Monday, April 25, 2016

Game of Thrones: Season 6 Episode 1 - The Red Woman

Hello friends.  It's been a long wait, but we're back!  Game of Thrones has returned and in fine form.  WOW.  I've been on the "I've read the books" side of the fence for so long now that watching this episode without any clue what was coming next was a new and intense experience!  For season kickoff episodes this one seemed to pack more punch than usual.  It certainly was a setup episode for the season, but it was a thrilling ride from storyline to storyline.

I usually take time to give my disclaimer that while I have book knowledge I will not spoil anything that hasn't occurred on the show yet.  It really doesn't apply this week as we are into uncharted territory.  However, it may still apply this season from time to time based on storylines they could still cover in one way or another.  But, for now let's dive in and discuss the highlights from each storyline they covered this week.  

Discussion Points

We were left with various cliffhangers at the end of season 5 and the premiere wasted no time returning to cover them all.  We'll save the biggest one for last even though the episode started with it!

Winterfell / Sansa and Theon

  • It was strange to see Ramsay actually said, but he mourned his old girlfriend Myranda was was thrown off a Winterfell wall by Theon prior to his and Sansa's escape.  Ramsay pledged his revenge, but then also offered her remains up as food for the hounds.  A fitting funeral for the kennel master's daughter I guess? 
  • Roose put Ramsay in his place for his failures.  Sure, they defeated Stannis's army but they basically cheated with their sneak attacks instead of having a proper battle.  And Ramsay's games with the heir to Winterfell and the heir to the Iron Islands have also backfired and they've escaped.  Ramsay needed to produce his own heir to Winterfell with Sansa and now that he hasn't Roose once again has thrown up the possibility that his wife Walda may have a son.  That surely will motivate Ramsay to do some more awful things to retain his position.   He sent the hounds after Sansa and Theon. 
  • We join Sansa and Theon in the wintery northern snows (Winter has come folks!) running on unbroken legs!  Okay, first book comparison.  The snows were a bit deeper when Theon and Ramsay's fake Arya bride jumped off the Winterfell walls.  Here, the snows were held up (because of the Shireen sacrifice possibly?) when Sansa and Theon jumped off that 100 foot or whatever wall.  They couldn't spend a few moments to explain how they survived that fall?  Good times! 
  • The duo risk their lives crossing a frozen river rather than the hounds catching up with them.  They then take shelter under a fallen tree where they're both soaked and freezing.  They hug for warmth.  The hounds and Bolton soldiers do show up and Theon offers up his life for Sansa to escape and head North to the Wall and her brother Lord Commander Jon Snow (ummm, guess they haven't gotten the word yet!)
  • The hounds aren't fooled by Theon's lie that Sansa is dead and they find her.  At this point, I thought to myself "Brienne, where are you and what are you waiting for?!"   The show did not disappoint.  While book Brienne is still hanging around the Riverlands trying to keep her Oath, show Brienne and Podrick have found Sansa once again and they have a crazy awesome brawl with the Bolton soldiers.  Brienne gets some good kills, Podrick has some successful bouts and when Podrick is about to be overrun Theon throws in his help.  And then in a scene that mirrors when Brienne pledged her sword to Catelyn Stark she does the same to Sansa (in a bit of relieve on Brienne's face when she does it too).   We also learn that Catelyn's original response was a formal response to someone pledging their word as Sansa struggles to remember the words.  It was nice of Podrick to help her through it too.  
  • So, we now will see what the adventures of Brienne, Pod, Theon and Sansa will look like.  Will they still head to the Wall?  If Jon Snow's rebels stand a chance against the other Night's Watch crew they might be safe for a little while up there.  And of course, there's always the potential for Snow's return as we all expect at some point this season. 

King's Landing

Jaime rescued Myrcella last season, but Ellaria Sand poisoned her when they said goodbye.  Cersei did her walk of shame and got a newly reformed Mountain to protect her (they still haven't used his book name yet, so I'll wait).  Queen Margaery still is held captive by the Faith Militant. 
  • Cersei is excited to hear that the Dorne expedition has returned, but her smiles change when she sees the Gold Shroud that accompanies Jaime.  Maggy the Frog's prophecy has all but almost come true and she shares this with Jaime.  
  • Cersei's description of a rotting corpse was pleasant as expected.  I'll spare you from the details.  Jaime took the blame for his daughter's death as her father, but Cersei said there was nothing he could do due to this prophecy.  Jaime is not one to believe in the words of a crazy witch and vows revenge on everyone who has taken from them.  Something tells me we haven't seen the end of this Dorne conflict.    (I will remind everyone that the Dorne storyline is a complete show invention and is a consolidation from the ACTUAL Dorne storyline of the books which was only starting to build when book 5 ended.  This is helpful information when we see what happens in Dorne in this episode.)
  • Before we get to Dorne, we'll take a quick detour to Margaery who is only concerned for her brother Ser Loras.  The Shame Lady (Septa Onella?) reads scripture passages and repeatedly asks Margaery to confess.  Eventually, the High Sparrow comes to visit her and tell her she is not pure, perfect or holy without sin.  She has only started her path to redemption.  Oh boy. 

  • Tristane painting eyes.......on a boat....2 of the sand snakes...we're here to kill you.   her or me?   sword up......whip girl.     took him out.   obara????   other one mad.    
  • Oh no, more DORNE!!!  It seems that the show runners are well aware that this storyline paid little dividends and they're cutting their losses quickly.  Prince Doran speaks words in praise of his brother Oberyn and how he lived life to the fullest but would've been a lousy ruler.  Ruling was Doran's destiny.  Ellaria Sand concurs.  A message comes to Doran where he finds out Myrcella has been poisoned.  Not a moment later, Sand Snake #1 (Ellaria's daughter) kills Doran's guard Areah Hotah (I actually forget how to spell it, but he's gone and we barely knew the show version of him).   And Ellaria takes her vengeance out on Prince Doran with a knife and a speech about how he stood by to watch the deaths of Elia Martell and her Children as well as Oberyn Martell.  She also promised that Tristane would never rule either.
  • Tristane, who I thought would've been on a boat to King's Landing with Jaime, somehow was on a different boat with Sand Snakes 2 and 3.  They promised he would die and he got to pick which one would do it.  He picked Whip girl but Spear girl cheated and pierced his head from the back.  RIP Tristane. 
  • So, WOW.  They just went ahead and killed 3 book players within a minute.  But, this is a TV show that is trying to move towards an end game and these players were providing no value.  So, things are simpler now.  Ellaria Sand and her Sand Snakes rule Dorne and the Lannister siblings have a bone to pick with them.  Crazy!  
Dany has fled her city on the back of Drogon and ended up captured by Dothraki.  This left Tyrion and Varys in a position to somehow keep the peace while Jorah and Daario went to look for their Queen.  
  • We join Tyrion and Varys walking through the war ridden city discussing how they will govern this city that is still revolting and now have abandoned hope with their abandoned queen.  There were some comical comments with Tyrion's awful Valerian trying to help a starving mother and child.  There was some graffiti to show that not everyone is thrilled with Queen Danaerys' rule.  
  • We also ran into a Red Priest who was trying to rally the former slaves who think Dany has abandoned them.  Tyrion is concerned of this development.  
  • They speak of how fear has brought the city to a standstill and that someone must be pulling the strings of the Sons of the Harpy.  Varys has his little birds taking flight to start figuring out who this is.  
  • Meanwhile, we see that they're at it again as they burned the fleet in Slaver's bay.  (Beautiful CGI shot by the way)   And book readers and show readers can both join in the Tyrion's lament as he says they're not heading to Westeros any time soon!  

  • The unlikely duo team up to find Dany.  They trace the remains of Dragon burned animal corposes and a Dothraki hoard.  
  • Before that though, they speak about how they both share love for the same girl and how Daario admires Jorah for being a romantic, but also sees what he would possibly be like when he's older as well.  
  • Jorah also checks his arm and sees the greyscale is spreading.  
  • Anyway, the finding of Dany's dropped ring happened exactly as we imagined it would.  Jonah just HAPPENED to be standing right in front of the tall grass in which it lay.  And they immediately knew that the Dothraki had captured her.  
  • We rejoin Dany cuffed and being forced to walk with the Dothraki hoard as one of their captured prizes for Khal Moro.  They speak their insulting words of how they want to ravage her and all that stuff.  
  • We see some amazing shots of the entire hoard that you'd think this was a large budget movie.  I think that budget per episode must've gone up yet again!     
  • Dany is brought before the Khal.  Long story short, she reveals who she is and that she was Khal Drogo's wife.  She requests that they take her back to Meereen in exchange for 1000 horses.  Apparently, it is customary for Khal widows to return to Vaes Dothrak to mourn their Khals with all the other widows.   Doesn't sound like something Dany will stand for!  And of course, her men are enroute to help her out. 
  • There was a comical exchange where Khal Moro explains how seeing a beautiful woman naked for the first time is one of the greatest things in life.  Everyone else chimed in with other things that are greater.  He then retorts that it is still a top 5 moment in his life.  Good stuff. 
  • Also, Dany quoted the witch from Season 1 who killed her unborn child and made Khal Drogo a fate worse than death when she spoke of the sun setting in the east and rising in the west.   


We briefly check in on the blind Arya who is now playing the role of a beggar in Braavos.  I honestly cannot remember if this story is playing out the way it did in the books (she definitely was blinded I just don't remember the resolution to it).  But basically, she's going through some training to increase her other senses.  The other girl from the House of Black and white kicked the ever living #### out of her, but insinuated that she will get stronger.  "Your eyes deceive you, don't trust them!" - Obi-wan Kenobi.   Though, this was more like Daredevil training than Star Wars training!  Arya will continue her training in a future episode!  And we all just want her to go back to Westeros and start crossing off names on that list of hers! 

Castle Black

Finally, we're here.  The episode kicked off right where the last one ended.  Jon Snow's murderers left his body in the snow to rot.  Ghost howled in his confinement.  Davos discovered the body and had Jon's buddy Dolores Edd and a couple people he trusts bring Jon's body into Davos' quarters.  
  • Davos puts a plan in motion.  They have a handful of people they trust, plus Ghost and possibly the Red Woman.  
  • Mellisandre is allowed in to see Jon.  She says she saw him in the flames fighting at Winterfell (Foreshadowing people!!)   Davos can't speak for the flames but assures everyone (just like the producers and cast have for almost a year) Jon Snow is dead.  (yet they paid all of that money for Kit Harrington to return and play a corpse and retain his contractually obligated hair!) 
  • Thorne meanwhile gathers the Night's Watch and comes clean on killing Jon Snow with a small band of other leaders like Bowen Marsh.   (Fun book fact, it's Bowen Marsh who leads the coup in the books.  Not Thorne or the show made up character Ollie.)  Thorne then explains why he did it.  He actually speaks of his respect for Snow and knowing that he did what he thought was right.  But, Thorne and crew did not agree with Jon's antics to bring the wildlings through the gate.  It was a terrible choice which forced their hand.  We'll see Thorne!  We'll see! 
  • Edd is quick to want to get his revenge on Thorne and pledges his death that day to do it.  Davos is calm, cool and collected and had a better idea.  He basically implies that the Wildlings owe a debt to Jon Snow too.  Since Edd has fought alongside the wildlings in Hardhome he knows it's up to him to go catch up with Torment Giantsbane (I only assume that's who he'll talk to).  
  • With the rest of the crew hiding behind that door, Thorne gives them an ultimatum to surrender by nightfall and all debts will be forgiven.  Davos can head south with the Red Woman or not. Davos comically request some mutton too.  
  • Davos knows the minute they go out that door they will all be slaughtered.  So they will wait for Edd, but Davos also implies that he's seen the Red Woman do things that also might help their situation. 
  • We then get the most shocking twist of the night as we join Mellisandre in her quarters.  She's looking in the mirror and we just know she's going to disrobe.  A.) Because she does it all of the time.  B.)  The HBO teaser claimed there would be nudity and we didn't have any to this point.  (you know you all read that too!)    Anyway, she did disrobe, but then took off her magical necklace.  I have to admit, I don't think I took too much notice to the necklace before.  When she removed it, the stone glowed a bright red and then we saw what remained.  It was a very very old woman.  She retired to bed in her actual form and the audience stares with mouths dropped wide open.  WHAAAT!?!?!?! 
So there you have it folks.  Jon Snow is still dead and Mellisandre is like 400 years old!  Apparently, the actress has spoken to the character's age before.  I don't really recall if there's been reference to it in the books, but they definitely never revealed her true form.  Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure if this is a show invention or something GRRM has alluded to in the books or directly to the show runners.  But regardless, it was quite shocking!  It's not "Jon Snow is reborn" shocking, but shocking nonetheless!  (Let's not kid ourselves, Jon Snow returning in some form on this show wouldn't be shocking!  The only way they stand a chance to shock is is in the manner in which he returns!)  

Anyway, I was thrilled with this season premiere and hope that season 6 lives up to the show runners' declaration that it is their best yet.  There are tons of exclusive articles/interviews on EW as always and I will share them in the comments eventually unless someone beats me to it.  I look forward to our regular discussions on the show.  Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and I'll see you next week! 


Anonymous said...

Thanks for the recap.

I looked forward to this ep all day long.
1. I'm so glad you think the Dorne story is going away. Unfortunately, I think it's a part of the girl power movement. I think they're going to double down on the ridiculousness for one thing because Dorne's in the opening along with other cities. I have to believe GRRM being a student of history and of royal rule knows what happened is sheer nonsense. For one, the people wouldn't be clamoring for an Oberyn revenge because he was killed in a fair fight. If anything Oberyn was cheating with poison. The other is that ALL of them are Sands--not legitimate royals. See Bolton story for comparison. I found it laughable and so it took away from the ep somewhat. It's storylines like this that concern me about the show going forward too. When the showrunners depart from the GRRM story like they have here(unrealistically and without reason) it's been a huge negative.
2. I liked everything on the Esos side--particularly the Tyrion/Varys walk. We'll see what happens when the mother of dragons gets one of her dragons to show up. It'll be great.
3. Yea, Arya and Jedi training--it was obvious and worth a smile.
4. Cersei and Jamie could end up in a disagreement with Tommen. But, I like them together vs fighting each other. Wish they'd get her hair back soon.
5. The Brienne/Sansa stuff--Seriously, they show Brienne being unhorsed by joe shmoe Bolton soldier and it's supposed to create concern as she lays there grabbing for her sword. It's stuff like this along with Dorne that give me concern--again going off on their own--the show runners. Brienne has been established as undefeatable--it's like watching a Perry Mason eps.
6. I'll have to admit when the show opened with JS laying there alone in the snow I was a little surprised. Then when they picked up the body and instead of putting it on a pyre to be burned I was rolling my eyes. I'll go into more of this later. BTW, am I the only one who believes Davos sent the guy to the Wildings--those that JS helped.
7. Yes, I called it, the ep would have very little of the titular character and she wouldn't do much. HEr being shown a witch is of course to show the audience that she has some powers. Can't wait to see her go to work.


Anonymous said...

OK, so thinking about the Dorne stuff a little. They must be putting a lot of effort into this because of the Tower of Joy related stuff. And so a possible show down fight between the sands and the Mountain.

BTW, if that's it, am I the only one who can wait for, I don't know--EVER--lol.


Mike V. said...

No problem Richard, thanks for your thoughts as always.

1.) I don't think the Dorne story is necessarily going away. I think they're just consolidating. They had started developing a bunch of characters and they have whittled it down to the bare necessities due to the uninteresting plot developments (my guess, not fact). But lends to the "Girl Power" movement you speak of as well. It's still not my favorite storyline so I won't dispute anything you have said against it. In fact, I mostly agree.

2.) There still are 2 dragons in Meereen chained up. I feel like we saw Tyrion in that dungeon/cave in a trailer for this season didn't we?

3.) Definitely a Star Wars nod...but if you watch Daredevil it's a more recent comparison (and so far what i've seen in the recaps and after shows lol - speaking of I enjoyed "After the Thrones" on HBO Go. As I mentioned before, it's with my favorite Podcast duo that you slammed at the end of last season lol)

4.) I think it's going to take awhile for her hair to grow back (Cersei)! But, I's a better look for her with the longer hair. It's not looking likely, but I still keep hoping Jaime will somehow return to his book plot. It just may not be relevant at this point in the show story.

5.) Brienne/Sansa - I knew you'd have something to say about it. But, I enjoyed the scene and it was one of the more powerful of the episode for me...especially the oath between Brienne/Sansa. Even the character repair of Theon was handled pretty well. I don't pay that much attention to the dynamics of the fight scenes...they're a means to the next part of the plot for me. I enjoy watching them though...of course! \

6.) I know what you mean about not putting him on a pyre. For fear he might turn into a wight. I was listening to a podcast this morning...and apparently in the book they speak of magic in the WALL that prevents people from turning south of the wall? I don't know if that's true though considering the dude that attacked Mormont in season 1 was south of the wall. He died north of the wall though.

Why would you be the only one who thought Davos sent the guy to the Wildlings? It was the most obvious implication of the episode. And that dude is Dolores Edd. And by this sentence, I can tell you didn't read the entire recap yet! lol

7.) That's funny that you associate OLD LADY with witch. lol I thought the major takeaway was that she was much older than she appears and that necklace gives her certain glowed when she drank the poisoned wine, it probably glowed when she birthed the shadow baby and of course it glowed when she took it off and resumed her natural appearance.

Look forward to discussing further!

Mike V. said...

I definitely want to see the TOJ scene....But, I don't think they would've established Dorne just for that. The whole Sand Snakes thing seemed to be done as fan service because fans couldn't wait to see them. And they were basically shoehorned into the story. Now they can't just write them off they have to play the plot through.

Mike V. said...

Okay here's the links as promised:

Director speaks about Melisandre surprise:

Gwendolyn Christie speaks:

Hibberd's Recap:

Clarice Van Houton (sp - aka melisandre) speaks about her scene:

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the links. BTW, the following is from the WIC book readers recap.

"On to The Red Woman. We open where we left off at the end of last season: at Castle Black, as Jon Snow’s body rots in the yard. I know all the mutineers just kinda walked away from the body at the end of “Mother’s Mercy,” and now I gotta wonder why. Why didn’t they take it somewhere, or bury it, or burn it, or do something that doesn’t give Jon Snow’s supporters the opportunity to collect it and bring it inside the room where Davos is staying? "

I didn't waste my time reading any more since this person obviously doesn't get the whole "dead people turn into Wights" thing. We saw it happen right there, in that very spot a few seasons ago. This is not a passing thing in the show. This is central to the whole Ice vs Fire theme. And yet, it's just glossed over with an amazing quantity of audience members and recappers missing a huge plot hole. It's makes me loose some trust in the show runners for sure. Now that the body is on the table in the building it's easy to say it won't change. But, that's not the point. The point is leaving a dead body in the snow and ice on the very ground where wights have sprung up before AND, AND, AND it's been the Nights Watch protocol to immediately burn bodies ever since the first time we saw it happen. They don't just leave dead bodies laying around. Given that was the opening it really set up the entire ep for me as being questionable. Kind of discouraging actually. It would have been easy to write it in too for all the reasons we suspect. At least the writer from WIC stated that it didn't seem right to just leave the body there.


Mike V. said...

I commented on your arguments above, so I'll wait until you catch up. lol

Mike V. said...

I googled is a true statement that the magic of the WALL is supposed to prevent White Walkers and Wights from crossing. Hence the whole search for the horn of Jaron in the books. (or whatever it's called) The one exception we've seen is the one wight that attacked Mormont. But he was dead north of the wall and brought in. People have theories on why this can be.

Tormund told Jon to bring Ygritte up north (in the show...maybe the book) for her final resting place...but then told him to burn her. So it's something about being north of the wall I think.

This lends credence to my theory that I think that wall is coming down before the end.

Mike V. said...

Reading good theories about Melisandre. Having just rewatched a lot of the show (still have 3 episodes to go) I also observed how she always dresses in her red gown even in the snow and never seems cold. Her faith in the Lord of Light kept her burning warm. She's losing faith now....she took the necklace off and actually physically seemed cold and got into bed under the warm blankets.

I'm adding this part....if you recall when Thoros of Myr tells the story of how he raised Beric from the dead he was at true Rock Bottom....he was just at wits end had lost all faith and just prayed for his friend to return....and then he did.

Melisandre is now at her lowest point of a long long life...she seems to be losing faith. Seems like we're on a similar track here.

Someone also mentioned to me they think she'll give her life for Jon's. This could be the end of her long reign. We'll see!

Crazy to theorize on this show where we always knew what was coming next and couldn't spoil! lol

Anonymous said...

On the wall theory.

The Nights King wanted to sail around the wall. The wights would have been alive.

Yea, and the Nights are no longer true after the first assasination. Interesting how the Nights Watch has assassinated their last 2 leaders.

You just rewatched the series. Do you remember those wights being touched before coming alive at Castle Black?

The Wall coming down makes some sense. I can't recall how it gained it's magic. Never really read that it had magic.

BTW, Ed's pursuit of the Wildlings makes the battle scene pic more understandable now.

ON Dorne, I"m not saying they created the whole Dorne stuff for the TOJ fallout. I"m just trying to figure out why they are growing the story and growing the story in a different way than the book.


Anonymous said...

Mellisandre giving her life for Jon's. That's an interesting thought. Not in her character and wasn't done when Beric was raised. But,still may happen. It's a fair point that the lord of light wants his people to be at rock bottom to do their thing in raising people.

I sure hope they don't wait a lot of eps to raise JS. He's start smelling pretty badly very quickly. Particularly now that the body is in an enclosed room with a little heat.

Only 40 at CB now. Could easily be overthrown. I wonder why the Nights King isn't attacking since his enemy is so vulnerable?


Mike V. said...

Brandon the Builder erected the Wall...I know that. Magic in the wall is spoken about throughout the books. I didn't recall the Wights thing...but we do know the wall was ereced to keep the Walkers and Wights out. I do not recall if anyone touched the body before coming alive. But surely someone touched him...they had to get him inside the castle.

All I know is they speak of that horn in the book A LOT. (like Chekov's Gun a lot) On one of those boards they have a theory that it's actually in Oldtowne (where Sam is going). The legend of the horn is that it will bring down the wall.

But yes the wall crumbling would just be dramatically a great moment in the saga (books and show)...I just feel it has to happen. Could even be like a season 7 ending shot or something. Maybe even season 6 for all we know.

So you think the Wildlings will fight the Boltons? I guess that makes sense. But do we think it'll take all season for the Wildlings to get to castle black to help out Jon Snow's defenders? Of course Melisandre said her vision was of Jon fighting in Winterfell so it could be Jon Stark/(or perhaps a different last name) and the wildlings against the Boltons.

Dorne - I don't think they're growing the story. I think they're trying to END the story (because it really was going nowhere fast). But the book story definitely was growing the story into a more complex plot. All of those people vying for Dany's affection. etc...


Ahhh I feel so much better to have some book knowledge. With that fleet in meereen burned....they're going to need some ships. Any bets that the Iron Born will still make their expedition to Meereen??

Mike V. said...

Shouldn't be too hard to keep Jon Snow on ICE to stop him from smelling. lol (kidding)

If the wall is truly keeping them out...then I can't imagine the Night's King is ready to make his attack. You mentioned him wanting to sail around the wall. Do we know if the White Walkers have ships to even do that?

Mike V. said...

"The Wall was reputedly created over 8,000 years prior to the present setting by Brandon the Builder after the Long Night to defend the realms of man from the wildlings and Others. Approximately 300 miles in length and 700 feet in height, the Wall is protected by the Night's Watch and according to some, ancient spells and sorcery.[1]"

The footnote is that the sorcery comments come from A Storm of Swords, Chapter 56, Bran IV.

Mike V. said...

Key Takeaways from Bran Chapter IV in ASOS
"The Wall - The Wall has ancient spells woven into it that prevent certain types of creatures from passing through."

Anonymous said...

So, the wall is indeed magical. Yea, the horn will definitely be a big deal. I could see why the king would want it.


Mike V. said...

Since the horn was never mentioned in the show I'm not sure if they'll go that route or not...but I can totally seeing it be a big deal in the books. Of course...I'm not sure how the wall would come down without it. I could see Sam doing a lot of study about it while he's working on becoming a maester in Oldtowne.

Anonymous said...

The thing with the wall coming down means no more protection from the North. It seems there's always been a threat coming from the North.

I guess if the wall comes down it would be reflective of a tremendous paradigm shift re the people, gods, etc from the North?


Mike V. said...

I don't know. I just always assumed the Walkers and Dead would come to Westeros before the end (Not a very bold assumption lol) for that to happen it would be a pretty epic event for the WALL to crumble and have them march right through and start the Long Night. It could coincide with Dany and the Dragons arriving in Westeros, Arya returning to Westeros and the battle of Fire and Ice would commence.

Of course...if the Walkers are ever going to make it to King's Landing that seems like it would take a long time at the pace they've been going. So who knows the timing of everything?

It seems like the end of this season should have a pretty big event revolving around the White Walkers don't you think?

Anonymous said...

I HOPE so, we need a big white walker event. And it could tie in with JS resurrection.

BTW, probably good call on the ships from the iron islands going to esos--at least I think you're onto something there.

Well, the wights might come around via ships. I thought that was there plan last year when the descended into that port city.

For the White Walkers to make it all the way to KL means a LOT of people in Westeros would have been killed/lost. But, Dany's vision in the tower seemed to show that there was one heck of a battle there. Another reason I think about the sailing around is Winterfell. It would be kind of a strange narrative for Sansa/Starks to get Winterfell back in S6 or S7 only to loose it again to the White Walkers as they move South. Of course Sansa/Starks may not get Winterfell back until after the Ice and Fire war. Which probably means the Boltons hold onto Winterfell until they are overthrown by the Whitewalkers.


Mike V. said...

Yeah...I have a feeling the JS resurrection may not happen as quickly as we hoped. There might be some truth to Kit Harrington saying "I won't be in next season" in his first interview. But, it wouldn't be the first time the GoT cast/crew lied either.

All in the spirit of preserving the story until it is revealed to fans.

I just finished Hardhome this morning. I really did not think that was the White Walker's plan when they descended there. I thought they were just getting more meat for their army. They seem to destroy anything they touch too like those non valaryan (sp) steel swords. What would happen if they stepped on a wooden ship?

All good points on the Walker's march south. And good point that they may be the ones to take out the Boltons. Interesting idea. I don't think Sansa will be going to Winterfell right now. She's either going to the Wall or they're going to continue Brienne's quest to find BOTH Stark girls. Or for some reason they'll go to Riverrun so Brienne can get back on her book 4/5 mission storyline. Of course...I guess there's nothing saying that LS has to show up in Riverrun in the show. (I know I know...that story is NOT going to happen! lol)

MJ said...

Out yesterday and very busy today. Sigh. Will have to red comments tomorrow. Think Pennsy votes tondight - which means all our shows taping will be messed up.

loved how al the hounds just magically disappeared once Theon, Brienne and Pod started battling Ramsey's men. And Ramsey moruning the loss of Miranda - but feedingher to the dogs. he really is a psycho. LOL Dang - Ellaria killed the Prince of Dorne ! I get that she might want another leader of Dorne but she herself surely is not royalty ? My recollection is that she is just a mistress. Totally forgot the prediction about the gold shrouds. For a very short second I actually felt sorry for Cersei - but it didn't last. ;-D Figured Dany woud not get out of this unscathed - now she has to go hand forever at some hall of Dothraki widows ? LOL too funny. But why do you say the guy trying to gather a rebel force was a Red Priest ? Have to say - Melisandre revealing what she is like after taking off that necklace - Just ewwww. But I felt that bringing in Wildings to help fight against Thorn is making Thorn's point for him ! Wildings aren't to be trusted. Was it me or was there a shape to Jon snow's blood on the ground ?

Anonymous said...

I wondered about the blood pattern too, but couldn't come up with anything.

EXACTLY--Ellaria and her daughters are NOT royalty.

BTW, MIke, why have LS when we can have the made up Dorne saga--lol.

Well, you can certainly say as a Nights WAtch leader that their membership should not be trusted. Just ask Jorah and now John Snow, both assassinated.

I kind of suspect with Theon that the almighty, all capable, all terrain-lol--Brienne may go toward the Iron Islands if not the Wall. LOL, LOL--I've got it, a good Star Wars comparison for Brienne--LOL---The Imperial Walkers--LOL. They walk so stiff--lol. Seriously the people in my office think I've got a laughing attack!!

As stated before, the longer the JS resurrection takes, the more incredulous each passing ep becomes. Compounding incredulity actually.

I haven't said it before, but my rating on this ep is about a 5 to 6 and to me that's being generous. I can't imagine that improving if JS isn't resurrected and the Charlie's Angels down there in Dorne keep center stage.


Mike V. said...

Ugh...good reminder on the shows MJ, thanks! I think it's only SHIELD that will get messed up for me....nope not true...FOX comedies too.

It was a recurring theme on Reddit with the hounds disappearing. Most people just said they probably ran off when the fighting started. They are there to hunt but probably not participate in battle. Still is funny. lol

Ellaria is a bastard just like all of Oberyn's daughters. This is so off book now that I can't even make sense of it all. I think they're just consolidating plot. FUNNY Richard....obviously I would totally prefer the LS stuff! lol Dorne is a disaster!

The guy DEFINITELY was a Red Priest. He was wearing red and he said "The night is dark and full of terrors"....I'm pretty sure he did!

Good point on Thorne's point. But Wildlings are just men/women trying to survive the bigger threat that will impact them all. We saw them working side by side with the Night's Watch at Hardhome when they faced a common foe. It's the needs of the many vs. the few at this point.

I did notice the camera lingering on Jon's blood on the ground. Wasn't sure if it was meant to imply something or not.

Jorah was not assasinated FYI -----that's Old Bear's son who is in Essos looking for Dany. Lord Commander Mormont was assasinated (but I don't remember his first name)

You and your Brienne hate is hysterical. Obviously the Brienne comparison to Star Wars is Captain Phasma...duh she's in both now! :)

As for Jon's ressurrection....yes depending on your definition of the WIGHTs transition and where it can take place. There's no telling if Jon will be risen off camera and then make a triumphant return as a surprise later in the season.

We didn't even get to all the characters in season 6 yet. Next episode will probably feature players we haven't even seen this season yet. BRAN and his crew, Sam and Gilly enroute to Oldtowne.....maybe the Iron Born. There's still a lot to cover.

Anonymous said...

I agree, the other characters will occupy a lot of the next ep or so. That gives some in and out time re Melissandre if they want. Which can move the story forward while delaying a big event.

I wondered about the hounds too and have had some to hunt with. I've used bird dogs, deer dogs, coon dogs, etc. Basically the hounds would have done 2 things. Kept going for the person they have the scent for then work to defend their masters. The hounds being taken out of the scene was terribly unrealistic/sad. To some extent watching the imperial walker at work and laughing at her brought enough amusement that helped me ignore the hounds some.

BTW, I have a hard time accepting the non canon recent release as being legit and so to recall Capt Phasma is practically impossible when I try to forget the movie altogether-lol.


MJ said...

Finally getting to read the comments. I also think it would be ridiculous for Ellaria or a Sand to rule Dorne. As for the poison - cheating seems to be a way of life in Dorne - whether it be in fights or love. Just saying. Richard - there is nothing that Brienne character can do or say that would make you happy because you dislike her and the actress so much. LOL. I liked the scene alot actually. I found it moving when Brienne pledges herself to Sansa as she once did to Caitlyn.

Geez - tower of Joy ? Guess there is still book stuff that show watchers don't know about. No worries.

Girl power ? You men are so funny with that. Almost none of these women have power. Maergary and Cersei are good an manipulating men to get what they want. Sansa just keeps getting rescued by men with their own agendas (Baelish) or who need help as much as she does (theon). Arya is now being controlled by a man - but she will get her girl power - as long as she follows THEIR rules. We will see if Ellaria gets any power. But in my opinion Brienne and Dany are the only ones with 'girl power' as in they are out in the world doing what they want to do on their terms.

Haven't seen the After Thrones yet. Am going to try.

"The guy DEFINITELY was a Red Priest. He was wearing red and he said "The night is dark and full of terrors"....I'm pretty sure he did! " I don't think I knew that phrase meant anything. LOL. Nor did I think wearing red bore anything out. Oops.

Mike V. said...

General consensus of the Brienne/Sansa scene was that it was well earned on both sides after several seasons of both of them being down on their luck. I'm not going to debate the clumsiness of Gwendoline's stunt double's fighting skills. She is playing Brienne to a tee as George R.R. Martin explains her in the books. She's a fantastic character in my opinion. The hound thing is definitely weak especially since we saw them maul humans in previous seasons in Ramsay's "fun hunts"

Non-Canon Commentary = Non-Funny! :) But, we've already debated that to death and there's no reason to bring up all the reasons again for how I won that debate! LOL

Mike V. said...

MJ, for some reason I decided to respond to your post from bottom to top. lol
Red Priest - I think he was preaching about the Lord of Light R'llor too and that's a dead giveaway too. They ran into a Red Priestess in Volantis last year too (Tyrion/Varys).

After the Thrones - It's pretty funny to see their podcast schtick highly edited....there were some jokes I kinda figured they'd use in the 1st episode. But then on their podcast this week they highly critqued their first TV outing. Andy told a really bad joke about Borat and it didn't fly....and on the podcast he was regretting it. lol Anyway....the format of the show is cool and helps people understand the geography more while they're talking. They have a map up of where each character is in relation to everyone else.

Girl Power - I wouldn't even bring it up if it wasn't for Richard. That said...this time Sansa was rescued by another WOMAN this time. There is commentary around this episode that it is pandering to some of the complaints the show got in the past. (The showrunners claim they have not changed a single word of the show due to criticism. Damon and Carlton used to say that too...they knew when stuff in the show wasn't working and were course correcting before fan feedback ever came in...i.e. Nikki/Paolo) Arya is controlled by NO ONE! ;-) lol I'm not really getting to any point here. I just enjoy the show and don't really look for any of these real world political themes within it. I just respond whenever Richard brings it up to what I've read or observed. lol

Tower of Joy - I tried to keep that in spoiler commentary or abbreviations. But it is something referred to in the books a lot. It's related to where Ned found his sister Llyana when she died . Not really a spoiler. It's backstory...but we think if that backstory comes into play it will be for a very significant reason to prove out a theory that we've all had while reading the books and even watching this show. Richard....we need to get better at using our spoiler warnings when discussing BOOK STUFF not covered in the show yet!

Brienne/Sansa - Probably the best scene of the episode. Totally agree MJ!

Anonymous said...

Did I miss a red priest moment re a rebel force? Where/when?

Brienne--yea, she's hilarious and great for comedic relief. And so also provides great opportunities for hopefully likewise commentary. I seriously can't recall her scenes without laughing. And it's not her stunt double that I've watched. I've even watched her videos when training how to use swords. And her face is stiff too. Let me know the next time she has fluidity and RANGE in her acting and I'll watch. If I'm wrong on the facial expressions, I'll admit it.

Re Dorne, yea I'm going to keep using the Charlie's Angels(CA) reference. It just seems to fit. Again a show with some light heartedness/good times. Not necessarily GoT material, but hey, I don't think the show runners are going for that down there--lol.

How were the #s?


Mike V. said...

Red Priest - he was rallying the former slaves in Meereen...that their queen had abandoned them and it was time to stand up for themselves or something like that. Tyrion and Varys observed it.

Brienne - There's no converting you. But the stiffness is part of the character that GRRM flushed out in his book. She's an awkward woman and she's supposed to be.

Dorne - I don't know what else to say about it other than "HOT MESS"

#s were good...over 10 million viewers including streaming outlets. (which stream the episode live while it airs on HBO)

Pure traditional Nielsen numbers were down slightly but I think that's because of the increase in streaming. There is a small percentage of BOOK readers that claim they will not watch the show until the next book is out. I doubt that affected the ratings too much. (BTW....apparently Melissandre's age was referenced in the books and the show (hinted at in the show) before...and was discussed with that reveal is canon to the books)

We should keep in mind that season premieres are generally not the best episodes of thrones...they serve a role in setting things up and putting pieces in place. By that standard, this one had a lot more going on than usual...but still felt the burden of moving ieces into place.

Mike V. said...

Here's the article on the ratings:

Anonymous said...

I did not recognize him as a red priest. Interesting.

The thing about streaming is they can add those numbers as show runners, they know the streaming numbers. So, it shouldn't be a guessing game. Anyone who streams has their IP address captured by the streamer.

I would say the S1 premiere ep was much better.


Mike V. said...

Season 1 is a little different. That was establishing the entire world of Game of Thrones...and yes they spent a lot of time on it....reshot it (if you've rewatched as much as I have you can see the difference in hair styles between scenes) and it's amazing.

Mike V. said...

Interview with actor who plays Bran:

Anonymous said...

From Bran link.

So, they're calling it the Great War. Sounded like we could be in for some good stuff.


Anonymous said...

OK, so from the Bran link, I clicked on this. Some really HUGE clues. Maybe a LS revival? Maybe for JS? How can an ep be bad with Ian McShane-lol.


Mike V. said...

Yeah apparently Ian mcshane spoiled thing a in an interview because he just didn't care lol I have stayed away from it. We'll see!

MJ said...

Glad I am not the only one sho did not pick up on him being a red priest. LOL

Sansa was actually rescued byt Theon - she would not have left without him. Then both of them were rescued by Brienne.

Arya - she is totally controlled by the House Black/White - whatever they are called and is abiding by their rules or being punished by them for not following them. She went out on her own and killed someone from HER list - and was blinded by it. So right now - she is not a Woman of Power at all in my book. Just saying.