Monday, November 10, 2014

TV Discussion: Week of 11/9/2014 - 11/15/2014

Hello fellow TV Addicts! As always, this is our place to discuss all non-recapped shows. See you in the comments!


Anonymous said...

Grimm--pretty good stuff and Trubl is working out better than I thought, although I would like to see her leave--lol. This problem with Nick is being dealt with but it sure is starting to drag on. Am I the only one who thought Renard's Mom looked to be the age of a possible sister!! And Renard lives, I must have missed an ep?? Adalind taken prisoner I totally missed somehow, but now she's out looking for her kid. I wonder if she'll come after Renard??

BTW, I've been commenting on some of the blacklist sites and those guys can get nuts! They discuss things like what scarves people are wearing--lol. And more crazy stuff for a show that's in the middle of what appears to be a rewrite due to it's success. BTW, BL is getting around 20 million with dvr+7!! Tonight is the last ep until Feb.

Hell on Wheels came back and it was pretty good. I think 2 more eps left. I hope they don't drag out the preacher lady stuff. Glad Sidney's dead!!


Mike V. said...

Grimm - Doesn't look like Trubel is leaving anytime soon, but yeah they're making it work. I agree the Nick problem is dragging on and I worry it'll be a season-long arc. If we're lucky, it'll be a half season. Meanwhile, at least they're making it interesting with the whole mind-meld thing with Adalind.

There was an ep last week, MJ and I commented on it in last week's thread. Renard was brought back by his mother by some snake-jumper cables. lol And Adalind showed up in scottland or wherever that castle is to get her baby after fulfilling her promise to degrimm Nick. And they told her they didn't have the baby and took her prisoner.

Blacklist - Rewrite??? Is that just an assumption? I think these shows are always designed for longevity and milking. It's a Network show that should be on for 22 episodes a season and it has like 1 or 2 ongoing story arcs. I did see those numbers, it's pretty crazy. Also crazy that people obsess over clothing. I remember when LOST got overanalyzed and people were looking into the color of clothes people were wearing. It turns out, there is actually some truth to that by the writers/designers, but it's nothing I normally focus on. lol

Hell on Wheels - Still not watching but I heard it got renewed for a final season and it sounds like it's getting a similar ending treatment of 2 halves worth of episodes split over time. (i.e. Breaking Bad, Mad Men)

Mike V. said...

ONCE - It's so funny how into this show my son is! lol Of course someone got frozen and shattered into ice cubes last night. LOL He asked, "what happened?" I said, "oh they're just playing with ice buddy"...he said, "I need them to play with ice again" lol yikes... So we saw the tale of the 3 sisters and the one survivor who requested for a whole town's memories to be erased....and we saw the Duke of WEASELTOWN in his youth. My wife called it the minute she saw him. (Of course, if you saw the movie Frozen, you'd understand lol) And now we know that Gold is out for World Domination...OUR world outside of Storybrooke. Of course, he could be just leading on the Snow Queen to get the upper hand. And Emma's powers have accelerated due to the Snow Queen's influence.

The show is ridiculous, but it's oddly become a family show for us on Sunday nights. One that we can watch while the kids refuse to sleep!! lol

Anonymous said...

LOL,LOL,LOL!!! The blacklist show runners are copying those guys at GoT--WHINING about how hard it is to produce!! So, they need a mid season break, seriously go to WORK, they call it WORK for a reason guys. Bunch of wimps! Anyway here's a link about the show runner and a fan Q&A tomorrow.

WELL, the rewrite is assumed by almost all serious fans as things are changing which otherwise don't make much sense. The problem is that several, including myself watch this show looking for clues and areas that deserve inspection/analysis. So, when they just kind of dismiss an otherwise important element such as ignoring Zoe's age then it makes the fun of looking for clues--worthless. At least until the assumed reset--lol. BUT, I kind of secretly hope the rewrite is done in a way that ties all these inconsistencies come together, we'll see.


Mike V. said...

Blacklist - I'd imagine trying to create 22 of these per season is tough. But, you're going to have to have hiatuses (small or large) regardless due to the length of time between September and May. They're following the traditional broadcast method, so who cares if they need more production time or what their excuse is? The result is a more consecutive episodes in a row for the end consumer. And of course, since you're a big fan of less downtime between seasons, you get a mini-hiatus, back from February to for summer, then Back in September. Unlike event programming such as Game of Thrones that is on for 10 weeks and off for 42 which has a much more intense production schedule than even the Blacklist, which I'm sure no one would argue.

Gotcha on the inconsistencies. I love that fans have just come up with a conspiracy theory that a massive rewrite for the show is in the works. The funny thing show is set in stone....they need to be open-ended enough to write towards what is clicking. So, I wouldn't say anything is really being rewritten as they're just writing towards different avenues than the fans expect. However, this casual fan of the show is not really noticing anything that "off" about the show. All I notice is what I'd notice on any procedural with a hint of ongoing story....they're milking it. Right now we're in November sweeps so we can expect big reveals...and since this is a mid-season finale, yeah I'm sure they're going to leave us on a bit of a shocker.

MJ said...

Grimm - I'm liking Trubel. I think Renard mentions how much work mom has had done. LOL Grimm does have a tendency to drag some stories a little too long though.

I hate the new model with long hiatus's - but it might help me get caught up. I figured out yesterday that on Sunday alone I tape 14 hours of tv. No wonder I can't catch up.

Mike V. said...

Sunday TV - yeah it's out of control and only going to be worse in the winter/spring. Half the stuff I'm recording on Sundays I'm not even watching...e.g.. Boardwalk Empire (missed final 2 seasons), Resurrection (never started), etc... We surprisingly are fitting in Brooklyn 99 though because our kids are still awake and we just put off Walking Dead until they're asleep. lol

I started recording The Comeback again, but I have no idea if we're going to really watch. We started to last night, but then it was so late we'd rather have the mindless Talking Dead on the background.

Hiatuses - I'm a fan now because of my current home-life situation. The less TV on on a night, the better! lol

Anonymous said...

Blacklist--I wouldn't say massive rewrite, just a rewrite to make the series longer--lol. I still think and hope that the long game will not change in the serialized stuff. I and many others wish they would do more of the serialized plots, but it seems like they want to milk some of those. You're right, tonight should have some reveals and some cliff hangers--lol.

After really getting into this and LOST--both way too much, I realize I like the idea of the book adaptations MUCH better than a direct to script production. Since authors have time to do their rewrites before publishing you can get a much more finished product that has the rough patches smoothed out. Of course you have the book to film adaptation problems, but you can certainly trust the overall plots and end results, at least in theory--lol.

LOL, there's almost nothing I watch on Sundays now except football. Monday is pretty full with 3 shows for us.

BTW, Batman had 120 eps in 3 seasons!!!! It wasn't always produced extremely well, but seriously that's a lot of eps. They milked it an entirely different way. And it's still in syndication!!


mj said...

Soa - cast on Conan tomorrow i think. After was dreadful. Only good part was Fbi lady

Hell Wheels- heard renewed for 5th season but that will be the last one

I never saw Comeback since they cancelled but am taping new season and will watch first one.

Only problem is that some new shows start during hiatus and then in Jan. Will prob check out new Heigl show replacing Blacklist

Mike V. said...

Blacklist - Well of course I want more serialization and shows like this tend to get forced down that path. (see: Fringe) But, in the beginning, networks want to milk the cash cow for all that it's worth. And there still is money in syndication. They could sell Blacklist after 100 episodes (maybe less) and channels could air them in whatever order without having to worry about continuity. And people can tune in and tune out without worrying about story (that holds true for the initial airing too) Once you go serialized your syndication value goes down and your viewer retention goes down.

I don't think I agree with book adaptations vs. original stories for TV. There are issues with Book Adaptations that stick too strictly to the book. You could have characters that really click with an audience and would make your show more interesting...but you need to kill them off because the book dictates it. I remember critics making a big deal out of Renly back in season 2 as an example. (I won't say what show I'm talking about for fear of spoiling for a casual passerby lol).

When the road is open in front of you, there literally are no rules except the ones you place on yourself. Really good writing teams would intentionally write themselves into corners that only their creative minds would be able to work themselves out of. If LOST was planned out ahead of time, I don't think we would've gotten the crazy episode of THE CONSTANT because their bible wouldn't have allowed them to include Time Travel into the story if they didn't think of that up front. And of course, they wrote to characters that clicked well...i.e. Henry Gale's short term stint that turned into a series defining role (you may recall him as Ben Linus). Breaking Bad is the ultimate example of a show where the writers had no idea where they were going with the story except the fact that Walk would go from Good to Bad....but that creative freedom allowed them to tell the perfect tale. Vince Gilligan was very open about things. They'd plant a big gun in episode 1 and he'd say "yep, I have no idea how I'm going to use it yet"....but by episode 16, it certainly was used and it was awesome. I know you didn't watch that one but I highly recommend it. Especially if you want to stick to this Book adaptation thing is better. :-)

I think there's room for both on television. Game of Thrones is an example of a book adaptation done VERY VERY well. And LOST is an example of a serialized story that was done very very well (I'll have words with the naysayers that suggest otherwise!). Then there's Blacklist. I really think it was designed for longevity. Now within that longevity they may realize they have something with this "Daughter" they're trying to stretch that as much as possible when they originally thought it would be a 12 episode thing. But, I don't think they went into the show hoping that it would only be 1 season long. lol Of course, maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying.

BATMAN is the perfect example of my point. SYNDICATION. There was no concept of an ongoing serialized story during those television days....except for the Saturday Morning Serials (recognize that term?)....which is what George Lucas was inspired by for Star Wars (hence the opening crawl). I'm generalizing...I don't know for sure that there wasn't serialized television back then in prime time, but i'm guessing most were beginning middle end stories within the hour. And in syndication you could watch them in any order. That is crazy about 120 episodes per season. I wonder what their production schedule was and how long a season was (in calendar months) It was a different time back then too!

SOA - Never made it to the FBI lady. lol

Ahh Heigl...the new David Caruso...leaving a hit show for movie stardom only to return to the small screen after middling success! lol

MJ said...

Sleepy - Succubi wasn't bad. I was liking Katrina with them and helping out. Can't they just plant a listening device at old Headless's place and let Katrina stay with them ? LOL Was laughing at Abby just stopping short at rolling her eyes at Katrina most of the episode.

No Blacklist - was tired last night and was afraid to watch the finale only half awake.

Heigl - LOL. I get your point but think she had a little more success then Caruso did. But I hear ya. I know there are a lot of haters out there - don't know what she did to deserve that. I didn't watch Greys so didn't really follow it.

Anonymous said...

Batman, 120 eps in 3 seasons, not one. Still crazy.

Hell on Wheels, so glad they'll get to close the storyline out. Last ep Durant told Bohanan that I'm the one who will be remembered for posterity, not you for building the trans continental railroad. He said it so that it wasn't like a bad thing, more realistic thing.

Blacklist, too much to say right now. But last night had some good and some bad. The stuff with Tom and Red was interesting, not sure how far back that goes. And Red wanted him killed.


Anonymous said...

Blacklist- A lot to ask for the audience to believe that REssler is helping Liz break the law. Especially after she's been treating him like crap all year bossing him around like some school kid.

The Tom working for Red thing is kind of nuts since he's the loyal soldier and Red wanted him dead just last season. Unless he's just come to work for him since. But that doesn't make sense as Tom's been under Liz's watch since then. It's things like this where I am beginning to feel like the audience is being jerked around. Some say that Red KNEW Liz wouldn't kill Tom. Keep in mind Red wanted to shoot Tom and was there to do it. If Red is some godlike omnipotent being, why is Fitch dead? Seriously, even I knew that if Fitch were dead, REd was in serious trouble--that was being said in several eps.

And the jetting back and forth to Russia in what looks like a few hours AND oh btw do some tracking and killing made me laugh, so cheesy.

Looking forward to the back to Russia stuff and finding out how Red is going to deal with the Alliance.


MJ said...

Sleepy - oh but how creepy that Katrina can see a lovely, healthy baby when she is near the crib with her necklace on. I miss Jenny - I know she is back next week but adding some Jenny/Abby/Hawley/Crane tension to the Abby/Ichabod/Katrina tension could have been awesome. Waxing poetic over the Bachelor was pretty funny though.

Mike V. said...

Batman - I got it. Not sure what I said but I understood lol

Watched blacklist and Gotham and most of sleepy. All day meetings today will comment later

Anonymous said...

Blacklist--some more analysis trying to make sense of the mess that the last ep made of previous eps between Tom and Red.

I really think we’ll see more of Tom as he’s become quite popular and so the writers gave him a tie with Red to make his character have much more interest going forward vs if it were only Berlin his character’s purpose would have been significantly reduced. This was therefore likely a change in Tom’s profile as an adjustment to the audience.


Mike V. said...

Blacklist - Yeah...considering what we were discussing around rewrites or whatever...I agree that there is no way that they planned on Tom and Red being in cahoots since day 1 of the show. But that just goes to the writers room writing on the fly and allowing for characters that click to have more to do in future episodes.

Kind of like when President Logan ended up being the bad guy in Emmy Award winning season 5 of 24. They definitely didn't start the season thinking that would be the case.

HOMELAND - AWFUL. The whole Brody thing/trick was so dumb. What were the writers thinking? If they faked his death...the fans would be furious...hallucination? Not much better! lol So glad it was renewed!

I'll comment on Sleepy when I'm finished the ep.

Anonymous said...

Blacklist, great Q&A with show's creator

Glad he has a known end game, but interesting if he'll be able to do it. And they adjust the script--lol. Of course they do. And did you notice how many questions on Tom!!! They can't kill that guy off now nor before.


Anonymous said...

Gotham, well pretty good again. And yet another Barbera exit--that girl just can't be satisfied, but we know they get hitched--I might say so long. Anyway, loved the catwoman girl showing up again. And that Bruce is learning to fight.

Scorpion was good to, better than last ep for sure. Interesting that the Dad is showing up. I"m actually glad that the show is trying to make a point of the need for a Dad who shows up vs a dead beat dad.


Mike V. said...

Blacklist - Thanks for the link. I scanned the Q&A, but good stuff. Yeah it's always nice to have an end game to march towards as long as it's flexible enough to adapt for change. As soon as they showed us Tom disappeared in the finale, I didn't think he was going anywhere! lol As long as the conspiracy keeps getting bigger and they make his involvement pivotal, he'll be safer and safer. lol

Gotham - Yeah, you know I didn't even think of future Gordon's wife being Barbara, so yeah I guess they will stick together. How many scenes has she had outside of that apartment? Right now she's just a wet blanket girlfriend. They need to give her more meaningful stuff to do or they probably introduced her too early. Could've been a more interesting story for Jim meeting her during his rise in Gotham PD.

Bruce/Catwoman advancements are fine...but it's going to be a very slow long arc for them. Same frustrations that came with Smallville. People just wanted clark to be superman already, but they stayed true to their word...and even in the season 10 series finale (yep, 10 years)....we never really saw Tom Welling wear the suit....we saw him be superman from afar. lol It'll be interesting to see how this Batman origin tale gets milked.

I have SOA comments...but will get to them when I have a chance!

Anonymous said...

Blacklist, yea the whole Tom has a past with Red thing(notice I'm not assuming worked for, but that is likely now) is a about that popular character staying relevant. If he didn't have a REd connection and only a Berlin connection then his storyline was quickly shutting down. So the Red connection gives his character some staying power.

But seriously, that was not the deal just several eps ago when Red was trying to kill him and many before that when Red and him had no knowledge of each other. For example if REd knew Tom for a while, then he could have easily found Berlin vs all the other many eps where we find Red searching for Berlin. It's a prime example of cheesy plotlines to me.


Mike V. said...

Blacklist - Agreed. It's a bit of a stretch unless they write towards it in the spring. Maybe while they're working together there was still animosity between the 2 of them. We don't know the details of their as long as they can explain it for the most part, it's a success. If they're just going for shock value without really thinking through the ramifications of their decision...then it could be a problem!

Mike V. said...

SOA - First of all, awesome episode! 2nd of all, I don't like this whole including Afterword as part of the episode on the DVR. You never know how long the episode is going to be! Fortunately, we timed it right to avoid commericals. It ended up coming in at like 1 hour 37 minutes. It's like a damn mini-movie each week. lol

So Jax finally knows!! And it came out because he told Abel who is real mother was. I'm surprised the reveal came so early, but with them tying up loose ends with all of these external conflicts, maybe it's time to point inwards now. The opening musical montage was pretty comical! Highlights being Juice in prison and WTH TIG! That whole Tig/venus thing started out as a joke in the 1st ever Venus scene and evolved into some political/social statement on society. lol At least Sutter mentioned on Afterword that in the wrong hands that could be very very cheesy. It was certainly well acted, but I don't necessarily know if it was needed for the SOA story. Certainly could've eliminted at least an hour from this 13 episode 50 hour season. :-) lol

I had a feeling that SOA was in on the whole Moses revenge plot and were baiting him. And then of course I knew exactly what Jax would do to him once he had the opportunity. eye, fingers, gun to head. And yikes it was graphic!

Back to Abel, trying to get Gemma arrested was pretty awesome.....looking forward to seeing how this all goes down!

Anonymous said...

Shield--better this last ep--lol. Does anyone think Ward is a good guy now?


Mike V. said...

Shield - As I've stated before. He's a main character on the show so I don't think the goal was ever to make him totally evil. They just layered him with a much needed edge and with more complexity. But we have to assume at some point this season he'll be working with shield again in some capacity.

I enjoyed the episode too!

MJ said...

Been so swamped at work don't even have time to read every one's comments. Hopefully tomorrow.

SOA - this show is just so awesome. I'd actually hoped/dreaded Abel being the one to out Gemma. But is jax going to believe it since Abel already lied about Gemma harming him ? Thinking he won't believe the kid at first. Was hard seeing what Abel did to hemself with that fork even knowing it wasn't real. And could the school not really tell just how fresh those cuts were ? Just saying. I just knew that something was gonna blow up when Moses went looking for the preachers family. I liked the character of Moses but he def got what he deserved. They really have mde Happy crazier then Tig these days - keeping a finger and all. Poor Juice - being raped by Marilyn Manson - LOL. Then having to sit there and listen to Manson read poetry. But even in solitary he can get to him ? I find it interesting that Leland was the only AB guy who had an issue with Jax being friendly with black persons. I really did think that Tyler had betrayed Jax for quite a while though. The whole Tig/Venus thing was just kinda awkward (the sex I mean) but both actors really were great in the break up/make up scene. I def picked up that Winsome looked just like Tara as discussed on the after show. But didn't Rat just decide last week that he's not a d**k ? Yet he's sleeping around like the rest of them.

Blacklist - what a surprise - Liz could not get rid of Tom and instead gave him every demand he made and let him go. As the
episode went on I said to myself that Tom better not be working for Red and sure enough ! And it kinda ticked me off - making me not like Red very much. Red weasles his way into Liz's life and spent the whole first season telling her she can't trust her husband - and that's because he's the one that hired Tom to be in her life. I feel a little cheated. Of course they could spin it that he paid Tom to get into Liz's life - but that Tom was not supposed to marry her or anything. But that is lame. And then why did Tom keep warning her not to trust Red if Red put him there? Another reason I did not like Red this week was that he snatches up Zoe to bring her to a dad she doesn't want to see then screws Berlin by getting her out with a new identity - not a care in the world that he has ruined her whole life. I'm sorry they killed Alan Fitch - though it was
ridiculous that a bunch of russians were able to pull off being our secret service. And after all of this they kill Berlin ? And when is Liz losing her job for directly disobeying the FBI over and over ? LOL They actually humanized Alan quite alot in the end - but 2017 ? what ? And I looked it up - a Fulcrum is like a hinge or something. Red is holding a hinge over them ?

MJ said...

Scandal - finally watched last week's and the previous one as well - I know it's a big part of the show - the Fitx/Livia romance - but it's getting rather tiring. Loved it that Olivia 'Rowaned' Tom. LOL But the Olivia/Fitz angst and the Fitz/Mellie angst is just the same thing over and over. But Abby and the VP's guy were actually kinda cute together.

Hmm - I think I am just a little grouchy today. LOL Just hating on everything.

Shield - pretty good episode. The guy with the 'map' tattooed was a little scary, as was using the Mind Machine. Rolled my
eyes at Skye not locking up Coulsen and instead getting put in. Scruffy Ward was hot - but like seeing clean Ward again. And like that he's out of prison too.

Homeland - don't think I ever got to comment on 2 weeks ago when they killed Ayan - damn ! That surprised me. As well as

Carrie being willing to kill Saul to get to this terrorist. Loved Saul and the muslim arguing muslim vs christian and when Saul
says I'm a jew it just shut him right up. Pretty crazy that this guy can now visit his family since he has a human shield. But
OMG - totally took me by surprise when Brody popped up. I was like - no way he is alive. LOL So I guess this Isi guy is gonna
be a good guy then ? I think yes cause he kept looking at the bad Isi chick when Carrie was talking to him outside the embassy. But Claire Danes just nails being crazy ! LOL

Mike V. said...

Scandal - VP's guy...aka Dude from Prison Break and from Shonda's Private Practice lol But yeah...they were kinda cute. Did she and Attorney General break up or something? I missed that if they did. Yeah, I could live without Fitz/Olivia drama.... Fitz/Mellie?? Naaa love that stuff. Anything that gives Mellie a chance to shine. She's been on fire this season. lol

Shield - No comment on Ward's appearances! lol

Homeland - Yeah I don't think we discussed it 2 weeks ago. I'm sure I just complained about the state of the show and then complained even more this week! lol I thought the Brody thing was ridiculous but you can search for my comment. :) I think Claire Danes nails being crazy because it may only partially be an act! They really have destroyed that character. This is not the same show we signed up for in season 1. Showtime has a habit of destroying good shows. Homeland, Dexter... I'm sure they'll somehow keep The Affair on the air for 10 years too (still haven't watched an episode lol) The Isi that the dude from Smash that was cradling Carrie at the end of the episode? The one she thought was Brody? He sure didn't seem too innocent..but I could be wrong. I'm beyond trying to rationalize what's going on on this show. I watch for the unintentional comedy now! Maybe they can sway be back before the end of the season.

AHS - Still watching. Not much else to say!

MF - Pretty funny stuff last night as usual.

Mike V. said...

SOA - Yeah, I'm sure Jax will do some investigating before believing Abel flat out. I thought it was kinda ridiculous that Abel cut himself AT school after Courtney Love already saw his bruises. Agreed that Moses was a good character. You can read my comments but I had a feeling the whole Moses plan was going to backfire too. Yeah...Rat's a mess! lol

Blacklist - Richard and commented on this confusion stuff of the Tom/Red partnership above. I think they can certainly spin it....but it's pretty clear this is a new development in the writers room and they have to backfill the details. There's no way this was the plan from the beginning! But, as long as they've thought it through and know how to make it work it should be okay. If they did it for shock value with no backing substance, they're in trouble!

I did forget to comment above about Berlin though. I believe I said on this blog a few times that Berlin won't be the big bad of the show as a whole and that there will be bigger fish to fry...he'll just have been a pawn in it. He was introduced as the season 1 villain which means there's a bigger SERIES arc at play...hence his rank on the blacklist. I can take a little pride in that! That's just due to my overexposure to shows like this. lol They are in it for the long haul, so there's always a bigger villian a bigger conspiracy until you get to stakes that pretty much impact the end of the world, universe or what have you. lol (exaggerating, but in LOST's case....not really!)

Fulcrum's crazy how many shows I've seen this word coming up in. I googled it too and tried to see why all of these shows are using it. Wasn't Fulcrum on Chuck too?

mj said...

Blacklist - to/from Russia - they Fringed it. Lol. Agree - they have changed the Tom plan cause its just not making sense

Homeland - i thought faux Brody was funny.

Gotham - i assumed earl on he marries Barbara cause later he has a daughter who is Barbara/Bat girl

Soa - agree annoying its recording as one big show. Yeah makingTig suddenly want to have sex with Venus came from no where. But i would not remove any other thing!

Shield - think Ward not wholly good or bad now. Purposely ambivalent

Fulcrum - it def was on Chuck. Lol

Mike V. said...

Blacklist - Nice on "fringing"it. They totally did! lol

Homeland - I certainly laughed, but maybe for the wrong reasons! lol

Gotham - Ahh I forgot/never knew the origins of Batgirl. lol I still think they could've approached that Barbara/Jim relationship better for TV. He could've met her and began to form a relationship with her. OF course, maybe they didn't really want that to take the focus away from the crime solving/batman evolving stuff. She just seems so useless on the show! lol

SOA - Agreed, this season has been very good even with the length of these episodes!

SHIELD - Yeah...agreed that he's purposefully ambivalent, but still helping out SHIELD making him still a protagonist of sorts.

mj said...

Longmire - rumors it could go to netflix