Monday, May 11, 2015

Game of Thrones: Season 5 Episode 5 - Kill the Boy

Hello all and welcome back to our Game of Thrones Season 5 coverage!  We continue to mix in a little bit of the book with brand new territory for the show.  And it continues to be interesting to me!  There are plenty of different opinions floating around the world with TV Only Viewers and Book Readers on the season.  I've mentioned various times that I'm not a book purist by any means, especially when it comes to the most recent 2 books which we're covering now.  I think the show runners are doing their best to be faithful to George R. R. Martin's work, while making the series as a whole still consumable for television audiences.  They're certainly keeping us on our toes and I'm interested to see where they go.

I'll still keep our standard disclaimer here that I have read all of the Song of Ice and Fire books that are currently released.  I will only compare to the books when it's clear that we've covered it on the show or will not be covering it.  In the comments, any book spoilers/speculation should be noted as such before commenting.

With that, let's dive in!

Long story short, Dany loses one of her trusted advisors and has to gain the courage to come up with her own plans.

  • RIP Ser Barristan once again.  Dany called up all of the leaders of great families in Meereen, including Hizdar and brought them before her dragons to put fear into them and potentially the Sons of the Harpy.  It was an awesome scene.  The dragons looked amazing and totally real (if Dragons were real).  
  • Grey Worm survived!  He was out for 3 days, but it was enough time to realize he actually does have feelings for Missendi.  They had a little smooching.  Not much else they can do! 
  • Dany ended up asking Missendi for council as Daario wants to destroy the city until they kill all the Sons of Harpy.  (yep, she needs Tyrion and Jorah back!)  Missendi spoke to her observations that Dany listened to her council and relied on them, but sometimes made better decisions when she took their advice and came up with her own plan.  
  • And that she did.  She decided to reopen the fighting pits to honor the traditions of the city.  She also has decided she will marry one of the leaders of great families.  In other words, Hizdar and Dany will marry.   And yes, this actually does happen in the books, but man was it drawn out for an entire novel and was not Dany's idea in the books (not that I recall).   I'm sure we'll get some Daario jealousy in there.   But, it's clearly a business transaction to her, just as we see Ramsay speaking of Sansa's marriage.  

Castle Black
Lots of stuff going on here.  Jon has a big decision to make that will divide the Night's Watch.  Maester Aemon is rambling off some information.  Sam is discussing longing to become a maester.  Stannis prepares to march south on Winterfell.
  • Sam read Maester Aemon (Targaryan) some mail from a raven discussing an update on Dany.  How she refuses to leave Slaver's Bay until the dust is settled from her liberation.  Aemon is ill and started sharing some truths about his feelings.  About how Dany is soon going to be the only Targaryan left in the world which is a terrible thing.  Cue Jon entering the room.
  • Jon is looking for some advice from the dying man about a decision he needs to make.  Aemon's advice was that it doesn't matter what his plan is, just to do it.  "Kill the boy and become the man" and find the strength to do what needs to be done. 
  • Jon has a negotiation with Tormund about bringing the free folk (wildlings) through the gate for protection from the White Walkers.  But, his plan is also that they would fight the threat together when the time comes.  Jon talks about the Night's Watch being a shield guarding the realms of men for 8000 years and that they've been doing it wrong.  The Free Folk are men too and belong under their protection.   Tormund needs some convincing but eventually agrees.  But not without his own demands.   We find out that most of the free folk that survived Stannis's raid have taken refuge North of the Wall at Hardhome.  Jon has access to Stannis's fleet and will send 10 ships with 9 of his men to bring the wildlings back to the wall.  Tormund demands that Jon is one of those men and he accepts.     From a book perspective, this is a little bit of a difference.  Jon does send men to Hardhome to recruit the wildlings, but he isn't one of them in the books.  This is a chance for a big season set piece for Jon though.  
  • Jon lets the people of the Night's Watch know his plan and it was met with almost universal disagreement.  Sam stayed by Jon's side speaking of THE GIFT as a good place for the wilding to settle south of the Wall.  Even Dolores Ed spoke out against Jon bringing up good reasons.  They killed Grenn, Pyp and 50 other brothers.  Jon listened to all of the complaints and then stated the willings are still better than the army of the dead heading this way.  
  • Ollie's family and townsfolk were killed by wildlings last season in pretty brutal fashion.   He is not thrilled with Jon's turn of events either.  Jon pretty much says he understands, but WINTER IS COMING!  They're keeping this made up character around for a reason.  Best keep an eye on him.   
  • Gilly and Sam have a discussion on the largest libraries of the world.  Sam talks of his lifelong desire to go to Oldtown and become a maester at the citadel.  But, he also said if he didn't join the Night's Watch he wouldn't have met Gilly.   There's potentially a book plot at play here or they could be just acknowledging a book plot without actually doing it.  
  • Stannis came in and spoke to Sam about the White Walker he killed and dragon glass.  We learn that they have much of this at Dragonstone  They both do not understand why it works and Sam has been studying.  He knows the Children of the Forest used to hunt with it.   Stannis told Sam to keep reading. 
  • Stannis and Davos have a discussion about waiting for Jon Snow to return with the wildlings to help with their invasion.   Stannis says there is no time with Winter looming. He also wasn't totally certain Jon would return.   In a change from the books, Stannis is bringing Shireen, Selyse and Mellisandre with him.  I actually don't remember if his family came or not, but I"m fairly certain Mellisandre stayed at the wall because of her interest in Snow.  With Jon sailing to Hardhome, it probably didn't make sense to keep her there.  
  • Shireen discusses wanting to go to the crypt of Winterfell because the old kings and queens are buried there.  It was just interesting that she mentioned that, so I figured I should call it out.  
  • Jon and Stannis have one last conversation.  Jon promised Stannis would get his ships back.  He thanked Stannis for his help and then they marched off.  Mellisandre and Jon exchanged one more glance.  
  • Brienne and Pod are just outside of Winterfell at an inn.  Brienne stays determined to keep her safe.  She spoke to the innkeeper about his loyalty to the Starks.  She seemed to have convinced him about her oath to protect Sansa.   She was hoping to pass word to Sansa through "The North Remembers" folk that she's not alone.  It's possible she succeeded, but it's tough to tell in this episode.    
This episode basically reminded us of how awful Ramsay Bolton is, not that we needed much reminding! 
  • Ramsay and Miranda have a whole discussion about how they were going to get married when he was still a bastard.  Ramsay speaks to family obligation now that he's a Bolton, but also how Miranda is still his.  He also spoke of what he'd do to her if he got bored with her.  So, then they have some rough sexy time.
  • Sansa got a "North Remembers" message once again and was told she's not alone and to go to the broken tower.  The tower seems to be where Bran was pushed out the window.  When she got there though, Miranda was there trying to strike up a friendship.  I couldn't tell if this was in response to Ramsay's comments or if she's just pretending to strike up the friendship.  In either case she made Sansa aware that Theon Greyjoy is residing in Winterfell and sleeping with the dogs.   (This was the case in the books for Theon/Reek as well)   That is something Ramsay didn't want Sansa to be aware of.  Theon confesses to Ramsay that Sansa saw him.  The suspenseful scene/music led us to believe Ramsay would do some other unforgivable act to Theon, but he forgives him instead.  
  • Then came the most awkward dinner in Westerosian history.  Roose, Walda, Ramsay and Sansa sat down for dinner in Winterfell.  Basically it was a setting for Ramsay to show everyone how awful a person he is yet again, but for Sansa to realize it now too.  He brought out Theon and forced him to confess to the murders of Bran and Rickon (which the world still believes is the case).  Theon does confess, but you can tell he's conflicted with telling Sansa this lie.  Granted, he still did murder 2 kids to make it appear like it was Bran and Rickon.   He then went as far as to make Theon be the one to walk Sansa down the aisle at their wedding since she's the "closest to kin she has" at this point.  Ouch.   He also used the line "The North Remembers" which is usually in reference to the Red Wedding, which the Boltons were a root cause for.  Poor Sansa.  
  • Then Walda gets her time to shine.  First she tells Sansa that she knows it must be difficult being in a strange place.  This is hysterical since it's Sansa's home (which she acknowledges).   Then she goes and announces that she's pregnant with most likely a boy.  This makes Ramsay uneasy.  For the record, I do not recall this from the books. 
  • Roose was certainly unhappy with Ramsay's dinner table antics.  But, he also had a scene similar to Stannis last week where he always knew Ramsay was his son and tried to put him at ease that he will always be a Bolton even if he has a true heir.   Of course he also discussed how Ramsay is the product of a murder/rape situation which was pretty brutal to hear about! 
  • Roose knows Stannis will march south soon and Ramsay promises to help him defend The North.     

Tyrion and Jorah row through Valyria.  It is the ancestral home of the Targaryan family.  It was an advanced culture and town that suffered a cataclysmic event known as the Doom of Valyria.  We've heard reference to the language and the steel that they make (Ned Stak's sword ICE was valyrian steel which was melted down to make Oathkeeper and Joffrey's wedding present.  Jon Snow's sword is valyrian steel as well)  

This setting should have come as a surprise to book readers as it was never a setting in the books, as of yet, but it was pretty awesome to see. 
  • Tyrion/Jorah are slowly bonding over their journey.  This was an opportunity for a visual and audible brain dump of Valyria.  They spoke of how the DOOM still haunts it.  How the flames even burned up the dragons.  Jorah almost spoke in poetic verse when he talked of its history which led to Tyrion offering to clap if he could be freed of restraints.    
  • For the record, I double checked the wiki for Valyria.  Since it was never used in the books, it's safe to read this link for background info.  Just be careful clicking on any links to other wiki pages!  Where are we?  
  • Then, Tyrion gets a first hand look at Drogon.  He has flown pretty far from Meereen to be in Valyria.  But it was a majestical scene and Tyrion stared in disbelief.   While that encounter was NOT in the books, the encounter with the Stonemen was! 
  • A large struggle with the greyscale outcasts ensued.  It was pretty darn creepy and I thought for a second that we were going to end on a fade to black while Tyrion was under water.   We found out it was just for effect as Jorah rescued him and brought him to shore.   They both declined being touched by the inflicted.  They set up camp and Jorah speaks of their plans to walk until they find a fishing village for another boat, or they have an even longer walk ahead. 
  • What Jorah didn't reveal to Tyrion was that he certainly had been touched by a stone man and now has greyscale spreading on his arm.  OH NO!!! 
This episode may go down as THE MOST different from the books as we have gotten yet.  Stonemen were in the books.  Jon and Dany's plans were in the books but twists in all different directions.  Jonah having Greyscale??  Totally new.  Things are getting interesting for all show viewers.  It's scary, but it's also exciting to see where they'll go.  I'm sure this episode will have its share of detractors for another episode in a "boring" season, but I'm finding all of the setup very intriguing so far.   

I forgot to do this in the beginning but here are the EW links in case you wanted to read more:
Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and I'll see you next week! 


MJ said...

Is Stannis finally going somewhre ? LOL Wow ! I wanted Missandre to peek and see if both pillar and stones were taken ! They made me wonder - it's not my fault ! LOL And haven't we all known all along that Jon was going to ask Red Beard (can't think of his name) to lead the Wildings and fight with him ? Best thing - the awesome shot of the two dragons tearing apart that poor guy and burning him to death ! Kept wondering why they were focusing on the girls face and her disease - now Jorah has it. Just my early thoughts. More later.

Anonymous said...

MIke, Thanks again.

OK, so I'm real close to calling this ep a waste of my time. I know that sounds harsh but if not for the shots of Valyria(which I brought up last week as being important to me) it probably would be that bad. BTW, I think Drogon is at Valyria as it's an ancestoral home. YEs, MJ, FINALLY Stannis leaves. Isn't it leftovers and guests that start smelling badly after 3 days--lol. The greyscale thing I mentioned last week as kind of bugging me as to why they're making it such a big deal. It's not in the books as a big deal, at least that I can find. I kind of expected Jorah to cut his arm off to get rid of the greyscale.

So, red beard and Jon reach an agreement to go get the free folk and then they just keep hanging around, doesn't make sense to waste time. I wish they had set sail to Hardhome to generate some action.

I thought the Ramsay stuff was awful re Sansa. And I thought Sansa looked weak vs what I had expected. If they don't fix this storyline, I'm going to just fast forward through that c**p or not watch that ep altogether. I will admit that the Ramsay/Roose conversations were interesting as it could be setting up internal house Bolton conflict.

It's interesting to me that the ep that may be the furthest away from the books is also just about the worst to watch. I'm not saying that because of being a book purist. But, just as a TV viewer, there wasn't much in the ep to COMPEL me to watch. I mean, most all was stuff we knew was happening anyway. For example, what did the Brienne scene do for the storyline that we didn't already know? To me for a show supposedly struggling with too much material to condense they are wasting screen time. Another example, is the stuff with Greyworm where he confessed to being scared. Instead of that why aren't we seeing more of Arya in Bravos or Varys or some other character or plotline we are more interested in?

BTW, when I think of Selmy and Mance being killed off the show, I recall what my daughter said when I told her I was watching GoT--"isn't that the show where all the good actors get killed off?" LOL. It's a good thing they keep bringing in other great actors.


Mike V. said...

LOL on Stannis. I'm very interested to see if they leave his story off the same way it's left in the books. If so, the fact that it took him 5 episodes to move might make more sense. That's as vague and as descriptive as I can be! :)

Totally with you on Missendi. They made us wonder, now we're all curious! lol

I think there were hints at it with Stannis that Stannis wanted the wildlings to fight with him. Jon really wants to bring them down for protection from the walkers...and possibly for help to defend against them. But, it sounds like Stannis is on board with that threat as well.

Dragon CGI has been amazing from day 1 but it keeps getting better. tearing apart that dude was amazingly detailed.

Greyscale - Yeah, book readers were wondering why there was such a focus on it. In a lot of the podcasts I listen to, they speculated that Jorah and Tyrion must be coming into contact with the Stone men soon. Something I think most people assumed would be taken out. I actually forgot about it until they brought it up last week. I guess it is a key thing to know that Stannis did find a cure for Shireen. So, maybe there's hope for Jorah!

Mike V. said...

I thought the same thing about Drogon.

I think there's more mention of greyscale in the books than you think. A lot of A Dance With Dragons discussed it. I felt like half of Tyrion's journey down the Royne they were talking about greyscale. lol Interesting idea with Jorah! But, I agree, the show really focused on it more than anyone thought they would.

I'm guessing...and really don't know but I'm thinking Hardhome will be Jon's climactic finish to his story this season. I would think anything that may have happened at Castle Black in the books could happen there instead. Just a thought without getting too book spoilery.

I don't think Sansa looked weak. I mean...I was scared for her in the kennel! lol But, she seemed to hold her own against the Boltons. I loved her line about it being her home just the people being different. lol Yeah the Bolton conflict was interesting.

The Brienne scene just showed a way of her getting information to Sansa. I think they're really committing to the idea of focusing on just a few storylines per episode now. They started it last year and it works well. If you start pulling in Arya for a minute here and other people for a minute there it's hard to get invested. Brienne/Podrick was informing the Winterfell drama so it made sense to include it. Arya will be focused in next week's episode.

As for Varys, maybe you forget but he was missing in the books for a long time after Tyrion killed Tywin. He makes his surprising return much later in in ADWD. I wonder if they're going to do that scene or not.

lol on the good actors getting killed off. Too true!

I get it that this episode wasn't too exciting but it certainly provided a lot of exposition of where people are going to be heading in the 2nd half of the season. I think we got spoiled with the past 2 seasons because the book had so many big moments in book 3 that it made it easy to have exciting seasons throughout. They're building towards stuff in this season. I still enjoy the momentum building.

MJ said...

LOL on dragons looking real ! At least we don't have to hear Dany state no more fight club. That guy Hizdar's face was classic when Dani claimed she was marrying him. From what they were saying I take it that Valyria fell due to some disaster - almost made me think of a volcano. (just read your recap and see it was called Doom). I also thought it was ending with Tyrion being dragged under. Really Ramsey - feeling threatened by a baby that is not even born yet ? Loved Sansa's smirk over it though. But that didn't last long since now Reek is giving her away. Could she not just say no ? Was hysterical when Walda Frey Bolton remarks about being in a strange place. But yikes - sitting down to dinner with them man who killed your mother and brother, woman related to the one who set that up, and being served by the person you think killed your other 2 brothers. I have to say the title of this ep made me nervous - glad it was really just grow up and grow a pair kind of thing. I was glad Jon pointed out that not only the Wildings men and so in need of Night Watch protection as well - but that if they leave them out there they are only going to increase the numbers of the White Walkers. Tyrion was also touched - but looked like through his clothes or shoe. Does that help keep Greyscale away then ?

SOme other site laughingly said it would take Stannis about 3 eps to get sout to Winterfel equaling a battle episode 9.

Richard - we are reversed this week. LOL I was bored last week but this week was more interesting for me.

I felt tension ratcheting up in several areas finally. And several awesome dragon scenes.

Anonymous said...

MJ, From what I know, only Theon had his pilar taken. Unsullied I think the stones only. I was kind of wondering if they were going to show her moving her hand down to his private area.


Mike V. said...

Yeah, I think Tyrion is okay. I think it has to be touching the skin.

You never know with the name of the episode. It could be one thing and mean something entirely else by the end of the season. But, yeah it seemed pretty clear it was just referring to Jon becoming a man.

Funny on Stannis taking forever to march on Winterfell. Probably not out of the realm of possibilities for an episode 9, though they did not hire their battle director for this season so i'm interested to see where they go with it. I also can't say where book 5 left Stannis off just yet! :) But it'll be nice at the end of this season to stop having to speak in riddles. We'll all be guessing unless they introduce some other storylines from the book next season.

There's a couple tricks they could pull out of their sleeves.
I honestly have no idea about the pillar/stones from what was described in the books...but easily could forget. It certainly seemed clear what they did to Theon though! lol

Mike V. said...


Richard, it was tough to bring this up in the recap. Do we think that the whole Maester stuff was a setup for Sam to go to Oldtown? Or do we think it was acknowledging the storyline and he's not actually going to go? Even the "keep reading" line by Stannis seems to indicate he's going to get his wish to become a maester. He might just not be able to go to Oldtown. Then again, even Jaime referred to Oldtown earlier this season too. I just feel he would've already been on his way if he was going. Plus, we know Jaquen isn't there either like he was in the books.

Also, could it have been more obvious with Aemon saying 1 Targaryen left standing and then Jon enters the room? lol

Anonymous said...

I am glad they keep reminding us about obsidien/dragon glass and White Walkers!! Now if we could just get an ep with both in it with some good screen time!

*********************8book spoilers********************************

Yea on JOn walking in right after Aemon talks about Targaryans.

I wrote a long response on Sam and then when I submitted it was erased since I hadn't clicked on anonymous, ugh. This one will be shorter.

I am somewhat believing we'll see Sam become a Maester, but not so sure about Old Town.

Hardhome was built to do more than a couple of quick shots, so Jon will be up there a while. It's possible that with him gone and Sam nothing to do at CB that Jon sends him to Old Town, particularly now that the foundation has been layed for the show.

It's either going to be Jon sending him or after Jon is dead that would be likely someone else sending Sam. He really couldn't go on his own as that would be desertion and so make it hard to be a Maester.

Wouldn't he have to go through or near Winterfell to get to Old Towne?

I don't think we'll see a lot of Stannis in the next 5 eps. I think we'll see more Dorne and Hardhome stuff. Although maybe not as much as first thought. I would love to see Stannis take Winterfell this season. That would be awesome given the otherwise measured season.


Mike V. said...

*****************BOOK/SHOW SPECULATION**********************

In the books, Sam sailed through Braavos with Gilly and Aemon. I think he ran into Arya too. I have to look at the map again but I thought Oldtown was West of King's Landing. It might be and maybe water is the best way to get there. Sail down the narrow sea and cut west past KL. You bring up good points. IF no one is at Castle Black he may send him away next week or something.

I agree on Stannis. I really think we'll end in the same place we did in the books. Snows coming down and the army is marching through it. They basically got buried in the snow. lol But since there's no big battle director i don't see that happening this year.

I think instead we're going to have Sansa escaping with Theon...and I'm going to guess Brienne/Pod take the plance of Mance and his spearwives or whatever they were. Apparently the actor playing Pod is a singer/musician so he might pose as one. lol

So for big 2nd half set pieces we have Hard Home, Drogon attacking the fighting pits, Operation: Escape Winterfell....and the public humiliation of Cersei. Something in Dorne too. lol

I saw some predictions that Areo Hotah (Doran's right hand man) will probably chop off Bronn's head which would coincide with something he did in the books to another character. That will be awful!

Anonymous said...

LOL, even on a bad ep you're getting me involved!

****************************book spoilers*********************

I have predicted it likely that Bronn would die too-lol.

I checked earlier before responding and yea Old Town is in SW Westeros on a bay. So, Jon may steal a ship and sail there or send him there.

Sansa and Theon escaping is very possible. I just don't like that Sansa needs saving.

That wouldn't be a good ending for Pod! So, would Brienne be held captive? Wouldn't that be kind of worthless, I mean no one really cares about her that is still alive. Of course Stannis and her MAY have a fight? I could see Sansa, Theon and Brienne escaping and end up finding Stannis?


Anonymous said...

*******************book stuff****************

Doesn't Tyrion get greyscale?
It can be cured but I'm not sure how many know?

BTW, when do you think we'll see RS?


Anonymous said...

****************book spoilers****************

dragon glass came from the valeryan doom. I wonder if that is somehow tied to what Sam was working on.


Mike V. said...

Richard it's not a bad episode!! lol It's just not what you were looking for. After all 10 air, you'll know it was a necessary "evil" if that's what you want to call it. :)

*********BOOK STUFF/SPECULATION****************

Yeah we talked about the Bronn stuff here, but this theory was very detailed based on a story from the books about another character that went to get Myrcella. lol

I could see Jon and crew and Sam heading to Eastwatch By the Sea and then Sam departing for Oldtown with Aemon and Gilly...and Jon heading north to Hardhome (ahhh GRRM with his location names...nothing left to the imagination lol) Of course, part of Sam's journey was to get Mance's baby out of harm's way...but it could solely be to get Gilly out of the north and for Sam to learn as much as he can to face the walkers.

I can see the Sansa/Theon stuff going down where they help each other out and it's not necessarily that she needs saving.

I don't think Tyrion has greyscale in the books. I quick wiki could find that out for sure. lol

The only thing I can think of with when we'll see RS is after the Q and before the T??? lol I have no idea what you're referring to. I even googled it but that didn't come up with much either. I mean Robb Stark is RS...but I don't think that's what you mean! lol

Interesting about dragonglass...i thought for sure that dragons made it lol But that makes sense that it comes from Valyria.

Mike V. said...

TV Book Club (EW)

Anonymous said...

****************8ook spoilers***************

Hey, I"m taking credit for calling the Bronn death if it happens because no one made that call before I did in my own little world--lol. I'll bet if you check the dates, the guy you are referencing came after my posts. Mike, I think he robbed that idea from your website!! The motivations for his death, I didn't address really. But, if this is about Myrcella being injured and used by the Martell's, that's all good. The thing is, how does Jaime fit into that story? He likely wouldn't cooberate his daughters lie given her young age.

RS--Robert Strong-lol. I'm guessing ep8 unless the Cersei stuff is viewed as an ep9 or 10 deal?

I can see Sam going to Old Town as you outlined, at least somehow similar. Aemon might give Sam a letter for Old Town, not sure he can make the trip nor want to leave CB with Jon and Sam gone??

Yea, I was checking into the dragon glass and it was created when the doom of valyria happened. It rained down from the volcanoes, etc. There is still a small part of me that thinks it possible that the White Walkers may not be altogether bad from that theory we read of last week. And if that's true, maybe the doom of valyeria happened in part because of the Targeryan rule. ie, maybe the Targeryans are the source of some of the evil in the GoT world? They had mad kings and married each other, just saying not bad for conversation.

MJ said...

Well thank goodness I wasn't the only one wondering about that !

So - this season is covering 2 books - and then there are no more that are out yet to read before next season ?

Mike V. said...

BTW that book article gets into your greyscale questions on who contracted it in the books or who didn't.

************************BOOK SPOILERS*************************

Well it was a girl on a podcast with the theory, but maybe she reads my little known blog! lol

I remember myrcella's ear thing happening, but I pretty much forget how the story turned out after I may have to brush up! lol

Ahhh Robert Strong...I think you said RS last year too and I had no idea what you were saying. lol Yeah I'm sure he'll be surfacing by the end of the season.

Possible with Aemon. No need to drag him along. But he did say he was cold so maybe Jon is going to send him South to get warm. lol

Interesting theory on the Targaryans. I like how this article I just linked to pretty much just outlined the stonemen as the Essos version of wights too.

Based on the theory you shared of Jon with the white walkers last week that certainly could be an interesting twist. Seems like something GRRM would do. Make us root for the villain while the hero was actually what we thought was the ultimate big bad. lol

Mike V. said...

FYI - It was the character named Griff (on Tyrion's journey) in the books that got greyscale instead of Jorah.

Anonymous said...

******************book spoilers&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

My last post disappeared, hate when that happens.

So, I did my homework and read the ew article you referenced.

Very interesting on greyscale breaking out in Mereen, that make sense to me.

I didn't see anything about Dorne or Bronn in the article??

They had several good ideas about where the story is going and agree with us that Sam is likely headed to OldTown.

They seem a lot more pro Brienne than myself.

ONe other note about valyria this ep. YOu hopefully recall that a few eps ago I said if I were Dany I would conquer Esos first due in part to valyria being ancestoral home. I still believe that and maybe even moreso now to regain some of the majesty that was valyria. Especially when Tyrion said, when will we be able to build cities like this again.

Those scenes with Tyrion really brought back memories of studying Rome and the middle ages. Rome's engineers were amazing.

IF the above comparison can be made and further IF there is some parallel with GoT and Vikings it is with the time frames, roughly middle ages. It was Christianity that in large part brought the Vikings into civilization of the Europeans. Many argue that it was Charlemegne's use of Christianity that propelled the Europeans out of the dark ages and into the middle ages. And you've seen references of him in Vikings. So, that makes me wonder with all the religious stuff we had a few eps ago if religion will play a somewhat parallel role in GoT bringing the civilizations forward? Please note that I'm not saying the TV show Vikings as much as using your watching the TV show to relate to the real Vikings.


Mike V. said...


The Bronn stuff was from a podcast I listen to...which I listen to several now:

After Buzz TV: Game of Thrones
Hollywood Prospectus (Grantland Pop Culture)
A Cast of Kings (non book spoilery recap of ep)
A Storm of Spoilers (book discussion included)

It was that 4th one where the Bronn stuff was predicted.

They discussed maybe Sam goiong to OldTown NEXT season. Which is possible...he just had gotten there by the end of AFFC, so it would sync up.

You are the only one that's anti-brienne that I know of! Did I mention the Chrome Trooper in Star Wars 7 is Gwendoline Christie? People apparently had predicted that...I had no idea. lol Still no idea what her role is or what side she is on.

I do recall your comments about Dany and her ancestral home which seems to be coming up a lot lately. It would be interesting if she conquered ESSOS first, but I don't know if Essos is in need of conquering. I guess she's already taken care of slaver's bay even though Astaphor and Yunkai revolt in the books.

I wonder how much ground GRRM can cover in 2 more books...and the show can cover in 20 more episodes.

I can see the Rome relations to Valyria....I was thinking more the lost city of Atlantis and their supposed advanced civilization.

interesting comparisons to the Vikings/European advancement and the show. I really don't see this show/book tackling the advancement of technology. Granted...if they were able to develop cell phones they could certainy spare some ravens and their unreliable transport system! lol

Anonymous said...

************book spoilers***********

WOW, I had no idea those places existed. But, I don't have time to listen to pod casts. If I listened to one, which would be the best?

LOL on cell phone/ ravens. Yea, the big deal would be Bravos I think.

Antlantis was mentioned by several I have found out lately. The only thing with me is the archway they went through looks just like a Roman viaduct. And Atlantis's existence has always been a question mark vs Rome is real with tangible proof.

I'm betting on the religion comparison to come into play. Particularly how some say Charlemegne used Christianity. That just seems to work with how I understand GRRM and history.


Mike V. said...

I don't think we're in spoiler territory right now as much as speculation lol

Podcasts: They're basically what I do on my commutes to and from work. I stream them through my podcast app on my phone. I barely listen to anything BUT podcasts these days. (Nerdist is another one that's great for 1 hour discussions with all sorts of celebs)

- If you really want to get into book discussion probably A Storm of Spoilers is the best bet.

- After Buzz is my least favorite but it's the one that's available first. (I think they record it live right after the episode airs)

- Hollywood -> They talk about all pop culture things and cover Mad Men too...they overly cynical and don't read the books but they're both loving the show this year. They're just an entertaining listen on a weekly basis for anything pop culture.

- Cast of Kings -> Good production. One guy hasn't read the books and the girl has (she's on A Storm of Spoilers too so they're good companion pieces) but she doesn't spoil. She pretty much adds insight like I do in my recaps.

I get what you're saying on Rome. I just meant conceptually the idea of Atlantis and their advanced civilization being destroyed (real or not)...mirrors the concept of Valyria.

Yeah...the religion is definitely very present in the books and now even moreso on the show. I could definitely see it coming into play in the end game as well.

Anonymous said...

LOL,LOL,LOL No wonder you're a GOT expert!!!

I form my opinions and sometimes post as soon as your recap is up.
Then read your recap. That way my thoughts are purely mine.
Then I may or may not read WIC or TOTH or possibly even the EW link you provide.

That's pretty much it for me. And continuing to post here. I actually get the most from back and forth posting here as it helps/makes me think and possibly conduct some research.

There's a whole lot of junk out there(most of it!) and I don't have the time or patience to sift through it.

Next weeks title makes me think we'll see some Hardhome? But wouldn't that be a great title for a Theon recovery.

LOL on Brienne. Her clumsiness just turned me off after about the 3rd time watching her almost stumble and fall and having a hard time with the sword. But, keep in mind, I've got a professional athletic background so I notice movement details--lol. I must also be way out of step with most on which ep I'm supposed to like--lol.

LOL on Chrome Trooper, that name is just hilarious, especially for her. You could make a 5 minute stand up routine with that and her--lol. I better be good and stop there.


Anonymous said...

BTW, I might say that the actor that plays John Snow and the girl who played Ygritte are probably the most athletic. I just can't recall for sure over all the seasons.

ONe thing I've learned to look for with athleticism on TV is the wide angle vs close up shots. If they're always having to just use close up shots then that's usually a give away.

As I'm sitting here trying to recall the Jon Snow sword play scenes. They are wide angle showing his footwork, arms, thrusts, etc movements. Now that I"m thinking about it, Pedro was great probably the best or they snuck in a double.

Similar with Ygritte as I recall. I think Ygritte could run circles around Brienne AND she was a much better actress, IMHO-lol. Brienne has nothing to compare with Ygritte's, "You know nothing Jon Snow". Christi couldn't come close to delivering that line. So, yea I've talked myself back into not being on the Brienne band wagon-lol.

STiff knees/hips are a giveaway of problems. They need to be like springs/shocks--quick, graceful and fluid with a full range of motion.


Mike V. said...

Um I don't listen to any of those podcasts until after I write the recap! It's for my work commute. Helps pass the time. Don't discredit my book / show knowledge! Lol

Any theories I get from those sources I usually refer to it. I did stop reading hibberd though as you were right. It was influencing my writing. Lol

Chrome trooper was the fan name based on not having a name I think she has a name now but I forget.

I'm in my phone so I'll respond to other stuff later!

Anonymous said...

Chrome Trooper, OH NO. I was hoping it was real. It would have been great--lol.

Where's Disney's sense of humor.


Mike V. said...

Chrome Trooper - Oh I just remembered the might like it even better if you're going for cheese. It's Captain Phasma! LOL

Podcasts - So I was listening to A Cast of Kings this morning and they got to the Valyria segment. one of them talked about how fans compare this to Atlantis/Pompeii. Then the other guy said..."that's crazy because I immediately thought of the Roman Empire". lol Thought you'd appreciate.

You'll get no arguments from me that Kit Harrington and Rose Leslie have done phenomenal jobs on the show. But, I'd argue that Gwendoline Christie's approach is intentional for the character too. I believe MJ did the same thing.

I don't notice the close ups vs. wide shots as much as you though!

Anonymous said...

I really thought you were joking about Captain Phasma as a name. Then I looked it up and laughed!

Guys, I'm sorry but I haven't liked Portman in just about anything except Star Wars--lol. I thought her chemistry with the guy who played Anakin was OK, maybe even better? I really haven't found her a great actress in Thor stuff. I mean she's acceptable, but not compelling.

And if you note lately I've been using the word compelling a lot. The reason for that is it fits in what I have come to expect for a LEAD actor/actress. They need to compel me to spend my money to go see them in a movie, etc.

I have paid to see Thor currently. But with Portman as the titular character there's no one I know who would. Not my wife, daughter nor my son for example.


Mike V. said...

Portman - watch Beautiful Girls. She was just a teenager in that but she did a great job! That's one of my guilty pleasure movies I watch whenever I see it's on. lol But in Star Wars? Chemistry with Anakin??? oh my..... Granted Hayden was worse but this gem from Episode III "Anakin, you're breaking my heart. You're going down a path that I cannot follow" and then she died. lol I mean, i don't know how you act that line out but it was rough!

As for I don't think that would be a draw by itself. I don't remember one time that she's carried a movie by herself. And I'm not sure I see her as a super hero type. It would be a stretch. But a lot of people didn't see Heath Ledger as a joker (I personally thought it was great casting and couldn't wait to see what he'd do with it).

Anonymous said...

Totally agree about Ledger!

So, at least you see where I'm coming from as far as the rumors of her taking over Thor slot. To me, it's suicide for the franchise.

LOL, I actually like what she did there and got what it was about. It was his lack of love that killed her. That whole thing with her health was about love. It was their strong love that resulted in those kids.

As you know, Star Wars is ultimately a family love story following Annakin who really had no father but found a father figure in the dark side while being rejected by Yoda. It's a tragedy leading to healing. I thought she communicated her part of that well--lol.

But, I've always been good with the prequel eps, mostly.


Mike V. said...

Portman - So funny, I just said she hasn't carried a movie on her own and now it's just been announced she's going to star as Jackie Kennedy in a biopic. lol

I love the CONCEPT and STORY of the Trilogy and a lot of the action scenes hold up (the Battle of Naboo does not...looks like primitive CGI). But the dialogue and acting is painful. So I appreciate it as part of the Star Wars franchise, but they're certainly not my favorite of the 6 films. I had once thought Revenge of the Sith may have surpassed Return of the Jedi on my list, but then I watched it again after I finished CLONE WARS and ouch! lol "I wish i could just......WISH my feelings away but I can't!" "From my point of view the Jedi are evil!"

Obviously, the fact that I can quote these lines means that I've watched the movies enough times to nitpick them. lol So there is a love for the franchise, but a critical love!

Anonymous said...

Agree on Battle of Naboo overall. but come on those bubbles were just so cool--lol.

LOL on recalling lines!

So, I haven't seen all of the clone wars, just watched a few eps. Certainly haven't developed a negative view of the Jedi. But, I certainly don't have a very good feeling for them either, particularly after how poorly they treated Annakin. I always saw that Yoda belief of Annakin being dark kind of a circular reasoning thing on cause and effect. That is, if Yoda and other Jedi had embraced him, would he have turned to the dark side and associated father figure? I don't think so. I have NEVER been a big Yoda fan. I was VERY let down with his "great" fight in the prequels(forget which one)too.

Another big reason I don't compare the prequels so negatively is Carrie Fisher. I have always found her character/acting to be almost offensive in the show. Just downright rude and I don't think the character needed to be played that way with such negativity. Honestly I enjoy Portman's portrayal of Amadala MUCH more than Fishers of Leia, by far. Portman's portrayal was relateable whereas Fisher's seemed superficial. In addition to these portrayals, I have not like Fisher as much as Portman--lol.

I know, I keep digging that hole for myself and NO one is with me--lol. But, atleast I can justify why my drum sounds so differently--lol.


Anonymous said...

Star Wars. YOu know, one test I can't wait for you to do is with your kids. DON"T pollute their minds with which ones are better. Let them view them in an unbiased way and see which ones they like the best.

My kids view the prequels as kind of "theirs" vs the OLDER generation's movies.


Anonymous said...

My son thinks the storm troopers uniforms of the older movies are kind of cartoonish btw. That dern Blue Ray, just too much resolution.

Mike V. said...

SW - (This should be in our general discussion topic and not GoT! but whatever lol)
The Gungan Bubbles...oh's rough! lol
You were let down with Yoda's fight with Count Dooku? It was awesome! Of course, he fought Emperor Palpatine in Sith too. I certainly liked EMPIRE Yoda better than prequel Yoda but Yoda is still awesome!

I can't understand the Princess Leia hate at all. But to each his own!

I've already been showing my son the originals. He loves Empire the best so far because there's Snow in it. I did show him Phantom Menace and he wasn't too interested (smart kid! lol). But he is only 3. I have heard that kids do relate more to the prequels than the originals. But I didn't want to show him the originals first to pollute his's to get an unspoiled view of the big Darth Vader reveal. (Some recommend watching IV, V, then I, II, III as a flashback and conclude with VI....i'm traditional 4-6 then 1-3)

That's funny about your son considering they didn't make 1 clone trooper suit in the prequels. It was all CGI! lol (whereas in the originals, they were all people!)