who I feel is soon to die - he was very sad. Having been the lone survivor twice and hating the silence and quiet in his own head - drinking to make that go away.

RIP hill-billy couple - assuming we never see the guy again. The guy on Talking Dead had a very good point - the whole show was about letting go.

And let me just say - how the hell are you just grabbing some meds? You grab them all ! You ain't coming back here. That was dumb.

Guess it boils down to this for me - if Carol does not have the right to decide if someone dies, then Rick does not have the right to decide if Carol can live at the prison. Just saying.

As for the Shane thing - apples and oranges. Shane was going to kill Rick to take hi wife ! Not even close to what Carol did.

Off topic - rented Oblivion - was surprised to see Jamie Lannister !

Mike V. said...

Wow, that's almost as long as my "recap" this week! :-) lol Good stuff. I'd say it will depend on how much time I have from week to week if I just do it this way vs. recapping. But, sometimes I do think the whole "recapping" concept is pointless. I even tried to avoid it with the LOST blog by linking to the ACTUAL recap and just putting bullets of the big discussion points. But, at some point, I started feeling like every word uttered and every visual shown was important to discuss so I recapped in-depth. I don't usually get that feeling for shows since! lol

I know that Ava/Anna mentioned her leg didn't heal right....but I didn't know how the leg would just fall off! LOL Unless the walkers but it off. Definitely know how they do that with focusing on a character right before death. I thought for a second Rick might shoot Carol herself! But leaving her on her own might be worse than death!

LOL on your cat vs. Manson!

Ahhh...good point on Michonne and Daryl. It will really depend on what Rick tells the group about Carol and what crisis they're facing at the prison when they all get back.

Totally spot on with Carol and her lack or preparing Sophia (and her incorrect way of going about things with everyone else). All good points on Rick, Daryl and the 14 lost too. I definitely think if Daryl finds out the truth, he's not going to be happy. He won't be happy if he thinks she's dead either.

So Bob not long for this world eh? I know he was a character in the comics, but don't know how significant. But yeah...based on everything they've shown us so far, the odds are stacked against him. I agree. All chilling stuff. Scott Gimple is doing a good job getting to the heart of emotions with what these characters have been through in this apocalyptic world. Adds a whole new layer to the show, which had been missing for awhile. I felt it in season 1 and they seemed to go astray from that.

Good point on the meds. I didn't even think about it when they did it. Yeah, I would've gotten everything!

I agree with your points on Carol vs. Rick. I guess that's why Rick said he was doing it for himself. He wasn't doing it as the "leader". He knows he probably doesn't have the right, but I guess Carol respected his decision enough to leave. But yeah...neither of them were really right in this situation.

That's what I thought with Shane. Couldn't remember the details exactly. And yeah, that's much worse.

Oblivion - I rented that a couple months back and really enjoyed it. And yes...Jaime Lannister was certainly there! Michael Arndt's name was attached to that as well and he was writing the script for Star Wars Episode VII. But there have been rumors of turmoil behind the scenes and JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan (Empire Strikes Back) have taken over script writing duties. Maybe they truly are taking what he's done so far and enhancing it. But, I've heard rumors of total new plot and characters and possibly pushing the release date to 2016. Crazy. With all of those names involved, I'm not losing hope though. I think there's a chance for this to be really good! But yes..Oblivion was a good time!

MJ said...

yeah - guessing they just yanked it off. It was all for the shot - so we'd see the tatt and know it was her. LOL i also had it cross my mind that Rick was gonna shoot Carol. I can't see Rick lying and saying she is dead, but i can't see him telling Daryl he told Carol to hit the road either. Huh - to me season 3 was where they totally got away from the character development. It was high octane action all the time. It was almost like watching a video game. We liked it - cause it was the season after the farm slowness (which was nothing but character discussion for half the whole season) - but i do prefer the balance.

Now that Carol has her own ride - what if she just rides up to the prison and says that Rick kicked her out !?! I doubt it - but would be kinda fun.

I think it truly says something about a show where you can't even decide who is right and wrong. Guess they each are both right and wrong. LOL but how many shows write it in such a way that it's cloudy ?? I'm sure lots of people are either team Carol or team Rick - but Im stuck in the middle. :-P

Mike V. said...

Agree..just for the shot of the leg. lol're right..last season was where they abandoned character where season 2 they overloaded on it. But, I even think this season is adding a different layer of just how bad living in this world is that we really didn't dive into too much yet. It helps to meet these new characters with different experiences to get that.

LOL on Carol just showing up. I don't know if she would risk it if Rick rats her out! But yeah we have no idea what he's going to tell everyone.

I'm definitely stuck in the middle too and just enjoy the conflict. But, when ambitions and motives are cloudy, it drives discussion which is good! Shows like this LOOOOOVE ambiguity! lol

mj said...

Very good points. And yes - it's the time in the story to start saying just how bad life really is. And how it really is impacting their psyches (sp?). Bob can't stand the quiet in his head when he's alone. Daryl is calling people who chose not to live in this world d-bags. I wouldn't want to live like they are! Life is not going to get easier either

Leslie said...

Mike….the talking points work just fine. I’m late in commenting. Hate when work gets in the way! lol

Agree with MJ - Carol and Rick both acted too quickly and neither should have made those moves on their own. They have this council now and should have used it. And, this wasn’t at all like Shane and Rick. Not a good argument, Carol. I think Rick stretched it with not feeling safe with Carol around his kids. What Rick says when he gets back will be key. I don’t think Daryl will just take his story and do nothing...whatever it is. I also thought what would stop Carol from going back on her own?

I know they had limited ability to carry meds and supplies from the school, but once you got the specifics, fill up your bags people!!!

Funny on Talking Dead with the comments about Manson and MJ’s cat! lol

Mike V. said...

Appreciate the feedback Leslie!

And I agree...whatever Rick says, Daryl may not take it at surface value.'s a thought. What if Carol runs into the Governor or discovers something and uses it as her way back into the prison?? If she comes back with intel, maybe that works to her advantage. Of course, if Rick tells the truth about what happened, I think she'll have her supporters and her contractors. And maybe that's where this is all headed anyway. Civil War within the prison.

And then maybe ol' Governor will hit them when they're amidst this turmoil.

Leslie said...

Oh, hadn't thought of Carol running into the Governor. That might be an interesting way to go.

Mike V. said...

Supporters and DETRACTORS (not contractors)...yikes! My work lingo is mixing in with my blogging lingo! lol

And agreed Leslie. I hadn't thought about it either until it just came to me. We keep wondering HOW he's going to show up. There's one way how! lol

Anonymous said...

I am not surprised about the Carol thing - she really is a different person than she was in the beginning. Hopefully she will be more careful out on her own than she was when she was tryng to fix the water pipe outside the prison fence!

I am still wondering about the rates. Can we assume that since it hasn't happened agasin that A) the person that was doing it is dead, or B) sick and in isolation? We are running out of people ie. SUSPECTS!!!! Gotta be one of those Woodbury folks or perhaps the Governor himself. I would not be surprised at all to find that he is hiding out in another area of the prison. This form of sabotage is right up his alley!

I think Rick did the right thing parting ways with Carol. It would have created too much chaos to bring her back to the prison, and I don't know that RIck could have kept the secret, or even if he wanted to. If I was Carol, though, I would have been disappointed that he could so easily let her go. My feelings would have been hurt. It really has always been every man for himself when it comes down to it, and he's looking our for he and his kids. It's just such a cold world though, poor Carol. Can't wait to see how Darryl reacts to all of this!

I did not see the Talking Dead episode with Marilyn Manson but it sounds like a hoot! The guest on this week's show was quite knowledgeable and had some interesting theories.

I sure hope we don't lose everyone that's in isolation (especially Hershell, I love that guy!) And Glenn of course.

And I agree with most of you -- Rick shooting Shane, Carol killing those two sickies -- not even close to the same thing.

I realize I'm jumping all over the map here and not contributing anything new, so I'll sign off for now.

Later! Cajun