Monday, June 15, 2015

Game of Thrones: Season 5 Episode 10 - Mother's Mercy

Hello everyone and welcome to our final installment of Game of Thrones recapping for season 5!  And WOW, can you believe what just went down in that episode?  Thrilling from start to finish.  A mix of plots that have yet to happen in the books and what definitely happened.  We have now chronologically reached the point where the TV Show has caught up to where A Dance With Dragons  (book 5) ends.  There are some plot lines that haven't been covered yet that seem like they may still happen next year, but for the most part we are in uncharted territory!   One has to assume George R. R. Martin is almost finished with The Winds of Winter, but he has long since stopped updating fans on when he thinks he'll release a book due to not making those deadlines in the past.  Most betting fans would bet he'll release it RIGHT BEFORE season 6 airs to optimize sales.  We shall see.

But, this season certainly was a rollercoaster ride of emotions and it ended on a pretty shocking note (even if it was heavily foreshadowed throughout the season).   A couple of us book readers have been debating how the scene would go down and where exactly it would end all season long (feel free to go back and read those spoiler discussions in all of the comments.  We'll talk a little more in this recap about the implications and what book fans have theorized about.

A minor note on Spoiler Warnings.  I usually freely discuss anything that has been covered in the books and try to avoid spoiling anything yet to come.  Now, that we're caught up we're in a huge grey area of what may or may not be a spoiler!  I will still use caution on discussing things that might still happen in the show.  Let's do this!
EW Links (There's lots of them)


Things finally came to a head at Winterfell.  But things took a major left turn last week with the "future book spoiling" killing of Shireen.  It pretty much signaled the downfall of Stannis.  Half of his army (the mounted ones) abandoned camp in the middle of the night, Selyse hung herself due to burning their child at the stake, and Melissandre realized she failed and this man truly was not the chosen one from the Lord of Light and quickly left camp.   Stannis marched forward anyway with a plan to siege Winterfell at dawn.   But, the Boltons were prepared in massive forces and slaughtered the remaining Baratheon army.

  • Nice far away CGI in this episode implying the scale of the battle.  And nice job tying in the Sansa, Brienne and Stannis plot.  (Was Brienne really just looking out that window all season?)
  • Book difference: This battle has yet to take place in the books.  The battle was put on hold due to the massive blizzard that hit (And a reminder, Shireen is still alive for now in the books).  I guess we're meant to thing Shireen's sacrifice thawed the winter storm?  Obviously, that makes no sense since he lost!  
  • Brienne abandoned her post finding out Stannis was nearby.  She waited until the end of battle to put him out of his misery.  He admitted to using black magic to kill Renly Baratheon (whom Brienne still referred to as the rightful heir).  Brienne sentenced Stannis to die and he accepted. The funny thing is, the producers discuss in the interviews above the old TV trick "if you don't see someone dying, then they're not dead."   They discussed how they argued over the frame to end the Ned Stark beheading scene to confirm he actually was beheaded.   So then WHY OH WHY not show Stannis getting killed and cut to Ramsay stabbing someone else?    It certainly seems like he was going to be killed.  His story seems to be over in the television show having been defeated.  I think even the official site confirms him as dead.  I'm sure we'll see an exit interview later today if he is.  But RIP Stannis.  Actually don't, you did some terrible stuff man! 
  • Meanwhile Ramsay was being Ramsay and ruthlessly murdering surrendering soldiers and talking about abusing his wife some more (well...implying).  
  • And Sansa was looking for a means to escape.  She finally lit that candle at the exact moment Brienne stopped looking.  That thing she gabbed a few weeks ago that we thought she'd stab Ramsay with was to unlock the Broken Tower.  
  • Things came to an exciting conclusion with Myranda catching Sansa and having her in her bow and arrow crosshairs.  She spoke to Ramsay's plans to dismember/disfigure Sansa retaining her useful parts for childbearing, but then not so much after.   Reek finally snapped out of it and threw Myranda off the ledge to her death.  YAY THEON, you're back!   There was nowhere else to go, so they totally Thelma and Louise'd it off the walls of Winterfell into the snow.   This was exactly Theon's arc in the book.  He saved Jeyne Poole (i.e. Fake Arya who married Ramsay) and they escaped by jumping off the wall.  It was the last thing we saw of Theon in the books too.  (There have been released chapters of Winds of Winter, but the Theon related one I have yet to read)    But, anyone that has watched Frozen, knows that if there's at least 50 feet of fresh powder at the bottom of a large fall, you'll be perfectly okay!  I'm sure Theon and Sansa are just fine.  Maybe a few bruises.  But once again, we didn't see them perish!  

Game of Thrones marketing team must've realized they've been spoiling things with the "Previously On" so they got tricky with this one!  2 characters we haven't seen since season 1 were featured in the clips and neither of them made a return appearance.   But, both of their names were mentioned in the episode.  The first one was Syrrio Forel, Arya's sword fighting trainer (From Braavos) who was allegedly killed by Meryn Trant.  We had a nice setup last week of Meryn liking younger girls.  This week he stepped up his game to beating younger girls.  But one girl didn't scream.  I kind of suspected it might be our Arya wearing a different face!

  • What a great payoff to this season's training in the House of Black and White!  She went to town on Meryn Trant and Maisie Williams' performance was incredible.   She recanted his sins before finally taking him out referring to him as "no one" and admitting she is Arya Stark.  I know.  Why do we cheer for scenes like this but get repulsed by other scenes in the show?  It's because we love Arya and we WANT her to get her revenge.  
  • Granted, Jaqen was not happy with Arya for killing the wrong man and that another life must be taken to offer up to the many faced god.  Jaqen drinks a poison and dies.  But no it's not Jaqen!  It was NO ONE!  Someone that was truly no one had many faces.  Another man came in looking like Jaqen explained what it takes to be truly no one.  
  • The final face that Arya saw on the dead body was her own which was totally some Empire Strikes Back vibes from THE CAVE!  
  • This played out a little differently in the show than it did in the books.  For starters Jaqen was somewhere else in the books, and that seemingly still could happen next season.  With the way this concluded, it is very possible that the Jaqen that Arya met in Westeros was not in Braavos this entire time and truly was just a familiar face for Arya and the audience to latch onto.  
  • What did happen in the books, though much earlier was her blinding punishment.  I believe it's how her chapters in A Feast for Crows end.  She does kill the wrong man in the books too, but it wasn't Meryn Trant.  
  • So, we are left with a cliffhanger in her story and maybe I know a couple nuggets of what else lies ahead for her.  But, not too much. 

Painful to the end!  I think we're meant to assume that Ellaria Sand murdered Myrcella by kissing her with poison on her lips.

  • Of course, not before Myrcella reveals that she knows Jaime is her father and they share a very loving embrace.  You should never feel happy for characters on this show!  I will say that Myrcella is very much alive in the books though she is missing an ear from an attempt to pull her out of Dorne.     And Ellaria Sand had nothing to do with any of it.  But, I guess this goes further into fulfilling Cersei's prophecy.  She has one child remaining.  
  • The Bronn/Tyene stuff was probably meant to be amusing and maybe it would've been if those Sand Snakes weren't so painful to watch! 

Tyrion, Daario, Jorah, Missendi and Grey Worm meet in the Throne room and discuss next steps.

  • Lots of banter, and humorous banter at that.  Jorah and Tyrion were at odds.  Daario and Jorah were at odds because they love the same woman.  Missendi speaks of little man saving her and he says some funny stuff in Valyrian which she corrects.   Grey Worm apologizes for not being able to lend a hand.  
  • In the end, Jorah and Daario are going to head North to find Dany.  Tyrion, Grey Worm and Missendi are going to run Meereen and try to keep the city from breaking in to Civil War.  NONE OF THIS is in the books.  Meereen in the books is totally on the brink of War, Dany is missing.  And Barristan is left in charge trying to prepare the city for battle.  But it's also because Yunkai and Astaphor (the other 2 cities that Dany freed) rebelled and the masters were back in charge and were heading to Meereen for battle.  There were also many other people heading towards Dany in the books (characters we just met in the later books and don't look to be revealed on the show.  Just in case, I won't say who they were.).  All of them were heading to Meereen for battle.  GRRM has spoken about book 6 opening with the Battle of Winterfell and The Battle of Meereen to indicate how large things had escalated (and how much was NOT covered in A Dance with Dragons).   
  • So, maybe there is still a battle coming, but I have to guess that Benioff and Weiss want to pull the talent OUT of Meereen and back to Westeros as quickly as possible.  Maybe not though, because they did honor another cliffhanging story out of the books with Dany. 
  • As I said last week, there was one more chapter to go with Dany and we certainly saw it.  Dany couldn't get Drogon to fly.  He is injured from the spears that stabbed him last week.  Dany has no idea where they flew off to, but we at least know it was North of Meereen.  She starts wandering around and a large group of Dothraki came and surrounded her!   I mean, seriously large.   Maybe it's the same Dothraki riders that Khal Drogo once commanded and they just have budget to show more of them.  But, it's tough to tell if they were riding to her aid or are going to capture her.  I think it may have been slightly different in the books. I thought she did mount Drogon one more time and flew TOWARDS the Dothraki hoard.  Regardless, Dany will be dealing with the Dothraki next season.  And if I was a betting man, that hoard would be joining the Unsullied and her new council as they travel West.   If only they had a fleet to bring the armies on.  Hmmm 

King's Landing
Cersei finally atoned for "some" of her sins.  She confessed to the High Septon about sleeping with Lancel, her cousin.  She did not confess to birthing 3 children with her brother.  She was a broken woman though and just wanted to get back to the red keep.  All of this was very close to what was in the books.  The Septon allowed her to return to the Keep.  But he kept it a surprise of how she was going to get there.

  • Cersei was stripped down, head shaved and bathed for her walk of atonement.  This was one of the big moments we knew was coming this season but it was shot pretty incredibly even if it was tough to watch.  
  • Cersei walked down the streets getting sneered, crap thrown her, spit on, assaulted (though the Militant were pretty good at beating down said assaulters).  You can tell that she was emotionally drained by the end of the walk and her feet weren't doing too well either.   
  • No fear though, when she arrived back at the Red Keep, her uncle Kevan Lannister, Pycelle and Qyburn were waiting for her.  Qyburn introduced her to the resurrected Mountain.  Ugh, they didn't say his name so I guess I can't either.  It might be one of the worst names GRRM has ever come up with!  Anyway, Mountain 2.0 pretty much looks like a zombie behind that mask, and is trained to take out all of Cersei's wrongdoers.  Stay tuned for season 6 when she probably will take out that nun lady first!

Castle Black
We open up with Jon and Sam talking about what happened at Hardhome.  They speak of the dragon glass not being enough to stop the white walkers.  They speak of Valaryan steel and wonder how much is left in the 7 kingdoms.  They speak of Jon being the most hated man in Castle Black.  And then they speak of removing all of Jon's allies at the wall by sending Sam to the Citadel.

  • We were pretty certain at the beginning of this season that Sam's journey to Oldtowne wasn't going to happen, but then they started hinting at it mid-season.  I spoke various times of him traveling for a lot of the stories that happened this season.  In the books, he brings Gilly and Mance Rayder's baby with them.  But he also brings Aemon Targaryan, who dies on the voyage.  They get to Oldtowne by the end of A Feast for Crows, and there was a cliffhanger there.  But, my guess is they'll be fast forwarding that journey and just start his citadel training pretty early in season 6.  (Which we haven't gotten to yet in the books)  In the books it's also Jon's plan to send him to Oldtowne, not him giving Sam permission.  
  • But, it all makes sense.  Sam is destined to be a maester due to his knowledge.  The dude loves to read and the Citadel has the largest library in the world.  
  • Sam also admits to sleeping with Gilly.  Jon doesn't seem to care too much about their vows at that point and glad Sam is enjoying the end of the world! 
  • Then things start going badly.  Davos gets to the Wall and asks for Wildling help in the battle at Winterfell.  Jon refuses saying it's not their battle.  Then, Melissandre arrives in the quickest journey from Winterfell to Castle Black ever!  It's written all over her face what happened.  She doesn't have to say a word.   Jon filled in the rest of the gaps by reading scrolls with the news of what happened to Stannis, his daughter, his wife, his army.  
  • Then Olly comes in to tell Jon of amazing news.  Uncle Benjen Stark (remember him?) is alive and a wildling knows where he is! Jon is brought down to the courtyard, walks through a bunch of rangers only to find a sign that says "TRAITOR" on it.  He turns around and Alliser Thorne stabs Jon in the gut saying, "For the Watch".  This is followed by many Night's Watch people doing exactly the same.  But then, Olly fulfilled the purpose of his TV SHOW creation, and came in with some tears and says, "For the Watch" stabbing Jon in the Heart and letting him fall to the ground to bleed out and breathe his last breaths.   RIP Jon Snow.   WHAAAT!?!?!?!?!?! 

Yep, Jon Snow dies in the book too.  It's one of the final chapters in A Dance With Dragons.  And everyone was shocked.  The thing is, book fans are not accepting it.  And George R. R. Martin is quick to suggest he's not dead forever which aids book fans not accepting it.  What we had discussed in our spoiler sections and will probably continue to discuss is that it would all come down to if Kit Harrington does an Exit Interview.  Guess what?  He did!  He and the producers are both saying Jon Snow is dead.  Kit is saying he's not coming back.  He even discussed his contract that was renewed for 2 seasons and was mad that that came out.  He said the news was inaccurate.  Guess what?  Most fans aren't buying it and calling it a complete cover-up.

Let's look at the facts.  Melissandre drove at light speed to make sure she was at the wall for Jon Snow's death.  We know that Stannis Baratheon is not Azor Ahai's 2nd coming.  We have a TV SHOW ONLY scene where Melissandre meets Thoros of Myr (the Red Priest with the Brotherhood without Banners) who has resurrected Beric Dondarrion like 5 times or something.  She was never able to bring anyone back from the dead as she suggested the Lord of Light never spoke through her.   But, I believe Thoros was in a bad state the first time he brought Beric back.  Depressed, drunk and desperate.   Right now Melissandre is not the confident Red Priestess she's been since season 2.  If she sensed something in Jon Snow (which is why she wanted to get with him earlier this season), she might think that HE is indeed Azor Ahai's 2nd coming.  Perhaps Jon Snow is dead, but the prince that was promised will rise (Okay, 2 separate prophecies in the books that could be the same).   Another clue is that Melissandre never left Castle Black in the books.  So her being at the wall seems important in both show and book.

And there's one final clue that Jon isn't gone forever.  THE THEORY!  We still do not know 100% for certain who Jon's mother is.  We have very strong theories and believe the parentage of Jon Snow is important.   How important is it if he remains dead?

So yes, we smell a cover-up and a big one at that!  Regardless, it's a shocking way to end the season.  And even more shocking if his death sticks.  I'm going to choose to hold out hope.  But, I'm also going to hope George gets that book out before next April!

In any case, we have a whole year of discussing to do.  So let's get started!   Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and I'll see you next year!  


MJ said...

My first thoughts are just - Holy Crap. They killed Jon Snow ! Noooooooo! AND Stannis. What ?? So there really is no battle for the throne.
It's Danny vs a 10 year old kid. I couldn't belive Melisandre just left Stannis! And I knew immediately when Ellaria kissed Myrcella that she
was a goner ! And while Brienne finally got some revenge for Renly she missed Sansa's lighting of the candle. I don't care how much snow there is that jump would break a leg or ankle at a minimum. And Cersei - not that I have any sympathies for her but damn! That was some harsh stuff. And what on earth is the Mountain now ? I'm thinking that Dany is in a lot of trouble now ! And this is the fix for the Myreneese knot? Put Tyrion and Varys in charge ! LOL Jamie watching his kid die I guess finally evens the score for him pushing a child out of the window - cause unlike most I do not feel he had redeemed himself. And Arya - yikes !

Ok - so now I have to read your recap and any comments that will be there by the time I'm done.

I'm really not happy they killed Jon. He is pretty much the only character (except kids) that have truly done nothing wrong or bad to any one.

Anonymous said...

Just FYI. I've been waiting for your recap since about 6:30==lol. After I post here, I'll read it. THANKS

My thoughts on where we are now:
1. Jon Snow is dead. His blood pooling very fast on the snow under neath him made me think that my thoughts of him becoming ICE to Dany's fire just may be on track.
2. Melissandre may or may not have anything to do with Jon's future. She's surely a proven failure so I don't know how she could get anyone to follow her. Oh and btw, she made it in less than 1 ep back to CB--lol. TV time at work.
3. I'm not convinced Stannis is dead. He probably is, but his confession of the smoke monster killing Renly is probably something Brienne would like for others to hear.
4. Cersei is going to be so p*^^ed and looking for revenge after the walk and Myrcella's murder.
5.OF course Jamie's explanation of bad blood between the Lannisters and Martells sets up a big fight next season. I'm looking forward to Ellaria dying a horrible death.
6. I really don't care much about what goes on around Winterfell any more, including what happens to Sansa, Stannis,etc. Long live Ramsay!!!! Was anyone even partially thinking Sansa was going to take an arrow--lol??
6. Glad to see how Arya became blind, she deserves it--lol. I didn't think Jaqen was fooled last week.
7. Dany shouldn't have a lot of problems with the Dothraki's. If the show was trying to set up her being threatened, they have so failed due to her supposedly being such a BA and with dragons--lol.
8. Surprised no Tormund this ep. Will be interesting to see how he and Allyser deal with each other next season.
9. Lots of key spoilers for TWOW. Book readers are experiencing things in the opposite direction now. I mean there are some things that COULD be considered not completely answered, but I would bet on what is KNOWN now is more than what was KNOWN before.
10. Loved Robert Strong and Cersei's semi evil smile when he picked her up.

Mike V. said...

UGH. Reading MJ's post made me remember about the varys and how I forgot to talk about him. more when I get to work!

Anonymous said...

Ellaria has put Tormund in danger, she's not very smart. Oberyn should have her executed. Tormund will find out how he was done wrong by his family soon.

I'm wondering if Jamie will tell his son about his parentage. He's really at a point that things have changed so much and he hasn't experienced the HIgh Septon yet. Of course I'm wondering if Cersei will have the High Septon killed. Still with her prophecy she's not supposed to be Queen, so questions remain.

Yea, the Dothraki will join the unsullied and go West.

Tyrion and Varys ruling in Mereen will be good for a few eps.

AFter Hardhome, the show in S6 can't wait too long before CB is taken out. I'm thinking the wights will go all Brad Pitt zombie stuff on Winterfell and the Bolton's next season.


Anonymous said...

So,I just got confirmation on something I noticed when Jon died. His face and eyes changed color/appearance in addition to the blood sinking quickly into the ground. What I just saw someone else post was HOW ABOUT BRAN and the power of the Fist People and his taping into the earth, etc? Maybe that's how he gets to be ICE. Bran saves Jon Snow makes more sense for what I suspect he will become than anything else I've thought of.


Anonymous said...

Oh yea, guess what with Stannis taken out(whether dead or not) only Greyjoy remains as one of the 5 Kings. I was wondering about that since Theon escaped?


Mike V. said...

Okay, so Varys - He's in Meereen now. Definitely not where he was in the books. He was part of the epilogue in the books and was up to some crazy stuff in King's Landing. Not sure if that'll happen in the show or not so I guess I'll stay quiet for now. But the fact that he's in Meereen is a WIN for us for however long he and Tyrion will be together doing stuff. But again...totally on a different track from the books so no clue where they're going with it. I was listening to a podcast on the way in and apparently some are speculating that maybe he's behind the sons of harpy in Meereen to accelerate Dany's exit from the town. I don't know about it. But he certainly has an agenda in the books and in case that agenda is introduced in the show, I should stay quiet.

@MJ - There still is a battle for the Throne. Martells and Lannisters are at odds. Stark Kids are still seeking vengeance. As Richard said, Balon Greyjoy is still in the mix. (not so much in the books. Again, can't say much because I don't know where they're going with that tv show story) But, I still have always viewed the battle for the throne as secondary to the song of Ice and Fire....White Walkers descending on King's Landing. Dragons growing and heading west. Jon Snow's story and Dany's Story. Which now we're all left very much up in the air about Jon Snow's story.

The fix in the books for the Meereenese Knot was since Dany was stuck in Meereen GRRM started moving players towards her to get her out. There were a lot more in play in the books than on the show. There was Martell Plot, a Greyjoy Plot, another mystery plot that went along with Tyrion's story. No idea if they're going to do all of that or not.

Jaime didn't redeem himself so much that we've forgotten his past. But he certainly became a more 3 dimensional and interesting character learning about his mixed emotions. And it was much better done in the books after the Brienne journey. This whole hanging out in King's Landing for a season and then in Dorne for another didn't work so well for him. But a lot of his journey was introspective in the books so maybe it wouldn't have worked so well.

Hold onto hope for Jon...that's all I can say. The interviews seem pretty convincing that he's not coming back...but the book faithful are not sold! lol

1. We'll see!

2. I said...LIGHT SPEED! She is a proven failure but I gave a case for how it might work this time where she's failed before. It can't be a coincidence that she's there.

Mike V. said...

3. Yeah...I'm not either. Good point on Brienne wanting others to hear his confession. Like they said and we always say...if you don't see the death it probably didn't happen.

4. Yeah...Cersei's a mess!

5. Good point on lannister/martell stuff. I miss Arianne Martell from the books. She was a better Ellaria. They really destroyed any credibility Ellaria had from last season turning her into a cartoon villain this year.

6. Nope...never thought for a second Sansa was getting an arrow. I did think Theon would save her and he did! I'm sure that's not enough redemption for all she went through though.

7. No Jaqen/Faceless Man/No One was not fooled last week....But, I always have seen Arya on the Batman Begins path..she'll learn the skills of the faceless men...but she still wants to hold onto her identity and not subscribe to all they believe in. Kinda like Bruce Wayne trained with the league of shadows.

8. Yeah interesting with no Tormund. ( called Tristane Tormund for a whole comment lol)

9. MAYBE key spoilers for TWOW. We won't know for sure until we read. Will Stannis's army really go down like that without a fighting chance?

10. ARRGHH you said his name!!! I know it doesn't matter. lol But it's so corny I wanted to see if they'd actually reveal it on the show.

YOUR OTHER COMMENTS: Yeah Tristane certainly could be in general now. Oberyn is I'm sure you mean Doran. lol Jaime telling Tommen...could happen I guess. So weird...Jaime never went back to KL in the maybe he still won't in the show. No clue on Cersei where they'll go with it. Well maybe some clue...but not much.

I think the show can certainly wait long before CB is taken out. Sam is going to Oldtowne which is FAAAAAAAR from Castle Black...and he said he wants to be ready for WHEN they come. That seemed to implicate we're still a ways off from that.
Interesting thoughts on Jon and Bran playing a role. Could happen. Lots of people theorized that Jon warged with Ghost (in the show and the books) right before he died. Ghost wasn't present for both versions. They make a big deal about that in the show that if you warg with a creature before dying your consciousness lives on in that creature. But in the show only really Bran is shown to have warging abilities...(in the books really all of the starks experience it. It's just Bran that acknowledges it and is aware)

One other big thing missing from the show was the announcement that Winter has arrived! Instead we get thawing icicles. As winter been put on hold in the show for budget reasons? lol

Anonymous said...

Wow,I've got to get my names straight--lol.

Yea Tristan is an asset to be used now or just point of revenge, ie revenge killing. We'll see but you have a good point that Jamie with this death may decide to take a different path than KL. I just don't know how much he knew about what was going on in KL. But after this he may have some paternal feelings towards Tommen and so wants to head back to help?

Yea, Doran is the guy who's got to be ready for a war now. I wonder if or with whom the Greyjoy's may side? Wouldn't it be interesting if Jamie went up to the Iron Islands instead of KL now. To get ready for war. I just thought Kevan would have more to say about a war, but with book vs show differences I don't know.

8, I meant Tormund, the wildling leader. I thought it was WEAK that Davos didn't approach him nor Jon approach him since it was his help that was sought. It was also weak that since they killed Jon because of him that he wasn't shown.

IF, IF, IF there is a revival of Jon somehow I think Bran doing it with powerful magic involving the Fist People would be so much more cool than if Melissandre did it. For one thing, she's kind of a looser now and who wants to be revived by a looser vs some really cool ancient magic. I'm only 50/50 that Jon comes back in any form now though. You and I both agreed that an exit interview would be a big clue and so to change a standard by which we were going to gauge would be kind of weak on our part. One things for sure, EVERYONE is going to try and photograph his movements, so we should know what he's up to.

It wouldn't be good if they drag out the Night King getting to CB to me at all. I mean they showed how tremendously fast they move and CB really isn't critical for Sam to return to. Sam needs to return to the battle field, wherever that might be, maybe Wintefell?

The Lord Commanders are just a target for the criminals at CB when you think about it. I really don't have much respect for them at all now. The last two have been murdered.

BTW, during that death scene Jon/Kit looked like such a looser weakling baby vs Stannis was a man. Kit is just a weak actor. He just so totally fails at being a lord commander demanding any respect or showing any real strength. The sand snakes and he should make a movie together and have as the title, "why bother watching?"--lol.


Anonymous said...

WOW, after I read the interview with Kit I'm MUCH less than 50/50 he's coming back.

Big implications for what's next. It's beginning to look like those in Westeros aren't going to be nearly as much of a force in dealing with the Night King. And so, when Dany arrives there won't be any Essos vs Westeros battles so much as trying to save Westeros.

Bran will likely have a role to play.


Anonymous said...

Who takes Longclaw?????


Mike V. said...

It's all good...I think I've mixed up names before too..if not on this show other ones!!

Good point on paternal feelings with Jaime. It's really anyone's guess at this point.

Yeah I have no idea how they'll squeeze in the Iron Islands stuff now. But I did hint in the recap at Dany needing a fleet to carry all of her soldiers west. lol
I think they tried to squeeze in a lot at the wall in the final minutes. It's probably why they didn't go to Tormund...And they probably would've gone to him next if Melissandre didn't show up revealing with no words what went down.

Beric Dondarrion was revived by a loser if you want to do the comparison. You should go back and watch the scene where Thanos explains reviving Beric to Arya. It seems like the exit interview is damage control for the 2 year contract renewal though. He said he was mad that that got out. Weiss was pretty cryptic with what he said. He said Dead is Dead. That doesn't mean he won't come back in another form. I guess that's also true that Kit Harrington may not have to return for Jon Snow/Azor Ahai or whatever to carry forward. But then you're getting into some weird stuff that the show might not want to do. They didn't bring LS into the fold! But they still showed Beric...there has to be a reason. Oh yeah...if he's spotted anywhere near the will come out before then.

I just hope we get a TWOW announcement soon.

Good point...The walkers/wights (2 different things let's remember) could be far south by the time Sam intervenes. You don't have respect for the Lord Commanders or the Night's Watch? But yes...they definitely have large targets on their back.
Oh come on...Kit Harrington really stepped up his game the past 2 seasons! It was those seasons in Greenland or wherever they filmed in the freezing snow that everyone's performances suffered. (not Ygritte though..she was awesome)

Mike V. said...

Still not 100% convinced by the interview, but when I read it I was thinking WOW he's doing a good job selling the lie if he's not serious. The comments section is what made me ponder more. Fans just aren't buying the statement. We'll probably know well before next season if he comes back or not.

Anonymous said...

Yea, good point on Greyjoy's and ships. And that thought really must consider how dire things would become in Westeros given how the Greyjoy's don't like to get involved in other people's business.

LOL, Kit really stepped up his game--LOL. Maybe, but he still lacked the weight he needed.


Mike V. said...

They're not seeming very ambiguous on Stannis in interviews either:

Mike V. said...

Agree to disagree on Kit! He's been much better than the sand snakes. I don't put them in the same category.

Anonymous said...

Seriously, You think it would be better for a looser Melissandre to revive Jon than Bran using ancient magic? Just because many thought that was her purpose in staying behind at CB, doesn't make that thought true.

Melissandre could very easily represent a decoy of sorts. The ONLY thing she has done for sure is to create a shadow killer with Stannis. Don't get me wrong, that's impressive. But she's mostly been good at torturing and poisoning people. There's no proof that the leaches did anything.

I'm really less than 10% that Jon/Kit will come back. And if a new Jon comes back(better than 10%), another actor may be better to portray whatever is resurrected. Again, Kit is just weak--lol.


MJ said...

Ugh - swamped at work today.! But was able to read your recap at least.

For some reason I felt like the finale was going to be anti-climactic. Didn't think Stannis was close enough to Winterfel for a battle yet. Not enough time for a trial for Cersei. Boy was I wrong !

Jon Snow - we all knew Ollie was really angry so I assumed he'd do something that would cause something to happen. But to have all those Night Watch turn on Jon was just horrible. DId not see that coming. Glad Sam did not have to watch that. I'm kinda pissed they killed him - had been looking forward to Jon leading the army of Night Watch and Free Folk together. And how did they get those scrolls ? And who is this Azor Ahai that you are talking about ? So people really think he is not dead huh ? I guess I have no comment since I don't know about some second coming or whatever. You didn't ***Spoiler that part.

Cersei - that was hard to watch even if she deserves all she gets. Usually they clear a set of non-essential people for nude scenes - couldn't do that for this one. You said Cersei's Brother Kevan ? LOL

Stannis - yes sacrificing your only kid is a horrible thing but lots of horrible things are done for religion all over the world. But damn - he had nothing but bad luck. Crazy wife kills herself, had a second defection of his men, his high priestess even left him - but he went on any way. He died with honor. Melisandre wanted him to think his sacrifice thawed the snow but obviously it was all for nothing and her god was proven to be not very good.

Sansa/Theon - don't know that I'd say he's back but at least he is acting of his own accord. Don't know if what Miranda said Ramsey was planning was true or not but dang ! That would have been horrible to watch. I can't believe the neither of them would not be hurt with that jump. And no - have not seen Frozen (LOL) but we'd just heard how a bunch of the snow had melted ! But yeah - they'll be fine.

Arya - yeah I think we'd all guessed it was Arya in disguise. You are right - why do we cheer this? LOL Because we were pre-disposed to like all the Starks really - especially the non-readers who felt early on that this was all the story of the Starks. And all the Starks - until now - have been the good guys who weren't out to hurt any one nor where they chasing power. The whole Jaqen not Jaqen thing just makes me roll my eyes truthfully - another freaky religion. But her being blind is something I did not see coming - no pun intended.

Myrcella - if jamie is such a redeemed character he should be turning that boat around and demanding justice from Prince Doran for the killing of his 'niece' . But he won't.

Dany - glad you could tell they were Dothraki. I could not. I thought she had all of Drogo's Dothrakians with her when she first hit the road a few years back? They were all starving and thirsty. They were they ones that she had when she fist came to the first slave city. And weren't the Dothraki afraid of the ocean ?

Mike V. said...

Just saw a theory that Shireen's life was taken so that Jon could be brought back. Maybe that'll be how she possibly brings him back in the books??? "only death can pay for life" as Jaqen would say.

Hibberd seems to want to believe he's coming back too even though he said he pressed Dan and Kit as hard as he could and they both just said "he's gone"

Another thing we can look at as a wink and nod in the show could be what Sam said to Olly a couple weeks ago. "Jon Snow always comes back" lol

Anonymous said...

Yea, I'm thinking dead is dead. Jon and Stannis are goners.

Maybe you could come up with some good plotlines where they're both gone now.

I'm thinking the loosers at CB(who kill their lord commanders and they are afterall usually criminals) won't last long when the Night King shows up. Seriously with Jon and Stannis out, Westeros has lost a lot of leadership. At KL, the Lannisters have lost a lot of power for lots of reasons, including the High Septon(who I think is now a target). REally Doran and Greyjoy, two previously minor players along with Bolton are the Westerosi power brokers now. Unless Jamie and Cersei together can make something happen. That would actually be pretty awesome to see. If Tommen dies soon as prophesied earlier this season, then with the fallout they could maybe put some kind of deal together.


Anonymous said...

Think about this guys. With Jon gone it makes Dany more important. And the prophecy more likely to be fulfilled with her.


Mike V. said...

Richard, All i know are the facts before me in the TV show and the books. We don't know if Bran will know how to use ancient magic to raise people from the dead. We know he can see the past, maybe the future...communicate through trees (actually...the show hasn't even gone there sorry for the mild spoiler!) But nothing has shown that he'd be able to raise the dead.

I get that Melissandre could be a red herring (pun partially intended)....My only point with her is she's never been as desperate as she is at this juncture...she was wrong about Stannis. And now she's come to the wall. Thoros was in a similar desperate state when he raised Beric. That's all i'm saying. I'm not saying what i would prefer. I'm stating TV facts.

Still 51% on Jon returning. lol

Azor Ahai has been brought up in the show too. Just not to the extent that you'd remember. It's who Melissandre has thought Stannis was for 4 seasons. She was wrong. But she also has been clearly obsessed with Jon Snow too. She feels something when she's around him. The first place she went when she realized Stannis wasn't the one was back to the wall. There aren't many things to "spoil" now that we're basically caught up. I'll still be careful with spoiler warnings. But that really isn't a spoiler because we don't know for sure if it's him or not. We are caught up to the books.

But no...many book fans do not believe he is dead (or dead for good) at least in the book. GRRM even has hinted at this. But now the theory is that the show and kit are playing cover-up with a fake exit interview to really make it seem like he's going to stay dead. Granted, it's just a theory and he might actually be dead. But, it really doesn't make sense at this juncture in the story.

Cersei - HA! whoops...Tywin's brother. I'll fix it! :) It's been confirmed that they used a body double for most of the filming. It seemed pretty clear in the beginning that they did. But not for the close-ups. Maybe the far away shots were a double.

Stannis - I think what it all proved to Mel was that he was not the chosen one that she thought he was. And Stannis being motivated by his beliefs in the red woman and his ambition went one step too far and everything crumbled. It'll be interesting to see if the same happens in the books.

Mike V. said...

Theon/Sansa - This is a little book knowledge...but the chapters were all called REEK in the book for his POV....then they started getting weird names...but the chapter when he escapes winterfell with fake was titled THEON again. So, I'll say he's back! But yes, I'm sure he'll have many scars from what's happened to him to overcome. I'll say that in the books..i never pictured the drop being that high when they jumped. lol But it was also snowing when they did it.

Arya - I wonder if that girl that she was disguised as was the same girl she helped die earlier this season? I'll have to double check that. Yeah..exactly..we're rooting for the Starks. And I still will believe to the end that this story is about the Starks and the redemption of their family. Obviously the bigger story is the whole Ice vs. Fire thing. But The Stark Kids will redeem that family. I know it! Funny on the pun/non-pun!

Myrcella - Yeah, I would've turned that boat right around. No telling where they're going next with that story.

Dany - Only a few dothraki remained with her Kalasaar (sp)...many left after Khal Drogo died. They definitely were Dothraki...they were holding their special swords that are closely associated to them. (There was a whole scene in season 1..i know you wouldn't remember lol...where Jorah and one of the Dothraki compared blades) It could be a whole new Khalasaar though...i really dont' know.
Yes they're afraid of the ocean...but that doesn't mean she won't bring them across the sea. It was always her plan. Like I said..i have no idea what's going to happen from hear on out so your guess is as good as mine!

Mike V. said...

I can't in good conscience come up with theories of where the show goes with Jon dead. lol Stannis, I buy that he's dead. I just don't know why they edited the scene the way they did.

I wonder if Jorah and Daario will stumble into Braavos if they're heading north. Or if they'll just stumble right into the Dothraki hoard Dany has.

The wonder twins saving Westeros? doesn't sound very satisfying! lol But I guess anything is possible.

Good point with Dany.

mj said...

Ugh. can't read ew articles. websensed at work and wants me to sign up but on my tablet and the form to input won't let me type

Anonymous said...

1. ARe you 51% with Jon returning or something returning that was once Jon?

2. What do you think about another actor playing the part of the "resurrected but different JOn"?


Anonymous said...

LOL on facts before you and you're 51% thinking Jon will come back.

Seems like some faith at work there Mike.


Mike V. said...

MJ, I know..I can't access EW at work either now and I'm a subscriber. It won't accept my logon! I access from my phone still though.

@Richard - 51% is still good odds that he won't be. I just am leaning towards him coming back still. Unless they're really going to stray THAT much from the books.

1.) I just don't know what I think about that. 51% that Kit Harrington will return. lol
2.) It's possible, I just don't know how well it would be received. But I certainly have thought about it.

Laugh all you want, it's definitely faith. I think there was also a quote where Kit said "i won't be back next season" so maybe he'd be back in season 7?? lol Could've been a cryptic tease.

I just have never felt that R+L=J would be a great reveal if he wasn't still alive in some form for the reveal.

Hibberd reshared this interview with GRRM after A Dance With Dragons was released (SPOILERISH Note, there are some storylines referred to that didn't happen in the books. i.e. Mance Rayder was at Winterfell too but he was already dead on the show. This also reminded me that Cersei's walk was in fact in ADWD and not A Feast for Crows) can feel free to read this interview now. It shouldn't be too spoilery now that we're caught up (granted..only if you can get the liunk to work!) . Just some vision stuff that Melissandre told Jon that she didn't in the show.

Mike V. said...

Another EW link we can't read! lol

Mike V. said...

Look at the poll results at the bottom of this article. I may be going on faith, but I'm not doing it alone!

Anonymous said...

LOL on S7 return for Snow. That's great. Love the optimism.

OH, yea I get it, almost everyone wants that weenie back--lol.

I've been amazed at how many are AGAIN threatening to quit watching with him killed off.


Mike V. said...

It's so funny, I guess I really just never assumed he actually was dead for good so even GRRM's comparisons to the Red Wedding in the 2011 article surprise me. It certainly is a big death but I just feel his story is not over. I guess Ned's wasn't really either and the story carried on. So it's possible. But his long term role just seemed much more pivotal than Ned's (because we've invested more time with him).

Yeah..i'm sure the polls are just people in denial. And obviously I'm with this show and book series to the end. I just don't see his story being over yet in either format. We'll see.

Anonymous said...

Jon's story with R+L=J, etc was a key point when GRRM met D&W so we all thought it would carry through to the end. I truly did NOT expect to see an exit interview!

When Ned died he definitely had a lot yet to do. But, as my daughter says, GOT is the show where the major actors die off. And with Sam gone from CB there's really no one at CB who are hero types for us to be backing with the NIghts Watch. The only major characters left are traitors. Davos, Melissandre and the wildlings are there but they're not Nights Watch. So, maybe this sets up a wall fall in S6--lol.

I don't like it that Dany is looking more and more like the "savior" if you will. It was just too obvious so I wasn't buying it. But hey, she's still standing and has dragons.

Don't forget the bank of Bravos still wants it's money.


Mike V. said...

Yeah but NO exit interview would've been even more obvious. And apparently D&D are infamous for lying in interviews. I forget examples (I'll google it). But in this case, all they said was "dead is dead". And he most certainly is dead. And they could just be being literal. But Beric Dondarrion died too. Yes it is a show where major characters die (based on a book where major characters die)...but there are enough hints that in the books it was only meant to be a cliffhanger and something he wanted fans debating until the next book comes out.

I could totally see them doing a season without Jon and the fallout happening. Even your wall destruction theory. Obviously something big has to happen if we're wrapping this stuff up in 2 seasons. And then maybe Jon Snow returns in some new form as a surprise in season 7 as a return as the one foretold. who knows? Maybe Melissandre takes his body and we don't hear from them for 10 episodes or what not. (I know...she could be a red herring..but she's there and there has to be a reason for that regardless)

Dany definitely has an important role to play too and surely we won't see her arc end before she gets to westeros. Savior?? maybe maybe not. Part of a battle save Westeros? 90% sure? At some point GRRM has to stop subverting expectations and just end the thing right? lol

Yes the Bank of Braavos wants its money. They seem to be all talk so far! I guess they won't be getting any money from Stannis!

I'm ready for Winds of Winter!!!!

Anonymous said...

Good point on NOT doing an interview leading to FULL expectations of Jon's return.

I did not know D&D are known to be misleading.

LOL on S7 return, again. In a strange way that would be great but again, I don't see Kit as the actor for who I have in mind.

I'm thinking Melissandre is at CB to give Davos an opportunity for revenge or red herring, but don't know obviously. I'm not sure how the Watch will view her, nor how will the Wildlings. Of course Davos and her came in with Stannis and they saved the Watch so there should be some gratitude.

One thing Thorne did with killing Jon is take away a control point on the Wildlings. ie, without Jon the Watch is under more threat from the Wildlings. Very short sighted of the brothers. Again, I don't hold them in high regard anymore.


Mike V. said...

Okay I'll put a spoiler warning on this one, but it has more info on Azor Ahai prophecy among other things speculating we'll see Jon return. There was a cut plot around Lady Stonehart that you might have heard of MJ that the author still wants to happen so she speaks to it. Also other theories around Tyrion that she doesn't get into but would explain why she thinks something about Tyrion in the article.

The author is someone that I listen to frequently on my Cast of Kings and Storm of Spoilers podcasts I listen to lol

******Potential Spoilers but mostly speculation based on years of theorizing*****

Anonymous said...

Just thinking about the chess pieces left in westeros if you will an inventory for consideration.

1. Boltons
2. Aeryns
3. Petyr
4. Lannisters(Jamie and Cersei)
5. High Sparrow/faith militant
6. Martells
7. Greyjoys
8. Wildlings
9. Nights Watch--VERY weak though
10. Freys
11. Brothers without Borders
12. Night King/Wights
13. Children of the Forest
14. Brienne/Pod
15. Bronn
16. Robert Strong.
17. Cersei's groupies
18. Kings Guards
19. Kevan Lannister
20, Sam and Maesters
21. Davos
22. Melissandre
23. Sansa
24. Theon

What do you think about those? More, less, different??


Mike V. said...

I tried to google D&D being misleading and can't find the examples. But I've heard it before with an example. lol That article I just saw had a link that Kit has already been seen filming in Belfast. Maybe his movie he's working on will film in that area to cover up if he's actually working on thrones. I'll have to click on the link. lol

The article I referenced also discusses the potential of Night's King raising Jon too. (if that's what you had in mind) It goes through all of the theories. could be right with Davos and Mel. Davos had some good stories in ADWD that were totally cut out too. I barely remember what they were but I'm guessing he won't be doing them now. Yeah...I definitely am not thrilled with anyone left at the Wall if Jon stays dead. Maybe Dolores Edd who was mysteriously missing with all of this. Sam called him out in their talk at the beginning of the episode. He was still Jon's friend and maybe he could take a bigger role.

Yep...pretty short sighted. Tormund may not be happy with their decision. Just have no clue where things are going to go. We're finally like the rest of the TV audience!! lol (that is..unless that book comes out beforehand!)

Mike V. said...

Every time i post something you have another post up...hopefully my stuff isn't getting lost in the mix! lol Here's my comment to your #s.

2. I have no idea what that is meant to say!
4. Tommen too, okay not really
11. Banners not borders! lol
25. The Hound - presumed dead but never seen die.
26. Gendry
27. The Tullys (blackfish and edmure)
28. Tyrells

Anonymous said...

2, sorry I meant Arryns

Thanks for the others. Yea, I want to consider how these can work together

and of course there could be
29, Azor Ahaie, ie all.


Anonymous said...

good links. I like to read them all.

LOL on Kit being seen filming in Ireland. Like GOT is the only production there. I mean even Vikings is there--lol. Things like this takes away cred from those grasping at straws to keep Jon alive--lol.

The Nights King was one of my first considerations for resurrection given a possible Ice and Fire theme with Jon and Dany.

Fans have been waiting 4 years so far on Jon's return so another year won't be awful. But, I think it's Certainly not going to be Jon Snow and if he doesn't come back I hope that the fans don't leave.


Mike V. said...

2. Ahh duh. So Robin? He's all that's left...but there is a whole military presence in the Vale.

29 right.

Fans won't leave regardless. the ratings steadily go up every year. At this point people are probably committed to the end. I can't even imagine book fans jumping ship because it's getting too different are going to leave in masses...enough to be able to tell in the ratings. Now...if the show went on for 10 or 12 seasons...yeah I could see the numbers eventually dropping. Hence why the producers don't want to milk the show forever. They just want to get to the end game.
It's crazy though...with all of the changes this year, it still stayed pretty true to the books. So, it'll be interesting to see what the first season with no book material will look like. (of course, they can draw from the chapters he already released like Arya's Mercy chapter..which was awesome. But I kinda feel they already did a bit with this last episode.)

Anonymous said...

How about Robin's relatives, aren't they Arryn's too? Definitely the Vale forces, but don't they have control over them and theirs as being one?


Anonymous said...

I haven't read all of this, but the first couple of paragraphs are really on point.


Mike V. said...

Yeah littlefinger's plans don't go too well for him in hindsight. lol Still he has his toe in many waters so I'm sure he'll bounce back.

I read the whole article...definitely lots of revenge going on.

Anonymous said...

Interesting thoughts on the ep


Anonymous said...

OK, so I'm going to review what storylines we know of as an aid to figure stuff out:
1. Tommen should die due to prophecy of Cersei
2. Martells/Lannisters will have a fight due to Myrcella's murder
3. Theon/Sansa are escaping, could pull in other Greyjoy's
4. Bravos Bank Tyrell's money, Lannister's broke.
5. Margery being jailed.
6. CB vs Wights
7. Petyr and whatever he's up to.
8. ???? on Bolton's to do--they are Lannister allies re#2 above.
9. ???? on Brothers w/o Banners
10 ??? on Bran, Rickon
11. Night King marching on the South
12. Winter is here.
13. Faith militant(high sparrow) vs Cersei, et all.
14. What's up with Jon now.

1. Arya's story, which I have no idea how it will come in line with Ice and Fire
2. Dany's Dothraki and Mereen activities.
3. Dragon's growing
4. Stonemen
5. Jorah and his greyscale.
7. Tyrion and Varys in Mereen
8. Sons of the Harpy
10 Bank of Bravos
11. Faceless men/Jaqen

I haven't included every story, but one's I could recall that could have larger implications.

YOu guys please add.


Anonymous said...

OK, so you can tell I've been thinking too much--lol.

So, I forgot Thoros was a priest for Rh'lor and that supports the lord of light as being a real deal in resurrections. AND that also shows Melissandre as being not such a good priestess since she has failed so badly with a powerful god.

So, MAYBEE Melissandre will be trying to get her stuff together and use Jon's body as a way to become a real or better priestess? And I'm SLIGHTLY warming to the idea that his body won't be resurrected for a while.

Another thing I recall with Thoros was the longer you wait before resurrection the more change the dead body has which will be included in whatever is resurrected. IE, decay, etc. So, when I think of JOn he became white and cold, ie icy. So, IF he is resurrected he will surely be effected by the ice and snow he was lying in and the loss of blood. So, they can't wait too long to resurrect him, unless they wait until he's totally frozen??


Mike V. said...

So you realize that's pretty much what i've been saying when comparing Thoros and Melissandre right??? lol I'll respond more in a little bit when I get a chance.

I was listening to my weekly podcast again...forgot they also do a video version of it on Youtube. Just watch/listen to the first 5 minutes for a great explanation of why Kit harrington will return. It's pretty much what I've been saying it too...but they say it so eloquently lol I'll be listening to the rest of this podcast on my way home as well as Cast of Kings eventually

Mike V. said...

Okay, so I wasn't saying ALL of that with your theory...which is interesting! But yes Thoros is a Red Priest. but he was a Red Priest that lost faith and drunkenly prayed to the Lord of Light to save Beric the first time...and it worked. You could say the same about Melissandre right now...that she's lost faith. This is the TV the book she gave up on Stannis much earlier in favor of grooming Jon Snow. But in the books she also has never claimed to have never raised anyone from the dead. Thoros and Melissandre never met in the books. But since they have in the TV show it seems like they could be twisting that plot around.

There is another character that was never raised from the dead in the show that Beric set the precedent for. So maybe it was meant to set a precendent for a bigger payoff with Jon Snow. On TV you don't want to lose the stakes of death by being able to raise anyone or it's not as impactful. I'm starting to understand why LS was never introduced! lol

Another interesting thing that came up on the podcast that I didn't consider (and I don't think they did just reminded me of it) They mentioned how Cersei has confessed to sleeping with Lancel and she did her walk of atonement in a very public forum. Jaime has been on record saying he has never been with anyone else other than Cersei. In the books...Tyrion is the one to rat Cersei out to Jaime right before he goes to kill Tywin. (there was much more to that final meeting in the books) But here...maybe Jaime is just going to find out when he returns...and it'll be interesting to see how that plays into their relationship. He's already a changed man as we've learned from this poorly played Dorne storyline. He got to feel what it felt like to be a father for like 30 seconds. But, once he gets the blow about Cersei (and she'll be pissed at him anyway for letting Myrcella die)..things could get heated! Speaking of Tyrion...I'm not sure if we discussed this but I read somewhere that this death of Myrcella will fuel Cersei's hatred for Tyrion even further because he's the one that sent Myrcella to Dorne. Crazy stuff.

Mike V. said...

Missed your scenarios

1. Yeah maybe on Tommen. Myrcella is still alive in the books so who knows? But yeah..if anyone else is going to take the throne we assume he has to be killed. Or at least removed from power.

2. Yep..probably. Or Cersei will send Reborn Mountain (won't say his name until it's revealed even if you have!) to finish Jaime's job. lol

3. Yeah...I have no idea where that one is going..but it would make sense for Theon to reach out to his family at least Asha/Yara (book/show)

4. Braavos banked Stannis too. But now Mace is there...not sure where they'll go with that.

5. Still jailed...I forget her status in the books. Loras is jailed too...and MIA in the books after raiding Dragonstone

6. WESTEROS vs. Wights. (same podcast i listened to predicted the next announcement they make will be an END GAME plan...and they just assume HBO and D/D will concede to 8 seasons and done)

7. yep

8, 9 - agreed questions.

10. Bran...I assume they'll skip right past the last chapter of his that was in the books when he talked with the tree guy and he'll just be already trained for his next step whatever it is. (That's kind of what D&D hinted at at skipping Jedi training and going straight to being a Jedi. I sorta liked the Jedi Training in Empire! lol) Rickon - yeah he certainly will have a role to play eventually. I still think he may be the last one standing and eventual Lord of Winterfell. lol That would kinda be sad if ALL other Starks die by the end though. Even if Arya and Sansa survived, I would think Rickon would still be lord. And Bran...that dude ain't leaving that tree I wouldn't think. lol

11. yep

12. Well it is in the books...but we saw snow melting in the show. Like I said..i wonder if it's a TV budget thing and making it snow in King's Landing might be expensive. They're going to have to do it eventually! The damn show/books is built around Winter Coming! lol

13. Faith Militant in power in King's Landing. Yep...might take more than Cersei to remove them from power.

14. Well I don't know but I've upped my percentage from 51 to 65%!


1. Arya is on her own crusade of revenge. How it lines up with the overall battle? I don't know either. I've just always pictured Arya, Jon, Dany, Jaime, Tyrion, Sansa eventually on the same side fighting for the same cause. But that could be my own little fan fiction! :)

3. Yep...eventually Dany has to return for her other dragons right? Or maybe they're destined for other riders. lol Maybe Melissandre will bring Jon's body East towards Asshai (that's far East)...I'm really getting fan-fictiony now! lol
4. yep

5. yeah...totally ignored the rest of this season besides a reminder that he had it in episode 8. Then again...they haven't done much with the other dude that has it in the books yet either.

7. (you skipped 6 so i will too!) yep

8. Yeah...i guess that's who tyrion will be dealing with.

10. (skipped 9)'re double dipping on this one with mentioning it in westeros too.

11. yep

## Sam at the Citadel....and keeping his relationship under wraps with Gilly.
I'm sure there's more but have a 10:00 meeting!

MJ said...

Geez - 51 comments. LOL Still swamped at work and no time to read them. Came across this in an article yesterday. Listed 3 reasons Jon could be alive. This was the third.

Jon is reborn because he’s Azor Ahai, aka the Prince Who Was Promised

OK, this one gets pretty far into the nerdy weeds of things. But basically, there’s this prophecy that has been mentioned sporadically in the show

and all the time in the books, about The Lord’s Chosen or The Prince Who Was Promised or Azor Ahai. Basically he’s the one who’s going to save

everybody in the end (presumably from all those White Walkers).

The thing about this guy is that he has to fit a bunch of specific qualifications — he must be the blood of the dragon, born when there’s a bleeding

star in the sky among smoke and salt — and fans have been looking for someone who fits the bill ever since it was first mentioned. A lot of people

might qualify, from Dany to Davos to one of Theon’s random uncles (Melisandre thinks it’s Stannis but we all know that child-murderer is nobody’s

savior), but with this assassination, Jon now seems to fit the bill. It’s caused by the death of a knight with a star sigil (the bleeding star), one of his

attackers is crying (the salt), and when he’s stabbed, his wounds steam in the cold (the smoke). (If you’re looking for the blood of the dragon that’s

a whole other fan theory.) Since Melisandre decided to ditch Stannis and head back up to the Wall, she may be the prime candidate to resurrect

Jon — the way the Red Preist Thoros of Myr resurrected Beric Dondarrion back in Season 2 — and get this whole prophecy thing going.

These theories are all well and good, but as much as fans like to theorize, there’s also the possibility that Jon might actually be dead, which would

just be the worst news ever. There’s also the possibility that the show and the books could seriously diverge on this major plot point, and as far as

I’m concerned, until George R.R. Martin tells me Jon’s dead, I’m going to sleep soundly convinced that he’s alive. Because if Jon’s gone, who’s left

to root for among these sorry characters? Who is going to save everyone? And what’s going to happen when all those White Walkers show up at

the Wall? Are the mutinous Night’s Watch brothers just going to wish them away? Game of Thrones needs Jon Snow, and so do the rest of us.

I know lots of peeps think that Jon is part Targaeryn so.....

Anonymous said...

Welcome to the deep end--lol.


Mike V. said...


Yep...that article you referenced pretty much sums up the 51 comments where we've been debating said nerdy stuff! And of course, even the last comment you made too. I mean, it's more than just some fans thinking it. It has to be the biggest non-secret theory in the Song of Ice and Fire. And if it's not true, fans will be CRUSHED. lol All of the clues pretty much line up leaving little doubt that it is the case. As for Azor Ahai, well yeah that could be a bunch of people. A link above that I referenced gave a good explanation of how it might be 3 people and not just 1. (i.e. the 3 heads of a dragon) But that gets into other theories from the books of who else might be a secret Targaryan, not just Jon. Again, just people theorizing based on lines here and there in the books.


Obviously being caught up to the material has me hungrier for Winds of Winter to be released! I did some digging and found this "complete resource" of all updates on the novel that George or his editor or others have given on it. Probably a little more spoilery than people would care for so I give that warning!! *******SPOILERS OF FUTURE BOOK:*******

I'll note I have not read all of the released chapters. Definitely read Mercy and I think a Ser barristan chapter (who is now dead in the show). I may consider trying to find the other ones. lol

Anonymous said...

On the link. How does that guy from Grantland say that there is just SOO much more material yet to cover with ANY credibility. Seriously, the books aren't done yet. Supposedly two books left and so with one each season that's 2 more for 7 seasons. He makes statements that sound like fact when he has NO real knowledge, just suspicion.

I could see them wrapping this up in 1 season if they wanted. I mean all the Westeros/Essos political stories aren't necessary really. And like this year, the Dorne stuff was weak and I thought the Stannis stuff was drawn out and seriously the Mereen stuff is way drawn out.

I don't want it to go to 8 seasons without good cause strictly based on the story, NOT money.

Guys like him just make me laugh as they act all knowing and important yet they're just fluff.

MJ, Yea Jon and Targeryan blood. I've got to watch the ending again and look for smoking blood as referenced from the youtube.


Mike V. said...

***BOOK TALK with maybe Season 6 implication****

Ugh...i just remembered and looked the books Theon and "Fake Arya/Jeyne Poole" actually make it to Stannis in a way of speaking. And Asha is a captive in Stannis's army too. So since Stannis and crew are gone...maybe Theon indeed will meet up with Yara with Sansa in tow.

Mike V. said...

Grantland Podcast: The TV show is its own entity at this point. He hasn't read one chapter of one book. He's speaking purely from a TV perspective. Wrapping up storylines. From his professional perspective, he doesn't think they can satisfyingly wrap up everything they've introduced on the TV show in 20 episodes. But more than's just business. D&D are drawing the hard line at 7...but HBO wants 7 or 8. They'll negotiate...and probably figure out a way to make it happen.

They're not drawing from 2 books for 2 seasons anymore. They're drawing from whatever GRRM told them and whatever stories they've made up themselves. No there's no knowledge at all. I just thought it made sense and have kinda assumed that would happen anyway. It's just how TV negotiations work. Look at LOST.....Damon and Carlton wanted 2 more 24 episode seasons and ended up with 3 shorter seasons after negotiations. Breaking bad ended up with Season 5 part 1, season 5 part 2. Sopranos ended up with Season 5 part 1 and season 5 part 2. Mad Men ended up with season 7 part 1 and season 7 part 2. Enough precendent for highly successful shows coming up wih and end game plan. (I think even BSG did something similar)

D&D won't do an 8th season if they don't think they have enough story to make it work.

Andy Greenwald is a pretty well respected TV critic. He's not just fluff. Granted, I don't always agree with his opinions on thing because he's overly critical about pretty much everything,'s his job. Yes he's guessing. But it's a professional opinion.

Anonymous said...

LOL, professional opinion. I've paid very high paid professionals in my life and with my businesses. He's not what I call top shelf, say from a Price Waterhouse, Morgan Stanley, etc.

But, that's OK, it's just a show and he's found a way to make a living and I respect a guy carving out a niche.

Yea and I hate that dividing up the last season stuff to drag it out. I haven't looked at the numbers, but with HBO vs say AMC I don't know if it makes sense given one doesn't have ad revenue and the other does. Obviously GoT helps sell subscriptions.


Mike V. said...

Price Waterhouse, Morgan Stanley do not get paid to be TV critics...your analogy makes no sense! He is a professional TV critic. He is paid to know, critique and discuss TV. He doesn't claim to be a neurosurgeon or lawyer. But in his field of work, he is a professional. Have you even read any of his stuff or are you basing your opinion on listening to 10 minutes of a silly podcast he does with his friend he grew up with in Philadelphia? (also a critic for Grantland. That's another thing...they're from where I've lived my whole life so there's a tie there. lol)

Of course he's found a way to make a living. He was a music critic for Spin Magazine and then Bill Simmons hired him to be a TV critic for Grantland. He does way more than just discuss Game of Thrones for a living. He's doing the job I'd rather be doing! lol

I'm not even sure why I'm defending this guy just because you don't want to agree with him. I will say that later on in the podcast he talks to another Grantland guy who they call the Grand Maester because he has read the books and has a lot of book knowledge. And it was based on that conversation he had with him that they're convinced without a doubt that Jon will be back. (basically what I wanted you to listen to was how even off screen "the show continues"...i.e. kit harrington had to ACT in his interview in order to sustain the shocking ending of the show. There was really no other way to handle it) I haven't listened to it yet, but as always I will look forward to doing that. Not because I'll always agree with them, but because it's an entertaining listen! lol

Well...with AMC they didn't ADD episodes...they just split seasons. Sopranos season 5 was 2 10 episode halves when they usually did 13 episodes. They may as well just call them seasons 7 and 8 with GoT if they did it that way. I think D&D and writers will break the stories they want to tell before the end of the series and determine what makes the most sense. I also think it makes sense that the next announcement they make will indicate the end game for the show. (i.e. when the show will end.)

Mike V. said...

GoT Finale ratings very good:

This doesn't include illegal downloads, and HBO Go/Now streaming of course.

Anonymous said...

Wow, you are defensive for a random kind of guy that not many know. I can poke holes in his criticisms very easily as could you. SEriously, you under estimate yourself all the time vs these "professionals". He's got a good voice and can form good sentences with a decent vocabulary. Those 3 things are really important to communicate well and convince people you're intelligent and helps dramatically in swaying an audience.

There have been studies that show vocabulary and sentence structure are used a lot in evaluating a persons intelligence. Heck, actors know this. It does NOT however serve as the best indicator of intelligence or understanding.

He values his own opinions and assumptions too much to be a professional that costs a lot of money, imo--whether PWC, MS, etc. Professionals that are truly valuable are able to give you both sides of the coin so to speak as they have the intellect to understand the various inputs and considerations.

I think you can offer a much more reasoned arguement.


Mike V. said...

I think you'd be surprised how many people read Grantland and listen to these podcasts. Bill Simmons, now fired from ESPN, has a pretty huge following and was able to gain huge traction with the Grantland site through his popularity and from compiling a bunch of great writers to contribute to his site. As far as little known random guy let me do a comparison for you here. James Hibberd has 30,000 followers on Twitter. Greendwald has over 50,000. Even crazier Jeff Jensen only has 28,000 followers. That's not really that many in the scheme of things...but you know James Hibberd, you don't know Andy. He's right up there with the people we're always talking about (even slightly more popular). They're all in the same network of critics though. On twitter they're always referring to each other's work. So just because you haven't heard of him doesn't mean he's not that well known. Regardless, it's all much more than my 624 followers! :-) (I had reached 815 by right about after the LOST finale) And no this isn't a popularity contest and it's not really my point.

I do not underestimate myself. I was sharing information from a source that I find entertaining and sometimes credible. In this particular case, I agreed with what they were saying or at least thought it was interesting to ponder. But, I didn't see it as an opportunity to randomly bash the guy. Other times, I do bash them when I wholeheartedly disagree with them.

Do people really need studies to understand that vocabulary, sentence structure and communicating well reflect intelligence? I think that's pretty obvious, especially at my place of employment! lol

I've listened to these guys dissect Game of Thrones for years as well as many other Television, Movies, music and novels over the years. No, I don't listen to them for their expertise on a Song of Ice and Fire. It is fun to listen to 2 TV only guys debate the show from a TV perspective though. You're basing your opinion off of him/them from listening this one time (or maybe a handful of times that I've shared a link) and not factoring in the years of experience he's had reviewing whatever he has. He has come off intelligent when interviewing various actors and showrunners over the years in the questions he's asked and the understanding of the television process that he portrays. But I wasn't even discussing his intelligence anyway.

None of this has anything to do with how I do estimate or underestimate myself. I'm perfectly content with my opinions. But, I also like to share other opinions and commentary. Like I said, I haven't even listened to the whole podcast yet but I liked how he summed up the Jon Snow stuff. He could be absolutely wrong, but I agreed with the angle he took it from. As for 7 or 8's an educated guess on his part. And it's not going out on a limb either as it has been discussed by HBO too.

Mike V. said...

"Do people really need studies to understand that vocabulary, sentence structure and communicating well reflect intelligence? I think that's pretty obvious, especially at my place of employment! lol "

I meant to imply that I agree it doesn't always mean that person is intelligent which his also true in my personal experience!

Anonymous said...

I should say in that last sentence above, you could probably do a better job than him through being more reasoned. You have the passion for it.

BTW, I had a thought that they might make the "last season" a two parter with say 7 each. The problem is that 5 eps don't make a compelling season atleast not enough to get people to subscribe.

I think Sansa/Theon will have a good chance of running into Brienne/Pod. We may have a few close calls where they could touch each other but miss each other like last season though--lol. And I think that heading toward the "safety" of the Iron Islands makes some sense. They won't be heading North probably due to the winter. So, they could go East, West or South. They won't go South due to Frey's/Lannisters. Sansa just left the East so that kind of leaves the West.

***8book talk*********

Yea, lots of people are dead now that are not dead in the books. GRRM said that was going to be the case. But, that the ending won't really be effected overall. He really likes his elaborate world and I sense that he doesn't want to let it go so quickly.


Anonymous said...

50,000 followers. See I don't view that as a big deal. I think about how MSNBC and some of their lower rated shows may get 50K to 100K people and laugh. I guess that 50K is better than I thought-lol. To me, it's not a lot of cred. I tend to think much bigger numbers. That's partly due to being involved in elections and having ad agencies buying slots for a variety of businesses.

He could be wrong or right, one of my points is that his opinions didn't seem to me to be justified. He didn't even try to justify them or back them up really. I listened to the front end and back end and certainly could have caught a bad sample of his work. I also found him kind of conceited in a way. But,it really doesn't matter to me.

I enjoyed the guy who was sort of doing the interviewing and yes there were nuggets so the link is appreciated. I hadn't intended on making such a big deal over this guy.

I'm only taking this time really, to sort of in a way let you know how much I appreciate what you do.


Mike V. said...

I get it and I appreciate the compliment. lol

Yeah even 2 7 episode halves would kinda suck as I agree even 10 episode seasons already seem so short (though to be clear, I understand why it can only be 10!). The only positive I could see is that with 7 episode seasons they could have the same budget as a 10 episode season, but use the additional time and money for even bigger effects. And we could have 7 really amazing episodes per year. That might be something I could get on board with. I'm sure they'll figure out something!

If Sansa has some actual things to accomplish in the Vale (Since that's where she is in the books) there is a chance she could always go back there. Littlefinger is a big wildcard too since he's still with Sansa in the Vale in the books. But yeah...possibly the Iron Islands could be interesting.

****BOOK TALK****

Yeah GRRM speaks to the butterfly effect of small changes becoming bigger changes. But yeah, they're both heading to the same place. I'm highly optimistic that he'll get that 6th book done in time for season 6. But at some point, the show will tell the (a version of the) end before he does. There's just no way to avoid that.

Mike V. said...

TV book club

Anonymous said...

Interesting article from ew. You know one thing that occurs to me about the complaining of violent and sexual acts to women is--Reek's torture. I don't think anyone except maybe Shireen has gone through as much pain. Certainly his lasted a lot longer.

I continue to warm to the idea of Jon coming back a little ICY--lol.


Mike V. said...

I'm pretty much at 75% on Jon coming back now. I finished listening to the Watch The Thrones Podcast with Grantland where Andy and Jason (the maester) walked through point by point why it makes no sense in the book OR the TV show for Jon to be gone. If you just listened to that opening portion of the podcast, you missed out on some good discussion and made some pretty rough assumptions about who you were listening to! lol (That youtube video was sliced into various parts..the link I gave was just part 1) The podcast was maybe 1.5 hours.

I've made the same points too, but hearing them discuss them as well just lets me know I'm not hanging on the ledge by myself!

I'm onto my Clash of Kings podcast which I think is 2 hours. Lots of commute time to listen to it. lol One of the podcasters on this writes for Vanity Fair and actually put together a decent article talking about where we are caught up to the books and where we aren't.
(maybe some mild spoilers, but mostly just explaining where we are and potenitally where we might go)

MJ said...

We're up to 69 ?!? LOL I am def going to try to read them today.

This is starting to remind me of Lost post numbers. LOL

Mike V. said...

Yeah, but with LOST it wasn't just the 3 of us talking! (well in this case, mostly Richard and I LOL)

Enjoy the read!

Anonymous said...

This article has a LOT of truths to it. Many points are made which I believe are true but have not pointed out due to not wanting to be too negative. I have said MANY times that the show spends too much time on junk and not enough on stuff that is important. This guy provides examples. I just don't want to take the time to point them out over and over. And yes there was a lot of logic missing in the ep

lFor example, Ramsay not looking for Stannis was something I was yelling at the screen about. Just didn't make sense at all.


Mike V. said...

I stopped reading when he said Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is a superior product. Come on, even you can't agree with that, even if it's just referring to season 5. Funny, this guy just comes off as a bitter book fanboy who is opposing the adaptation and you're totally on board with it! Even though you're saying that people who don't discuss BOTH SIDES of the coin are irrelevant! (paraphrasing) lol

Anyway...I see the points in his discussion that you support. The endless brutality of women/girls for different motivations.

But come on...Beniof and Weiss have done the unthinkable and have put together a pretty amazing adaptation of this book series. Certainly, it has its flaws but I can't even imagine the undertaking of determining what to focus on in what scene, in which country on what set that we have built or have to build with what budget, etc..... Yeah...they rushed through the Dorne plot, but there's probably a reason they included them. I read somewhere they wanted to scrap Dorne all together, but kept it in.

I called out the Star Wars reference myself but didn't see it as lazy. And Dany and the Dothraki (as Indians)???? IT'S IN THE BOOK!!!!!! Sure it didn't happen exactly like that, but it's why they included it at all.

I dunno...there's some things I agreed with in the article. (Stannis story? Definitely rushed in that finale episode...but it was so they could cover other stuff as well. Ramsay not looking for Stannis? Yeah a plot contrivance, but for all we know Brienne was watching the battle unfold on that hill where Pod was watching and tracked Stannis the whole time (for her "miracuously" finding him). Abandoning her oath to save Sansa? yeah...that part is kind of weird.

Anyway, thanks for sharing. I get the points but that dude needs to get out of the bitter barn and just enjoy the show for what it is! Granted, he implied he's not going to watch anymore. Well that's great! So I don't have to read his whining again! :)

Mike V. said...

One thing that came up in the podcasts that we've previously discussed in "Spoiler Areas" is the concept of IF Jon Comes back he won't have to be part of the Night's Watch anymore. Since "now his watch has ended". So regardless we should get a 999th Lord Commander and it'll probably be Alliser Thorne on the show. Not sure about the books.

But then Jon will be free to move on and do whatever he needs to do.

*****POTENTIAL BOOK 6 SPOILERS/Hints from GRRM of things to come**********

In one of those articles of TWOW info that has come out apparently George has said book 6 may focus on Robb's Will and Jon's Legitamacy. Not sure if you know/remember, but Robb had updated his will to legitimize Jon Snow and make him Lord of Winterfell if anything should happen to him. Of course there are also theories that Jeyne Westerling (his wife in the books) might be secretly pregnant with Robb's heir as well.

Anonymous said...

LOL on TOTH article. Yea, I kind of knew you would find it overboard. I did too. BUT he makes many good points. And if they're not identified as such then I'm not doing a good job of evaluating.

I think it's a fair point that this was a weak season comparatively. Weakest?, I don't know?

The 1/2 ep return of Melissandre, etc. WE could go on and on but I won't. D&W need to know that they are failing in some areas if they are to fix them. I hired people specifically because they included a different perspective than mine to help me run things properly.


Mike V. said...

TOTH Article - no there were good points, just over the top like you said. lol

Weak season based on weaker material. Obviously the best material was in book 3 and we passed that last season. I think they made the right call combining the 2 books into 1 season and just skip the filler. So what we got were a bunch of highlights linked together by some convenient and sometimes painful to watch plot devices. I enjoyed the episodes for the most part though. And there's no denying that Hardhome was a fantastic episode!

The Melissandre thing...I know we've joked about it..but they're dealing with 10 episodes where things need to happen in certain places. There had to be enough time for a raven to reach Jon after that battle...and Melissandre was already enroute to the Wall. It's not a terribly long trip to the Wall from Winterfell where it's inconveivable. I think Tyrion was back at Winterfell after leaving the wall in season 1 in an episode. I think people travel more quickly when it's 1 or a few too.

Anonymous said...

Show Spoilers

The guy from the Vale is coming back next season. He was the one questioning Petyr and took in Robin.


Mike V. said...

Show Spoilers (mild)

Hmm...well maybe that means Sansa and Theon will go to the Vale. Or maybe Littlefinger will return there.

Mike V. said...

Listening to my storm of spoilers podcast now. Richard you should listen to the first 10-15 minutes. They have a theory that hibberd's silence was bought by the wining and dining 10 day cross country tour of the sets he did during the filming of season 5. It sounds pretty credible with the details they provide. Granted hibberd did kinda comment in his recap that he might not believe Dan and kit either lol

Also speaking of hibberd the body double speaks out from cercei's walk!

Also I'm really starting to really believe winds of winter will be out before next season the more I read and listen to this stuff. Like the producers clearly gave grrm first shot at revealing what's next without going too far. Only exception being stannis. Definitely interesting to ponder and discuss at the least. Lol

MJ said...

Ok - finally caught up from yesterday wehre is said 69 ! LOl Don't know why I'm bothering to comment to your stuff from 4 days ago.

Battle for the Throne - I guess we don't really know the rules for attaining the throne and as a show watcher only I never saw that the Lannisters or Martells were in line at all. Definitely never thought that the Greyjoys were either. So I guess if there is no one in the bloodline to pass it to it could go to any noble house ? Let's face it - the rules are all made up by Martin so it could be anything. LOL

The show has left alot of characters by the wayside. Theon's father and sister - we have no idea what is going on with them. Rockon 2 years ago was off to stay with Stark friends along with Osha and Hodor. Where is the last remaining Baratheon Bastard ? Guess Margaery and her brother (name eluding me at the moment) are still in jail. I'm sure many more that I'm not even thinking about.

Jon - I know if the wanted to surprise us they all would be denying that he is coming back of course. For me - Having him warg into Ghost does not excite me. Since the body is dead it's not like we'd still have Jon Snow walking around. Him becoming a 'good' wight - maybe. After reading about this Ahori character - might work as well - but he wouldn't be Jon Snow then but another person. And you are probably right - Melisandre at CB rather then going south away from what is coming has to mean something. Eww - just read Richards comment - I'd love to see Davos take out the faux priestess Melisandre. LOL

Melisandre - Don't know that she is a failure so much as a fraud. With the exception of the smoke monster she has done nothing. She admitted to Stannis's wife that most of it is smoke and mirrors - a show to get people to believe. So IF she really can hear her god then he let her down, or she can't hear him at all and ruined Stannis's chances by making him do all this crazy stuff.

Didn't some 'bad guy' warg into a bird and fly over head looking for someone - maybe with the wildings ? So Bran then is not the only one to be shown with those abilities.

Dang Richard - you are harsh with all this 'loser' stuff. LOL I didn't feel Jon was like aloser at all. I think the directors knew exactly how they wanted him to die and it was carefully orchestrated to make all the fans go NUTS on whether he will be back. People are examining every aspect of that death - his eyes, they way the blood pooled. And Jon has had pretty much no time whatsoever to establish himself as the Lord Commander. When did he have the time to earn the men's respect ? He didn't. But I respect that he went out and did what he knew was right and necessary - knowing no one would thank him for it. To me that is courageous. As for the sand snakes - they were given practically nothing to do and some very cheesy lines. I don't blame the actresses on how uninteresting they were.

MJ said...

I hope we don't get a new book before the next season - I think it will be better overall if now no one knows what is coming. Tired of all the web whining about the changes.

Are we not doing the Book Spoilers thing any more ? I don't know who 'Night King' is.

I have no recollection of Melisandre saying she thought Stannis was Azor Ahai or a Prince to be returned. All I can recall is her saying he is a Baratheon and so has Royal blood. What I find interesting is that Melisandr believed the Lord of Light told her Stannis was to be King. I keep reading that Melisandre has been proven 'wrong'. Seems to me that either she lied about the Lord telling her that or that all of her shenanigans and sacrifices she made Stannis do changed the course of what should happen. Personally - I don't think te big guy upstairs tells her anything. LOL I think she found a guy with Royal blood and she was going to push him to get to the throne so she would have power.

Dany - I had figured that at some point people have to stop all their squabbling and all work together to survive what is coming. I thought we'd seen the start of it with Jon bringing in the free folk and the wilding saying they will fight with the people south of the wall, I'm guessing that even though Jon is gone the alliance will have to hold and that Dany will eventually join to help. Not sure as a savior though - but if she doesn't come until later in the battle she could be viewed as a savior.

Fans - if they are dumb enough to leave the show cause they killed off a fan fave - a show that regularly kills off main characters - then they are idiots. LOL Just saying.

BSG - def split the final season

You two are cracing me up with the arguing over some guy on a podcast. Too funny.

If Jon Snow isn't who he was then for me it won't be Jon Snow coming back.

Mike V. said...

Glad you caught up MJ! lol I'm going to respond as I read so I may pick and choose what to respond to!

Battle for the Throne - Well...there was the war of 5 kings starting at the end of season 1: Joffrey, Robb Stark, Renly Baratheon, Stannis Baratheon and Balon Greyjoy. The Balon Greyjoy plot kinda dropped off of the face of the earth, but may come back next season. So I can't confirm from a book perspective but in a TV show perspective it appears Balon won the War of 5 Kings by default. lol But there really are no lines of's just who can overpower whom and then who can hold onto it the longest. Yes if your house is holding the throne then there are lines of succession through your family. This is technically the wheel Dany wants to break at least in the TV show.

Rickon and Osha are still missing in the books ever since they parted ways with Bran. Bran, Hodor and Meera caught up to the books last season so they were waiting to reveal more NEXT season. We haven't seen Gendry in the books since Arya left him...they gave Gentry a different plot in the show to cover for another baratheon bastard that wasn't in the show (Edric Storm). So, a lot of them are defensible. There definitely is a Greyjoy plot that was axed this season and it seems like it may come back into play NEXT season.

Jon - Yep...your guess is as good as ours. We've just been debating it for a few years longer! LOL But, I'm pretty certain Kit Harrington will be back. Or else a lot of the fandom is going to look like idiots. (and TV critics lol)

Melissandre - Well...the winter storm DID stop. That might have been a result of her blood magic. In the books the storm called off the fight (at least in book 5). I really think they put that Thoros meeting Melissandre scene into the books for a reason. But we shall see!

Yep...Orell (i.e. the dude from Pirates of the Caribbean and British Office) warned into a bird. Bran is definitely not the only one with the abilities. The other thing explained in book 5 is that if your body is killed while warging...your consciousness continues on in that creature. That seemed to happen when Jon killed Orell in the show. (i may have that name totally wrong lol) But yeah..all of the Stark kids have had "wolf dreams" where they are in their wolves....they just didn't realize they were warging....not all of the kids...but Jon, Arya and Bran at least. (Not sure if that's a spoiler or not...but I don't think we'll be seeing Nymeria again. Arya's wolf. She did show up in a key scene in A Storm of Swords book 3...but it seems like that plot has been taken out..and it might be to put extra payoff to a Jon snow return scene)

Mike V. said...

Jon vs. Sand snakes...agreed. It's not the actress's faults. lol

I know you would hope book 6 doesn't come out MJ...but I certainly do. In either case I think the show will be different because I seriously doubt they're reading the book. Just going off of GRRM's notes or things he told them. But, I still thing GRRM has a right to reveal some key plot points before the show does. And I think that's his goal. Plus...optimal sales!

Book spoilers - If anything was truly a spoiler, I tried to break it out. But we are essentially caught up. You know who the Night's King is...and Benioff and Weiss have gone on record calling the head White Walker guy that. It's actually a spoiler of the books by the TV show because we still haven't met him in the books. Just heard stories about him. (I shared background on him after Hardhome in the comments)

Apparently she never said the terms Azor Ahai or Prince that was that's my bad. But she has mentioned he was chosen by the Lord of Light. It's the same concept, they just didn't use the names that are used in the books. And in the books this person goes by many different names across the world. The thing that comes across more in the books is once Melissandre gets to the wall and meets Jon Snow, her opinion of who is the chosen one clearly changes. They waited in the show to reveal that AFTER Stannis is proven not to be this chosen one. Melissandre never leaves the wall in the books. Instead she starts getting in Jon's head. One time she says she looks at the future and "all i see is snow" lol Ambiguous because it could mean Jon Snow or Stannis marching into the snow.

Dany- Yeah...we have no idea when she'll head West. And the show is going in a little bit different of a route with all of that. But eventually you have to think the dragons will be facing the walkers in a song of Ice and Fire! Unless Jon Snow himself is both Ice and Fire. (Stark/Targaryen - another reason he can't be dead forever. Too much mythology built around him)

Fans - agreed. And they say it after every major death and the ratings go up the next year. But this time...THIS TIME. It's different! We'll just have to wait and see/read!

lol on the Podcast argument. Andy made some good arguments and runs an entertaining podcast. I stand by my comments!

KIT SHALL RETURN!!!! He may not be the same as he was before he died but he shall return! :-) I believe! lol

Anonymous said...

LOL, Kit shall return. Mike, so you're ALL in on that now, are you? I thought you were about 2/3rds in? I'm about 50/50 at this point. There are 4 things making me think he'll come back:
1. The R+L=J thing that D&W talked to GRRM about to confirm they were into the series which gave him some confidence in them doing a TV show on the books.
2. Melissandre coming back(laughingly so) to CB
3. The ICE and FIRE theme, I think Jon could be the ice to Dany's fire or both ice and fire?
4. Thoros's raising the dead after questioning his position with Rhol'r---confidence crisis sort of. Could be similar to Melissandre's

The beach scene with Stannis and the sword flaming with her calling it LIghtbringer was when she talked about him being special, chosen, etc by the lord of light. Azor Ahai's sword was lightbringer. Of course those who thought the flaming sword deal was a trick, were killed by Melissandre.

MIke, why do you defend this guy Andy--lol?

LOL, I stand by my comments that Kit is a looser actor resulting in a very weak lord commander--lol. I rewatched and when Olly was stabbing him, he had these sheep dog eyes that made me want to barf. What a weakling vs Stannis was strong.

I think of Melissandre as a failure as she failed to do what she said she would do and her prophecies are wrong. She is likely a fraud too. But, if she raises what Jon is to become then we shall see something differnt. Keep in mind that the longer you're dead the more your body changes and those changes stay with you when you are rasied up.


Mike V. said...

Yep...all 4 of those things are mostly why it seems inevitable he's not done. And all of the stuff I've read/listened to since just makes a lot of sense. The fact that James Hibberd got the exclusive interviews and he was wined and dined across europe for 10 days during the season 5 filming. He could've been asked to play along. (Only thing that goes against that is in his recap where he sort of questioned the interview responses himself) Also people bringing up the fact that Kit Harrington (whether you like him or not) and the character Jon Snow are both very popular. I know you don't watch TWD, but if they killed off Darryl, there would be riots. lol ESPECIALLY if they kill Jon when he's still destined to be back in the books. They're playing the game they have to play to keep it a surprise for as long as they can. I'll happily say I was wrong if he doesn't come back...but I'm pretty convinced through my own thoughts and the collective thoughts of others. (I stress my own thoughts so you don't go on and on about how i let others sway me! lol)

Note with ICE AND FIRE -> Some people theorize that Jon Snow is BOTH Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targaryen).

Andy defense - There are times when I completely disagree with his opinions on things. I'm mainly strongly defending him because you discredited him so easily when you don't really know anything about him. I've been listening to that podcast and reading his reviews for years. So, I was just trying to establish that he is a credible source whether you agree with his opinions or not. I just happened to agree with what he (and the Ice and Fire book experts he consulted with) were coming up with.

Yeah Melissandre can still be a fraud and Jon still be resurrected. (Thoros was a fraud too until he did something) Jon also doesn't have to be Azor Ahai or the chosen one to be resurrected. Beric Dondarrion wasn't in the show (nor were other characters in the books) Regardless of what Jon's role is going forward, there is still story to tell there.

Mike V. said...

Didn't read this yet:

MJ said...

Ha - didn't even remember Baylon being involved. Def think Martin should keep his reveals for the books - that's his bread and butter. I'm kinda confused by 2 more seasons. Martin has supposedly given them info where the characters will ened up so they can do the show but obviously not going to give them too much. So how good and the final season be then ? We shall see I guess. Melisandre - just like a woman who can't make up her mind ! LOL You're the chosen, no you're the chosen. ;-D 'All I see is snow' could also point to Winter finally arriving.

I don't care if Kit comes back - I want Jon Snow ! As he was ! I did not think he was weak - he was learning to be a man and a leader. And HE should have got that throne. That's where I wanted him dang it. I thought he was going to be the hero to re-integrate the free folk and battle the walkers and win ! SIGH. That's the tale I wanted to see. But it's not like I'm gonna quit the show cause I didn't get it

EW seems to have removed the annoying sign on thing today. Guess everyone complained cause it was broken

Mike V. said...

"all i see is snow" was definitely ambiguous in the books. It could've meant Stannis running into a blizzard which he did in the books (when winter actually did arrive). But it could've been a tongue and cheek reference to Jon Snow.

Totally agree on books vs. show and it's been the debate for the past few years when it became pretty clear the show would surpass the books. I think if Martin reveals some of the big theories in this NEXT book....(i.e. Jon Snow's parentage, perhaps other similar theories of other characters, Jon's fate......I think GRRM and maybe the fandom will be happy. If it ends up with an inevitable battle of Ice vs. Fire...that could go down many different ways in show vs. book. Who is on the throne? i don't think it ever mattered. Especially with Dany in the show saying she wants to break the wheel anyway.

I think the show may go ahead with some of these reveals next it puts pressure on George to get the book out. There are some fans that jokingly (me included) have been hoping that George has written BOTH books and has just been sitting on them for the key time to release them. lol

For your theory of Jon on the throne....if that was a possible future...his DEATH actually frees him from his Night's Watch duty...."And now his watch is ended" Many assume if he does rise...the first thing he'll do is head to Winterfell (with or without a flaming sword) and take down the Boltons. Would certainly be interesting!

I noticed that with EW too. Apparently other magazine sites require you to be a subscriber to EW was following suit. I am a subscriber so it wasn't an issue....but at work it is because we have an incompatible browser and wouldn't let me log in! lol

Anonymous said...

LOL, 70 ODD hours of show. So, that's just a little vague, isn't it?


Anonymous said...

Qwipish article on Kit and his future. I'm at best 50/50 on him coming back.

They start filming in July. Let's see if someone gets the million dollar pic of him on set.

There are so many publishers that would pay big bucks for that pic that if he is on set a photo would just have to leak.

If not, well then, curtain call for Kit

MJ, you're falling for those doe eyes of his--lol.


Mike V. said...

70 odd hours -> lol I thought the same thing.

Rumors have it that Kit may have already been seen filming in Belfast prior to the airing of the season 5 finale. Some suggestions are that he may have filmed his scenes ahead of time so that they can keep the thing under wraps for longer. Obviously this is all huge "conspiracy theory" talk by hardcore fans and crazy....but with the show as big as it is, it certainly draws attention during the shooting and there could be some truth to it.

I'll check out the article when I'm home. that URL doesn't pass work standards. :-)

Anonymous said...

LOL on Kit in Belfast filming. Vikings and many other shows are being filmed in Ireland at different places right now. So, he's got to be on the set, not just in Belfast for real proof. But, hey I get it. It's promising for those who want Kit to come back. Seriously, some say he's already filmed his S6 scenes? That's kind of nuts if you think about it. I mean you make the point all the time that they hardly have time to do the 10eps in a year already. He can't do an ep by himself so it wold require other actors, just doesn't sound realistic. It's justifications like that which make me question those putting out those theories--lol.

I have to admit part of my only being 50/50 is that I really don't like the actor and so if he doesn't come back I'm good with his absence. I know many out there share that thought. How many like vs don't like Kit is not something that I believe has been scientifically determined--lol.

It will be interesting for the show if Kit doens't come back and to see how the ratings move. I can't imagine many watching the show primarily because of him. But, hey, I've been wrong before-lol.

It's not good to me that some of what I consider less able actors are still on the show whereas some of the better ones have been taken out. I don't like Ramsay's character, but the actor seems good at what he does. You know my feelings on Brienne. Dany, until recently hasn't been very good in acting(maybe she got a coach-lol). The guys who played Stannis and Selmy were great. Roz's actress was great and of course Lady Stark was amazing. It could be worse of course.


Anonymous said...

Re above post. I should have said that we dont' have scientific evidence of how many do not vs do like Kit(or similar)

But, maybe we do and I'm not aware of it.


Anonymous said...

Here's some good news for S6. I remember him from LOST

Jack Bender


Mike V. said...

Day off today. I'll catch up tomorrow. But great news on bender! He was the main director and an executive producer on the show. You knew you were in for a treat when he directed. Of course joining the well oiled machine of thrones it's tough to tell how much he'll really add to the show. We'll see!

Mike V. said...

Most people that I heard discussing if Kit "already filmed his scenes" were discussing it in the context that his presence in season 6 would be limited. Like maybe it would be a surprise at the end of the season and would sorta go in line with the careful wording Kit used like "i will not be in next season". But yes like I said it's all very conspiracy theory based.

The CHARACTER of Jon Snow is very popular in the books and the show. As for Kit's portrayal...I mean I've heard it discussed how popular he is and I know the ladies swoon over him and his hair. I've also heard interviews and seen viral videos he's done outside of Game of Thrones and he seems like a pretty awesome dude. (I want to watch the HBO Tennis Parody 7 Days in Hell with him and Andy Sandberg at some point. Heard it's hysterical) The video he did with Seth Myers was perfect. He did a Nerdist Podcast interview and came off pretty awesome. His acting on Thrones...I think it's been sufficient and even GREAT in the past 2 seasons. Season 1, 4 and 5 were good arcs for him. The stuff NORTH OF THE WALL that they filmed in Iceland/Greenland whatever....suffered I think from the very cold climate they were dealing with. Some of that stuff just didn't land well. Though, I think his stuff with Ygritte worked. There's just so much more internal thought to Jon in the books which really adds to his character. Can't fault Kit for that. Yes, some actors can reflect things with their facial expressions. Maybe he's gotta work on that but I think he does fine. And I'm still speaking in present tense! lol

The fact that you think Matthew Weiner's son is a great actor as that crazy kid on Mad Men makes me question your judgement anyway! (KIDDING!! sorta lol)

I think Emilia (Dany) is a great actress. She was even nominated for an Emmy the first season. But man that season 3 scene when she took control of the unsullied?? CHILLING! It's more her material that hasn't matched up with the skill she had. And she found a great scene partner in Dinklage and then ripped him away! lol

It's funny that you dislike a fan favorite in Brienne (and I think Gwendoline does a great job bringing the book character to life who is SUPPOSED to be awkward) and love a hated character (because she was made up by the show) in Ros/Roz. lol She didn't bother me but I wouldn't go as far as to say she was dropping jaws with her performances. lol

Obviously, the top of the acting pillar would be Charles Dance as Tywin Lannister. You're not going to get much better than that in the show. Though Dinklage is always awesome, Varys is great, I think Maisie Williams is incredible for her age and anyone's age. Lena as Cersei is fantastic. The ensemble as a whole is really good.

But opinions are subjective by nature! :)

Mike V. said...

This would be nice if Alan taylor comes back to direct in s7. Some of the article makes no sense talking about conspiracy theories. Alan has been directing movies because of his success with thrones. lol
I was reading 'Director Alan Taylor Hopes to Direct Game of Thrones Season 7' on Winter is Coming for iOS and I thought you might be interested in reading it too.

Anonymous said...

Yes, conspiracy theories tend not to make sense. Like, Jon Snow lives!--lol. Well it looks like he's busy with bigger projects that pay more money per unit of time. Which means a 6 month period is a big investment which is probably not affordable by HBO at his now higher rates. At least that's my take since you can always clear your calender if you REALLY want to. I"m thinking 6 months is about half of a full blown movie shooting schedule. But, one ep of GOT can't bring in say 25 to 150 mill?


Mike V. said...

You want to get more into conspiracy theories? I checked Kit's IMDB page and he's currenty shooting a movie called BRIMSTONE. Guess who else is starring in it with him? Carice Van Houten...i.e. Melissandre!! So they'd technically be on a similar shooting schedule. lol

The movie is shooting in Romania, Spain and Germany. He's going to be quite the jet setter! lol

I never said Jon Snow "LIVES"....I said I don't think Kit Harrington is done on Game of Thrones. lol And I won't believe it until the TV series and book series are over! (i.e. he could not show up all of season 6 but I'll still hang onto hope he's coming back!)

Anonymous said...

LOL, yea like LS!

Oh but wait, there's a theory that there was no LS so that JS could come back with more shock, or something like that--lol.

I read about Kit and Carice filming a movie together last week. Some said that since he was shooting a movie that he's moved on while other said that with Carice in the movie it's proof he can do both. Isn't that nuts. Obviously he could do a short scene and it's possible he may not come back until S7. The only thing is that S6 should have a lot of things happening up north and pull Dany into Westeros by it's end. So, if he comes back it seems like S6 should be it. Then S7 should be about some of the final battles and war overall. At least that's my neophyte thinking. Hence why Alex wants in S7--my theory is he knows there will be some amazing battles.


Mike V. said...

If you want to get technical, excluding LS totally makes sense now because it would lessen the significance of JS coming back.

If season 7 is the end (big if)...I wouldn't even expect that final season to be all battles all the time. It will most likely end in a giant battle that could span episodes but I still think there will be some character driven scenes as it is what the show excels at.

Alex Graves? I was talking about Alan Taylor above if that's what you're referring to. Alan was the original "go to" lead director on the show. He was so good he got scooped up to direct Thor 2. But he wants to come back. I'm sure they'll all come back.

Some people speculate S6 could be the "season of resurection".... Like maybe LS does come back now....they stalled Jaime and Brienne's storylines and they'll continue that story next season with LS. There still was no exit interview with the actor that plays THE HOUND and we never saw him die just like we didn't read about him dying. Apparently casting confirms that the guy that supposed hound was seen hanging around with will be in season 6. So people we thought were dead could be showing up all over the place in season 6.

I wouldn't count on LS though. But I think JS and Hound are pretty strong bets before season 6 is over.

Anonymous said...

Yes, I meant Alan. Alex---he's the one I didn't like with the Cersei scene. And exactly, Thor 2 was more money and a bigger gig. Agree on S7 not being all battles but I could see several battles which make up the war too.


It makes sense to have resurrections before a bunch of killing say in S7. IF they're going to have them--lol. I don't think Brienne is in the books any more she sure shouldn't be in the show, ugh.


Mike V. said...

Yeah, I could see that too. I just know how the show likes to BUILD to big moments. But maybe they could have MINI-Big moments throughout the season. lol


Brienne IS in the books more. Her whole season 5 plot was made up for the show. That's my point. They may have stalled Brienne and Jaime's actual book plot for season 6. But, I think you're in a minority with being a Brienne hater. She's a fan favorite and definitely a favorite for the GoT writing team. She's not going anywhere. lol

By your logic Bran, Theon, Dany, Tyrion, Castle Black and Cersei shouldn't be on the show either. There's no more book stuff for them either. So next season would be all Arya and the remaining chapters that we know of her! LOL Oh and the Iron Born. lol

Anonymous said...


Bran,Dany, Tyrion, Cb and Cersei,etc haven't been killed off--I don't think you follow my logic. I thought Brienne had been taken out after she met up with LS. But, now that I"m thinking about it, maybe she wasn't killed, she just left?

It's ok, I'm in the minority sometimes.


Anonymous said...

You will like this story on eye color change of JS

Warging, becoming ICE, who knows?

Mike V. said...


Nope she didn't. She was given the option of Sword or Noose or something like that and she uttered a word. The implication was sword...then I think we do see her bring Jaime in front of LS...but that's when the story ends. I think you missed the ADWD chapter for Brienne. It definitely was left as a cliffhanger in s4.

I have the Winter is coming app now and got notified of this article. lol I think peopole are really looking to much into the eye color change. I think it was like a reflection of light or something. It was meant to be unambiguous that he DIED in that scene. But, that doesn't mean he will stay dead. lol

Mike V. said...


If you want to catch up on Brienne's story. Looks like she's in WoW too lol

Anonymous said...

For WIC, pretty good on Rhollr--book stuff

Interesting excerpt
As for why the Red Priests and Priestesses (save Melisandre) are preaching that Dany is Ahai reborn, that stems from her rebirth of the dragons. One of the strange quirks of this Red God religion is that, although it is based on the historical myths of Westeros, much of its power is derived from dragons. It should be remembered that the Age of Heroes happened centuries before the Age of Valyria, when Dragons were first born and tamed, so there weren’t any dragons around during the last Long Night, nor was there any Valyrian steel (hence the Night’s King shock at seeing Jon’s sword defeat one of his White Walker generals).


Mike V. said...

Interesting stuff! Thanks for sharing. I have the WIC app on my phone, but it's a pain that I can't access those links on my work computer. lol

Kit Harrington Hair Watch! LOL

Anonymous said...

LOL, on Kit watch. His hair length. He's such a girlie guy that I assumed long hair was his normal deal.

I"m still 50/50 on him coming back. The Rhollr article I provided above speaks about how Melissandre is alone in her belief that Dany is not Azor Ahai. So, if Kit becomes Azor Ahai it's a big deal since almost everyone says it is Dany.

And so if you believe Kit is coming back you must also believe Melissandre knows better than all the other priests/priestesses.

Do you have faith in Melissandre? That's the underlying question.


Mike V. said...

Actually...he's consistently said in years' past that he only keeps his hair that long due to contractual obligations, hence why the hair watch has been in discussion since the finale aired. lol

He doesn't have to be Azor Ahai to be resurrected. But if she brings him back, she only needs to BELIEVE he's Azor Ahai. There may not even BE an Azor Ahai reborn.

I believe in simple science in TV/Movies and Literature. Thoros is a Red Priest. He lost faith, got drunk and raised Beric from the dead out of desperation. Melissandre is a red priestess. In the show, she has lost faith and has shown interest in Jon Snow's blood. She has also had a conversation with Thoros of raising the dead. And she conveniently made it back to the wall by the end of the episode right before Jon was stabbed to death. All of the plot clues are planted. And let's not forget Sam's intentionally hinting line in the episodes prior where he told Olly, "Jon Snow always comes back."

I'm sticking at 98% that Kit Harrington will return. But I'm 50/50 on him being a major part of season 6. Season 6 might be the equivalent of Star Trek III: The Search for Spock. My buddies over on Grantland made that analogy as a possibility. lol

Anonymous said...

If he hasn't cut his hair since he's coming back doesn't it make sense that it would be S6. I mean you can grow a lot of hair in a year.

So, you're saying you have faith in Melissandre raising Kit Harrington as something? It seems you must have. I just want to read where you are convinced that she will. You see, it's really your faith in her that's in question as far as Kit coming back. It's not your faith in Jon or any other character as far as the show goes. It would be your faith in her whereas the other Rholr servants believe that Dany is the one they are looking for.

I think if she does this with her being a renegade priestess and it works out as you think then she will have shocked the Rholr world.


Anonymous said...

What do you think of The Grand Northern Conspiracy theory?


Mike V. said...

****BOOK STUFF*****

I had no idea what that term was until I googled it. lol But if you look at some of my comments above (maybe search on Robb's Will) I definitely made a lot of dicussion points about the legitimization of Jon Snow that I had looked up remembering it was a vague plot point in the book.

I think it certainly is in play. Robb didn't just write that mysterious will and testament for nothing!

Mike V. said...

Just saw you posted twice. Even if he's in season 6 for one episode, one scene he would need his hair to remain for a little bit depending on the shooting schedule. lol

I don't need to be convinced that she will. I implied the clues are there in both book and show to indicate she might. I have no idea what's going to happen in the show or the book. But, I just am convinced Jon Snow's story is not over. Whether he's actually Jon Snow or some other incarnation or name (Targaryen, Stark) ...that's yet to be determined.

Like I've said countless times. I don't think it matters if Azor Ahai returning is a real thing or not. We know that resurrection is possible in this world where magic has arisen. We've seen Red Priests do it, we've seen the Night's King do it.

Dany could still be the promised one one even if Jon is risen. Dany and Jon may neither fulfill the prophecy. No one may fulfill the prophecy proving that the Lord of Light does not exist and only magic exists.

I don't know why you need me to make a hard and fast declaration of how things will go down. I have no idea how. I just am pretty certain Kit Harrington will return at some point to the story. lol

Anonymous said...

You answered my questions when you posted that you think that Dany could fulfill the prophesy even if HS is resurrected plus the other items where you are very open to what may happen.

From what I have read most are taking the position from the books that if JS is resurrected that Dany isn't what Varys was talking about to Tyrion. Just trying to figure out where you are on that concept.


Anonymous said...

Fat fingers, meant to have JS not HS.


Mike V. said...

Whew..sorry for delay today. Had car trouble this morning and playing catchup now.


Well you mention the books, so I should clarify Varys is parial to Aegon Targaryen in the books according to the epilogue. In the show he's loyal to Dany. Aemon Targaryen thinks that Dany is Azor Ahai before he dies. He said everyone was looking for a Prince instead of a Princess or something like that.

I've always assumed Jon Snow and Dany would be working together towards whatever end by the end of the series. Whether that makes one of them AA and the other one not...I don't know. But obviously there are theories that pits them against each other too. We won't know until we know. I have no strong feelings either way besides how I envision things coming to a conclusion. Dragons, Dragon glass and apparently Valyrian Steel against White Walkers.

I read some speculation that possibly the swords that make up the Iron Throne could be partially made of valyrian steel. That would be interesting....especially with how GRRM envisions the Throne when he writes the books. (not sure if you saw that image from The World of Ice and Fire book)

Anonymous said...

S6 and book6 various rumors.

Speaking of March of next year, that might be around the time Martin releases The Winds of Winter, which is another reason for the show to hold the casting announcement for the next few months. Martin has said he’s determined to get Book 6 out before Season 6 begins.

And with his suggestion this week that he will be going to WorldCon in November after all, that suggests The Winds of Winter is really close to being finished.


Anonymous said...

Tower of Joy, Bran, etc. good speculation stuff

It looks like Bran is definitely back next season though.

Anonymous said...

LOL, wonder if some guys are making money with look alike beards, etc.


Anonymous said...

More Snow pics--lol. I bet some people are just camping out waiting for him to be in costume so they can get "the" pic that everyone wants to see.

So, as these add up it does look more and more like JS will come back in some form.


Mike V. said...

Wow...i missed your comments back on 7/15. lol Sorry about that. But i was reading a lot of the same stuff. Yeah...i assumed March would be a good time to release the book if he does it.

Read the Tower of Joy speculation ...and definitely saw Bran actor confirmed he'd be back...but we already knew that! It's just confirmed now.

lol on the Harrington pics. I've been trying to avoid them but I get the tweets too. lol

Just as we would be impossible to keep a secret forever! Still holding firm at 98%. :)

Anonymous said...

Great comments on this link. Especially #3, I didn't know that! #4 is good too

3. GRRM's dedication in one of the books
GRRM opens one of his books with a dedication to Phyllis, thanking her "for making him put the dragons in." This means the dragons were not part of the story at the time of inception, when he was starting to write the story or shape it in his mind. So they are not integral to the larger themes and to the conclusion of the story. Basically: it is plausible that they'll die because they were not supposed to be there in the first place.


Mike V. said...

Read that yesterday and thought it was kinda reaching. I mean yeah the dragons might die but I seriously doubt it's because of #3. I would imagine that many authors alter their game plans over the course of writing their series of books. They may have an initial idea for where things will end up, but then as they get into the meat of things, it turns into something slightly different.

Same concept with stuff like LOST. They may have known the island was protecting the world from certain darkness/evil...and the protectors are there to make sure it stays that way. But outside of that, the characters in play could change over time. Eko was supposed to be a big mainstay on the show,but the actor wanted off so they altered the plan a bit.

GRRM could've told Phyllis (which I definitely read the dedication when reading the books) about the books series he was coming up with in the early stages of writing. And she may have liked all of the ideas but then gotta put dragons in it!

The fact that dragon eggs were seen early in Game of Thrones is planting Checkov's gun. The fact that there was a history of dragons throughout the book means it is in the DNA of the series.

GRRM is still tinkering with his plot as he said he's coming up with things the show cannot do now (either out of spite or truly because it's what he wants to write).

I guess it's interesting to ponder, but I just felt like that article is exactly what it sets out to be....something to keep people pondering the song of ice and fire while we wait for another book and/or another season! lol

Mike V. said...

Winter is Coming keeps notifying me every 4 - 8 minutes that Kit Harrington has been confirmed in Belfast and with all of his hair. lol

There was a new picture posted as of 2:30pm Easter Time.

Hysterical how big of an event this thing has become.

Anonymous said...

Yes, the "hair watch", "kit watch","etc watch" not only being done, but reported on almost hourly is a bit much--lol. I expected some of it, but this is nuts.

So, I would be a nut job if I stayed at 50/50 on JS coming back in some form. I mean the guy is there doing this work. So, it seems that question has been asked and answered. Now, in which ep, what he is when he is resurrected and the effects he has on those around him--those questions seem to remain. Some believe we know, but I'm not sure. I certainly have ideas as we've discussed here. The longer he remains with the crew would logically equate to the more eps in which he will appear.


Mike V. said...

I've stayed away from the watch as much as I can. I know he's been seen in Belfast..that's enough for me! lol But would think his time on set may clarify how significant his presence in the season will be. We'll see!