Saturday, April 28, 2012

Fringe: Season 4 Episode 20 - Worlds Apart

Hello my multi-dimensional friends!  We're here to recap one emotionally charged episode of Fringe.  But, first we have to take a brief pause in celebration to discuss Fringe's 5th and final season renewal!  WOO HOO!!!!!!  Maybe Fox and WB timed the announcement to come after last week's pivotal 19th episode that gave us a brief glimpse at a possible future and what the series end-game might be about.  Regardless of how it happened, the 2 big studios came to some kind of compromise to give us a 13 episode send-off.  Fringe will have closure folks!  And judging by how this series has always seemed to dot its i's and cross it's t's I think we're in for a real treat of a final season.  No word on if we'll get the 13 episodes in the fall (to be split up when the MLB playoffs come to town) or if they'll save it for some kind of Jan/Feb to May run, but it IS coming!! Well done to the dedicated Fringe viewers that have stuck with it this long and kept the discussion of the show alive in order to show the studios we mean business!

Of course, even knowing that the series is drawing to a close, it would seem like a lot of closure to some major arcs is happening this season as well.  When we first were introduced to OVER THERE, who would have ever foreseen the final 10-15 minutes of this episode happening?  It was a very powerful sequence and I will admit, there was a bit of welling of eyes going around in this house!  But WOW, what a great episode.  And that's only part 1 of the 3 part finale!  Of course, now that we know a little bit about the FUTURE, we can discuss where this season is going and perhaps its implications to said future.  Let's dive into the discussion!

Fringe Case of the Week
Well, the next few weeks will consist of the case to end all cases.  All season, the story has been building to make us question what David Robert Jones has in store for the 2 universes.  And now, it's time to stop him!  Walter cracked a code during a dream and called for a joint session with both worlds' Fringe Teams.      He believes that Jones is trying to collapse both universes.  He talks about gravitational singularities and great density and lots of scientific stuff.  But, he believes that the great force behind this collapse would create a new big bang.  A new universe would form where Jones would create the laws of physics and run the show.  The team was ready to dismiss Walter's theory as only a dream until Walternate backed his theory.  Awwww! 

And then we're thrown right into the start of DRJ's big plan.  We see former Cortexiphan subjects Nick Lane, Sally Clark and an array of others planting themselves at specific locations across the globe OVER HERE.  They started causing earthquakes in each of those 27 locations.  (Note: remember last week's Glyph - Quakes?)  Walter knew rather quickly what Jones was up to.  We had that whole tuning fork discussion a couple weeks ago.  This came back into play.  Each universe operates at different frequencies (The key of G and E).   Jones is causing the worldly vibrations to try and shift the universe's keys in both worlds to be the same.  If the frequencies are the same, the barrier between worlds would weaken and the collapse would be inevitable. 

Now, we also had an episode this season where the people from one world were having visions of their doppleganger in the other world.  Alterna-Nick Lane had visions of his doppleganger causing that multi-dimensional Earthquake.  He went to his old classmate from Philadelphia, Lincoln Lee for help.  Of course, I don't think he realized this was a different universe's Lincoln!   Of course, with her old memories in tact, Olivia pieced together pretty quickly what was going on.  She saw a blurry picture of Sally Clark from a cell phone video and got a phone call from Lincoln (from the Bridge between worlds) about Nick Lane.  She realized Jones was using cortexiphan patients to cause these quakes.  

Alterna-Nick is brought here for some experimentations and a bit of LSD!  Olivia is able to enter his mind and visualize Cortexi-Nick.  They spot him at Salem Bay University where Peter and Lincoln take him down!  We then learn from Nick that Jones has been lying to the cortexiphan patients.  He used Bell and Bishop's sales pitch of defending this world from an impending war with the other universe.  What he didn't tell them is that war is over and that both worlds are allies now.  That the fate of both worlds is in their hands.  Jones helped each cortexiphan patient tap into their brain power and control their abilities.  This is exactly what we saw him doing with Olivia back in season 1 and again this season.  Chances are, this was ALWAYS David Robert Jones' plan even from the start of season 1.  But this universal bridge has created a unique opportunity to make his plan come to fruition.  

Olivia seemingly gets Nick to help the Fringe teams out.  But he misguides them to a warehouse where he claims Jones might be.  He then uses his emotional manipulation powers we saw on display in season 1 to cause an FBI agent to want to end his own life with a pen!  OUCH!

It looked like the quakes would be impossible to stop unless they took their last resort option.  Early in the episode, Peter suggested turning off the machine that kept the bridge between worlds open.  (Funny, I didn't even know the machine was on this whole time!)  The problem is, turning off the machine will prevent both worlds from accessing each other again.  It would also stop the healing process that had begun OVER THERE (but no further damage would occur).  Both Walters were not happy about making the call, but in the end, they agreed they had no choice.  There were some emotional farewell scenes, which we will break down and discuss in more detail below.  But whew, some very bittersweet and earned moments between these dopplegangers!  And a big decision by Lincoln to stay OVER THERE and work up his pining for Fauxlivia.  

And alas, Peter helps shut the bridge down prior to the next quakes happening (and yes, it's still confusing  how these teams think the machine was operated to create this bridge in the first place if they don't remember Peter.  But whatever!).   The teams took their respective sides where they were when the bridge was first created.  And the just as suddenly as they appeared, the Alternate Universe Fringe Team plus Lincoln vanished.  We see the 5 people that we have known since season 1:  Peter, Olivia, Astrid, Walter, Broyles and get the feeling that the End-Game to the Fringe series is about to begin.   But not before Walter expresses that he will miss the Alternate Universe crew more than he imagined.  We will too, Walter.  We will too.  

WOW, I never even saw a scene like that coming.  When the alternate Fringe Team was introduced, I don't think I envisioned a time where the door might be closed on their involvement in the show!  Sure, there are still 2 episodes left and Jones still wants to collapse some worlds so maybe we haven't seen the end of those characters.  But, didn't it seem very final to everyone else?  It also raises the question of if the Alternate Universe was even in the picture in our 2036 future we saw.  It was never mentioned in the episode.  Anyway, we have several things to discuss in more detail below, so let's get to it!    


Glyph Code - ALIVE - Well, based on last week's episode where we see an amberized William Bell, I can only come to one conclusion to what this Glyph represents.  But, it could really refer to anyone in this rebooted universe.  Maybe Charlie from Our World is going to return.  Maybe Robocop from the White Tulip episode (okay, that was a joke.  But, man I loved that episode and I'm feeling very nostalgic about the show given it's final season renewal!)  But yeah, I'm going to guess this is about William Bell.  And maybe with a final order of 13 and knowing he won't have to reprise the role too many more times, maybe they can cast Leonard Nimoy one last time to reprise his role next season! Thanks as always to Fringepedia for the screenshot! 

Observer Spotted! 
I actually spotted this guy on my own, since none of the normal websites have updated anything yet.  That guy in this shot of Syndey, Australia (on the right with a briefcase) sure looks like an observer, right?  

Walterisms - Not many this week
  • He did ask Alternate Nick Lane if he ever tried LSD which was pretty funny.  
  • Walter seemed much more serious this week, but his discussions with his alternate self have to at least be up for Emmy consideration!  (I'm kidding myself, I know)
Food of the Week
  • All I have is the sugar cube for the LSD! 

Timeline Changes
  • As we know, Nick Lane has been a recurring character since season 1.  He was a Fringe Case of the week back then (in the Bad Dreams episode).  It was in that episode that we started to piece together Walter's cortexiphan trials and Olivia's involvement in them.  Nick was causing mass suicides with his own traumatic thoughts and of course he blamed Walter for it.  All of this information was referenced again in this week's episode.  New information may be that his sister killed herself due to his suicidal thoughts.  But, the difference is, in this timeline Nick and Olivia hadn't reunited until this episode.  Olivia has all of the memories of meeting him, but this is his first time.  
  • And as we know, Nick, Sally and some other cortexiphan kids were brought together to help Olivia and Walter cross universes to save Peter.  Since, this rebooted team hadn't heard of cortexiphan until this season and Peter didn't exist, these events never happened.  Though, the Olivias did still switch places during what would have been the season 3 timeline and I guess we won't dive into why!
  • Maybe a slight spoilery note, but I think valid information to discuss since it doesn't seem like the show will be discussing it.  I read that other Fringe members may not be getting their old memories back, at least this season.  The quote said that it's not part of the producers' end game.  Interesting, right?   Of course, it did go on to say that there would be some closure as this season ender could have acted as a series finale.  (And I do hope that alternate ending they shot for this season's finale will be included on the season 5 dvd/blu-ray!)  
Universal Farewells
  • This episode allowed both teams to work together one last time and showed how much they have grown to enjoy each other's company.  
  • The Fauxlivia opened up to Olivia about how she loved coming over to our world.  She loved seeing rainbows after it rained.  Something with the light being affected by the damaged world never allows rainbows to show OVER THERE.  In the end, both Olivias said that there were things about each other they admired.  And Olivia told Fauxlivia to keep looking up for that rainbow.   Weird that Olivia has the memories of Fauxlivia sleeping with her man, but Fauxlivia does not have those memories right!  Wouldn't you love to dive into their heads at this moment to see what was going through them?   All in all though, awesome closure between these 2 characters. 

  • Walternate actually handed the olive branch out to Walter in talking about "their son" Peter.  Walternate discussed how remarkable and kind of a boy he was.  All of the things Walternate had ever wished for him.  Walter couldn't handle the discussion and walked away.  But Walternate went after him and sat down in the hallway with him.  Both Walters feared that shutting the machine down may cause Peter to return to his own timeline (they don't realize he's right where he belongs though).  Walter believes that the machine brought him here and there is no reason it couldn't take him away.  Walternate told Walter that 25 years ago Walter was not able to make that decision and he didn't.  Walter accepted that he is not theirs.  Then Walternate may have summed up this whole season with a quote from Marcus Aurelius (which will always make me think of Gladiator when I hear that name),  "The Universe is change;  Our life is what our thoughts make it."  Walternate goes on to describe Marcus as a philosopher king who survived war and spent the rest of his life focusing on the betterment of his people.  "Perhaps we will too."  Walternate puts his hand on Walter's shoulder.  Walter responds with a tearful, "We'll see".   GIVE THAT MAN AN EMMY!!!   Powerful scene.  And, I guess for us and for now, we are to accept that these people may never fully regain their memories but will accept Peter into their lives.  Of course, Peter and Olivia know the truth of it which will provide some continuing weird moments going on!  But awesome closure scene for the 2 Walters as well! 

  • Lincoln and Peter had some interesting discussions in this episode too.  When discussing turning the bridge down, they suggest that it might be for the best.  A return to normalcy.  Of course, the difference being that Peter would decide to stay OVER HERE even though he is from OVER THERE.  Peter mentions that he believes home is where the heart is.  And this is probably how he originally made his peace with returning to our world at the end of season 2.  After he learned he was not of this world.  This also started Lincoln thinking about his next move.  In the end, he decides he wants to help out OVER THERE.  He tells Peter that he thinks he has found his home (while glancing over at Fauxlivia).  Say what you will about him settling for another Olivia.  I think what they have been showing us in these past few episodes that his bond with Fauxlivia was a bit stronger than the one with the rebooted Olivia.  I'm totally fine with this plot move and I thought it was quite sweet.  And the look on Faux's face showed that she was kind of happy about it too. 

  • And of course, after the dedicated episode to the 2 Astrids and another quick scene a couple weeks ago, all we needed was a quick wave of hands to get the waterworks going.  Such an awesome final scene to the episode. Can't say it enough. 

  • Some conversations aren't needed as we see Peter and Walternate, his true father, shake hands for one last goodbye.  Olivia and Lincoln share one last glance at each other.  With the emotional music welling, it was all that was needed! 

Jones' Plan
  • One thing about Jones' plan I couldn't fit into the recap above was the whole concept of how he plans to stay alive.  Yet another reference to an episode this season was made to the "Welcome to Westfield" episode.   Remember when a whole town was wiped off the map in both universes?  But one safe spot in the eye of the storm remained?  It turned out that this was a test on a smaller scale for what Jones planned to do.   He will wipe out 2 universes but still remain unscathed to be around for the Universal reboot!   I just love how all of they tied this whole season together.  It would have been enough to have the themes from each week's case tie into the overarching themes going on in the show.  But no, each of these cases tied into Jones' overall plan and they were all referenced in this episode.  There is quite a reward in a slow burn, folks!  
  • There is one item that hasn't been referenced yet as part of Jones' plan.  What about all of those season 1 Fringe Cases that we saw hanging out on a barge in the middle of the ocean?  You know all of the crazy creatures we have come into contact with?  And the flying porcupine beasts?  Surely, they're going to play into these final episodes. 
  • Oh, and didn't we see Jones cross to OVER THERE when he escaped a few weeks back?  Does that mean we may not be finished with our Cross Dimensional drama?  And of course Alterna Broyles and Meana are both OVER THERE too.  Maybe we will continue their story over there, but we will just see less or no interactions between teams anymore.  
Oh and one more thing.  What do you think the odds are that we get a pregnancy announcement before the end of the season?  I believe there is a Henrietta to be born! 

Whatever is going to happen, I'm excited to see it play out over the final 2 weeks this season.  And I'm even more excited that it isn't our final 2 weeks ever.  This show has proven that it deserves to get a full story told from start to finish.  And whatever monetary solutions were made (for syndication, DVD/Blu-ray sales and whatnot), I'm glad that WB and FOX were able to see that too.  Hope you enjoyed my ramblings as always and I'll see you next week! 

End Credits
  • This season I recapped Terra NovaThe Walking Dead and Alcatraz and am continuing to recap Fringe.
  • Other shows that are being discussed in comments recently:  How I Met Your Mother, The River, Once Upon a Time, Mad Men, Game of Thrones, Awake. Previously discussed: Dexter, Sons of Anarchy, American Horror Story, etc...  Feel free to join in!
  • As always, there are other shows that I watch as well and would be happy to discuss with all of you in the comments of any of these blog posts!


Anonymous said...

As always an excellent recap Mike.

I'm still not sold the "over there" folks are out of the picture. If so, that's the last we'll see of Lincoln. It would also reason if they can turn the bridge off they may be able to turn it back on. As long as Jones can cross between both we will continue to "over there".

I'd bet Olivia is pregnant by the last episode. That may have been something they could have held back until next season, but with a 13 episode deadline I would think things will have to accelerate.

I'm not really sure what the point of closing the bridge will be or if it matters. Obviously it won't stop Jones because there are two episodes left. If the bridge were the answer I think we'd have seen those tearful farewells in the last episode. The shape-shifters, Jones and Olivia have all crossed universes without the bridge.

That logic is kind of why I was disappointed with this episode. The only way closing the bridge ends up being relevant is if it stops Jones.

Also, remember how they found the machine. In parts burried back in time. At some point the machine has to get sent back in time through some process (a wormhole). Of course I am applying the rules of linear time and we already know that time lines have been altered which results in a paradox - nobody built the machine but it exists.

Perhaps the reason the bridge was closed was for more pragmatic reasons. With only 13 episodes in Season 5 sacrifices had to be made in the long term pace of the overall arc. Maybe there just isn't enough time left to create stories that require interaction between the two universes. It also makes it easier for the actors, they get to write off one personality.

I think there will be a real payoff to do a re-watch of Fringe when all five seasons make it out to bluray. Whereas my re-watch of LOST was fun and entertaining but didn't provide many ah-ha moments where I realized I had missed something.

Bill B

Mike V. said...

Bill - Sorry for the delay. Busy wknd with the fam! But thanks as always for the props and for your thoughts as well. Here's my thoughts on your thoughts. lol

I agree, the "OVER THERE" folks may not be out of the picture just yet. It just seemed so final...and that may have been because they weren't sure of renewal or not. We may still see scenes over there this season since the plot may affect them, but probably no more interaction between these least THIS season. But yeah...this could have been a way of writing Seth Gabel's character off of the show. It was tough to service both him and Joshua Jackson in stories once Peter showed back up. They figured out ways but it wasn't always perfect. And if least his stories would be OVER THERE now with Fauxlivia.

Yeah, I was guessing the same with Olivia's pregnancy. If they had 3 seasons to unfold the rest of the story...i'd wonder how much would be similar. But if Henrietta was supposed to be 4 when she last saw her parents...things have to start happening pronto! And now, I'm thinking like MJ....even if she got pregnant now and they didn't get amberized until 2016...the timing doesn't seem to work out right. Well...guess it all depends on what month Henrietta was born and what month the Fringe team got amberized...and if there were any accelerated birth plans a la Fauxlivia. lol I'm sure it'll work out just fine.

Most reviews I've read was that the plot to close the bridges was pretty contrived but the payoff in character moments was well worth it. So, I somewhat agree with you on being confused on how this will work. I'm guessing that the Bridge was going to make things EASIER for Jones...but he has different ideas to accomplish his goals. It was the Machine being on that was giving Jones this "opportunity" the machine is off. But he's still going to try to find another way. But, shutting the machine down bought them more time.

Mike V. said...

There is no LINEAR TIMELINE in Fringe. They've made that very clear. The machine was created by ONE VERSION of Walter, Astrid, Peter and a future that was erased once Peter returned to the machine and merged universes. ( that future, he had originally destroyed the Red World) All timelines exist and can affect other timelines. That's the only way the Fringe story could possibly ever work. lol So yes they sent back the machine and altered the future. That other timeline still exists hence, the machine still exists....but in this revised timeline...Olivia lives, Peter has returned, and eventually the OBSERVERS take over. (of course, unless that is prevented too) It's totally Back to the Future Science, not LOST science. There are 2 forms of Time Travel shows can take. The Paradox/Back to the Future Approach (FRINGE/Star Trek reboot) or the "Whatever Happened Happened" approach (LOST). I am equally interested in both styles and my brain goes crazy when I think too much about either of them! lol

I think this was their plan either way with closing the bridge. They said they were writing season 4 regardless of knowing if there would be a renewal or not. Sure, they filmed an alternate ending if it had to be a series finale. But, season 4's overarching story was the 2 Fringe Teams working together and us figuring out what happened to Peter....they're bringing that story to a close. Season 3's story was 2 worlds at war with one another and will one universe or the other survive...they brought that to a close last year. Each season has a theme...and it would seem like the final season's theme would be Fringies vs. the Observers. Who knows what they would have done if they had 3 seasons to tell that story?

But yeah, I made a similar comment in the comments of last week's blog about a Fringe rewatch having massive payoffs. It already did when I did it last year. But, I definitely will want to revisit at least one more time when it's all done. They have done such a good job of tying things together. I have faith they will bring the show great closure. As for LOST...any time I had rewatched it during its run...I just appreciated what an excellent piece of dramatic television the showrunners and everyone involved made. I agree, there won't be much to piece together when I finally take up a rewatch of the entire series. But I will still enjoy the hell out of seeing my favorite show again!

Thanks for the comments Bill! BTW everyone...I'm ready for Grimm, ONCE, GoT and Mad Men discussions. All fantastic episodes!!

AUStarwars said...

Jones plans on staying alive the same was Osyzmandius did in Watchman..its basically just that whole Watchman plot (rebuild the world with new species, not true meglomania, etc)

I thought it was a great eps..i was getting choked up as well..

the thing i didnt understand was why they were like "the quakes are still happening" just because they captured Nick Lane, one whole Cotexiphan kid compared to the 26 others...

Mike V. said...

FRINGE: @AUSW Didn't even think of Watchmen, but that makes sense....I'm sure these writers, just like the LOST peeps were inspired by works like that.

Glad I wasn't the only grown man welling up at the show! lol

Yeah...I don't know why they thought the quakes would stop either when they just captured one of them. Maybe they thought one disruption may stop the whole thing...but that doesn't seem very likely. lol

ONCE: While I'm thinking about it. Just wanted to be the one to call out that the plane flying overhead in the Pinnochio flashback scene was definitely an Oceanic Airlines plane! lol But this show keeps getting better and better.

Nice reveal with the writer being the wooden boy. And good theories on here to get to that guess! And nice addition to the mythology with it being "2 people" that could come through the wardrobe. I just wonder how long they're going to keep Emma in denial. It seems like a logical building step to have her realize it in the finale and then have season 2 take on a new strategy of her starting to come to acceptance with her role in this whole business. It seemed at first like it could be a series long arc of her needing to realize these are all fairytale characters....but maybe she needs to be the first believer and then start working on everyone else. I'm sure they'll figure out some nice way to leave us on a cliffhanger.

Leslie said...

ONCE – Cool on it being an Oceanic plane! I know the theories were that August was Pinocchio and the boy her found Emma as a baby, but how come August was able to leave Storybrooke with Emma to take her to that diner? Is he different since he’s one of the fairy tale characters that remember their fairy tale roots?

MAD MEN – Sally just looks so grown up, and it looks like she got more of an education than she would like walking in on Roger and Megan’s mom! She looked traumatized! It was funny to reveal that she has a phone friend in Glen.

Peggy is leading the way again! I was kinda surprised that she decided so quickly that it was okay for them to live together especially when Joan got her excited about getting a proposal.

The whole thing with Megan’s parents was interesting, and it seems like Megan is getting Don excited again about work! They worked well together to save that account, and did it seem like Peggy was genuinely happy for Megan even though she could be seen as a

MJ said...

If she got pregnant right now - and they could say she's a month pregnant now actually - then Etta could be born Dec 2012. Or Nov if they want a slightly early delivery. Very tight. LOL

I also remembered last week's glyph - Quakes.

It's amazing to me that everything is still going back to Walter and Belle doing tests on these children. And that they brought back Nick Lane from season 1 or 2 (can't remember). just awesome. That was creepy when our Nick persuaded the agent to kill himself. No surprise that Lee decided to stay with the other side - we hypothesized that weeks ago.

You never thought that they'd end the story of an over-there world? Funny cause I always thought they would - it was just a matter of how. Would they get destroyed, or we all thought there could be a merge of the worlds somehow.

'Walternate discussed how remarkable and kind of a boy he was. All of the things Walternate had ever wished for him. Walter couldn't handle the discussion and walked away. But Walternate went after him and sat down in the hallway with him. ' But - Walter had no memory of raising Peter nor shaping him into who he is.

Sad to hear that it's not in the plans for everyone else to get their memories back. That means Walter will never actually remember Peter growing up.

Good point on the unresolved stories over there, and that we'll still have them close out but not have our characters crossing back and forth.

G of T - WTH ! So smokey shifts into a sodier I guess and kills Renly ! Holy crap and wow !

Couldn't help myself and talked with the husband about Jon maybe not being a Stark bastard and he said wouldn't it be cool if he's Robert Barratheons bastardy !?!

Got behind this past week so no Once or Smash still. LOL Still haven't even watched 30 Rock or parks. Just watched Bitch in apt 23 from 2 weeks ago. LOL

I'd love to talk Grimm but gotta go. I'll be baak !

Leslie said...

seen as a threat? Don't know why that was cut off. :)

Anonymous said...

Another thought,,,,,
If the Observer's agenda is in fact what we saw in episode 19 - to go back in time and become the overlords of the planet Earth,,,, then how can they sit by and watch Jones destroy the universes that they plan on inhabiting some day.

If they are truly more advanced and more powerful than current day humans, then why wouldn't they stop Jones? He is going to destroy their future.

Why must I continue to ask such one dimensional, practical questions when it's clear that there are no rules on this show? I just can't help it.

Bill B

Mike V. said...

This may take a few posts. lol


ONCE - August/Pinnochio wasn't under the curse either. Only CURSED characters are stuck. Hence why Emma is able to leave freely too.

MAD MEN - Sally did initially look traumatized but she looked like she had a hint of excitement when she was talking to Creepy Neighbor (turned College Boy, Glenn) on the phone! What was up with his Jacket only attire? lol

Yeah Peggy has an interesting arc as always this season. I'm sure living together unwed back then was a bigger deal than it is now (still somewhat of a big deal. lol)

But yeah, that awards dinner was insanely juicy! That final shot at the table after they all had some big character developments was priceless.

And of course yes the Heinz dinner was crazy too. I have a feeling I saw the beginnings of Megan being the "idea" person behind Don...he'll get a rejuvination of ideas at work but they won't be his own. And with Peggy's whole speech to Megan about embracing the fact that she had a role in this....i dunno. I just see something coming out of that! Like maybe she'll eventually grow unhappy that Don is using her ideas. Could be totally off on this as I usually am with mad men. Great show!


FRINGE - Yes, very tight timeframe. lol

Nick Lane was in both season 1 AND 2. I mentioned and linked to all of this in the recap!! :-) He had his own story when they first find him in season 1. But season 2 he is used with Sally to help Olivia cross over in the s2 finale. And Nick's whole season 1 story was about him causing lots of suicides. So yeah, it was cool to call back to all of that.

Did I say that or did Bill say that? (ending the story of OVER THERE) was probably me. I flip flop my stances on occassion. lol I knew that something FINAL would have to happen to close this year's story line and open up next year's story arc. So, from that standpoint I think it makes sense that they closed the OVER THERE storyline. But no...i thought with so much revolving around the 2 universes, it seemed like that was a big part of their story. (and it definitely was) Obviously, we discussed all last season if one universe would be destroyed or if they would merge. I always assumed that neither of those would happen. But the fact that they worked together to heal worlds and then closed the door between worlds...I really didn't see that coming.

Walter had no memory of raising Peter....what does that have to do with what I said? Walternate and Walter were reflecting with their brief time they remembered having with this Peter. That's what I was implying.

Yeah, I didn't know what to take from what I read about the memories not coming back for everyone. Maybe it wasn't a goal for this season...or maybe it's never a goal. But, I still do expect some kind of closure there.

Mike V. said...

Smokey was never really "SMOKEY" here. He was a shadow. The thing had a face when it came out of Melisandre. But yes, the scene of killing Renly was directly from the book. I had to read it a few times to catch what happened. It was crazy! I can't believe they didn't end with that last week. But yeah...the whole scene with Davos and Melisandre in the boat was from another point in the book. It happens actually AFTER the Renly death so I don't want to assume they're not going to cover it (but they're probably not going to). So, we were really in the dark when a shadow just came out and killed Renly. We hadn't witnessed that birth scene yet! lol We assumed that Melisandre was behind it though after Renly/Stannis's meeting. Crazy stuff!! They handled it well in the show.

Interesting theory on him being one of Rob's boys. I'm sure someone has had that theory before. But no, that's not where I was going with it! lol There just simply isn't enough information to go on in the show itself to have actual speculation about stuff that has been mentioned in the book. Apparently, from what I've heard, the show writers subscribe to this theory too right now so you'd think they'd hint at it. But, it really remains in George R.R. Martin's head at this point. lol Let's just say this....the theory around Jon Snow may revolve around the Stark Family, the Baratheon Family and the Targarayan family. And they were all involved in that war that gave Robert the throne. All you have to do is look into Robert's motivation for the throne to start coming up with some ideas. The blu-ray features MAY help you! (Also btw...I think there are theories beyond what I already know too from where I am in the books. So I could be totally off! lol)

Oh god....i'm weeks behind on 30 Rock! I know they just had the live show but that will be a summer catchup probably. Parks is still great....Don't trust B wasn't too great last week. But I wasn't really paying attention. lol

Happy to talk Grimm whenever!

Mike V. said...



I think there most definitely are rules on this show. Why would the Observers interfere if they already know how the conflict will end? The Observers already know how the Jones thing is going to turn it's possible they want everything to happen the way it's "SUPPOSED" to happen to make way for their eventual takeover.

MJ said...


Mike V. said...

Ugh..can't access facebook at work, but if it's the premiere date, I know it's next Sunday! lol I set my TiVo!

MJ said...

Fringe: Guess you are right that Walter and Walternet were talking about the time they have had with Peter - but it was weird to me since our Walter really should have more memories of him. And usually when you talk about a person becoming who they are you are referring to years and years of watching someone grow into that person, and you are saying it to the person who raised them. Just didnt' make sense to me.

Bill - I think that is an excellent question - if the Observers know they are going to take over why would they let Jones destroy our world? You may have just hit on something for the finale. LOL

Sherlock - it is the premier date, and I think the first 7 mins of the first ep.

GofT - just like calling him smokey. But was the face Stannis's ? Some debate about that I'm hearing on the grapevine here at work.

Mike V. said...

FRINGE: Yeah, I get what you're saying, but I think the scene served a dual purpose. For those 2 walters vs. the viewers. And Walternate's observations are based on Peter having been with Walter for 3 Years plus this rebooted year and the man he has become out of that. A Peter that fell in love with Olivia who is the same Olivia over 3.5 years let's say. Still struck the right emotional chords for me! But I get how it might be less effective for some.

I still stick to my guns with the Observers. The Observers KNOW the future already. And they don't invade until 2015. So...that pretty much states that everything that has happened up until 2015 goes according to their plan (after they intervened in the whole Peter/Walter situation). Sure...they may have an impact in these final episodes. But I don't know why they'd prevent it from happening. Now, if we are to determine that they are the cause of them preventing it from happening...then that's different. But until now...they will just observe until invasion time. Their directive has always been not to interfere.....and I would assume that stays true until 2015. Am I not making sense??? It couldn't be more clear to me. lol

Shelock - Nice! I still need to finish up the last few minutes of ep 2 and watch ep 3...then maybe i'll check out those first 7 minutes (probably not though. lol)

GoT - Oh yeah, I know you like calling him smokey... I don't know if it was Stannis's face or anything. But I think the whole conversation from the episode WAS in the books. Brienne thought she saw Stannis's face. There are lots of implications in the book that Stannis fathered the Shadow baby but it was never described outright as it was shown in the show a few eps back.

Anonymous said...

So the Observers know Jones will be defeated. That kind of ruins the suspense of these last two episodes for us then doesn't it...LOL?
Although I think we all kind of knew the Fringe team would prevail. I guess the suspense is,,, how they defeat him.

Bill B

Anonymous said...

..and what the repercussions will be?
A new time line? Fire and brimstone? Cats and dogs living together? The Staypuft Marshmallow Man?
I'm sure we will be surprised and perplexed as we have been at the end of every season. And that's why we like Fringe so much.

Bill B

Mike V. said...

Well I didnt say jones would be defeated. I just said whatever the result of this altercation is is what the observers expect to happen! But yes we still need to know what happens. I'm sure something will change to set up s5 whatever it is and I look forward to finding out!!

MJ said...

Fringe - I don't feel less affected by the walters - just feel saddened that they don't truly remember what was. Nor Peter's grifter days either now that I think about it. LOL

Bill - LOL on the Staypuff marshmallow man.

GofT: Loved marjory's - I want to be THE Queen. Too too many lines to remember that were suberb - but the one with Lancel even teasing you is boring - or some such thing. And Tyrion being called the demon Monkey. Hysterical. Guess the line about the whores will be all we'll get about the nameday gift of last week.

I guess the whole thing where the new capt of the Sea Bitch (still lovin that name) going to pillage another city other than the one he is told will play itself out. Can't say it meant much since I really have no clue about either location. And the fact that they know they can't hold it has some bearing too I'm sure. I'll just wait for it. Wait - it occurs to me that Bran got word of an attack on some village - is it the one that Theon got talked into attacking instead of the one his dad told him to ? That seems awfully fast to have the thought and the deed in the same ep.

I recognized right away the guy that Arya let escape the cage - but are they going to give him a name ? I'm sure the book readers know it, but eventually someone has to say it on the show, right? Now that I think about it I think you told me Mike, but I don't remember. Probably have said it on the show too and I couldn't understand it. But - i wonder how wisely Arya will use her last 2 deaths? And how high up will this guy go for her ? Joffrey ? Tywin Lannister ??

Funny how we got to see the little dragons right after I said my husband wanted dragons. But since they are such pups all they can do is cook their own beef tips. But seriously - Dany is only just now figuring out that Jorah loves her? I know she's supposed to have been young and a little naive last year when she was given to Drogo but still !

LOL - so I'm goinna say it again - just like Fellowship of the rings - how can an author be so creative and create entire worlds but can't come up with 20 names that don't sound or look alike. Just saying !

MJ said...

My comments were so long I had to break it into 2 parts ! Sorry about that. I'd been typing thoughts yesterday until I had the time to post them today - guess I had alot of them. ;-D

Grimm: Leave it to Beavers. Loved that ep name. Training with Monroe reminded me of Buffy of old. And the dinner party with Monroe was very funny. Was suwpwised to see who pwayed Sal - our pal Angel from Dexter. He is ok as a cop but somehow as the bad guy with the way he talks - was hard to buy for me. Fun that they brought back butt-crack guy. Bud maybe ? Not sure of his name.
The two reapers were really surprising - and that they torture the guy that hired them ! But it was really bad-ass that he mailed back the two heads. LOL Loved it. Dying to find out more about who this guy is in germany now that he's aware of Nick. All the gifts left at Nick's place were funny. Grimm has really been a surprising hit for me.

Once: Dang ! Missed the plane saying Oceanic. I agree with you - in the finale she will finally believe and then next year will be the struggle to get others on board. Poor Emma though - the actress played that scene very well - you could see the horror on her face to be responsible for the entire towns happiness.

I had to think my way thru the whole why can August leave too. But him and Emma came thru in the tree so not cursed finally occured to me.

Lana Perilla really does an excellent job as the Queen/Mayor - cause I actually felt just a little sorry for her. She really does just want someone to love her, she just can't seem to go about it right. The actress does a good job making the evil character have some sympathetic moments.

30 Rock- you should just watch the live one. I was rolling. Better than even the last one.

Smash - eh - caught up. Not much to say other than nice move by Ivy to get Karen out of the way so she'd get the shadow song. Uma is playing her role pretty well too. Loved the Bollywood scene - esp when we even see the evil little assistant steal something. Very funny.

Mike V. said...


FRINGE: Gotcha. lol Yeah, it's definitely sad. Of course, this version of Walternate is a lot nicer than the last version of maybe there are SOME improvements. lol

GoT: Margery is a great character on the show so far. Pretty much a "talked about character" for a lot of book it's cool to see the machinations BEHIND what we learn later in the book. Oh god...Tyrion's commentary are on another level....I can't even remember what's from the book and what isn't sometimes...but I loved "Plots and Schemes are the same thing." lol Yep...i'm guessing the same about the nameday gift. Just an added scene to show what an A$$ Joff if we didn't know! lol

Yes, Torren Square (sp) is very close to Winterfell so the town Theon and 1st mate were discussing is the same town that Bran had to make a decision on. I really don't want to say anything else here! lol It may seem fast...but I'm just guessing they're progressing each plot by the character's chapters. Theon is a POV character in Book 2....and so is Bran....they're halfway through the season and there's still a bit to tell there. So, I'm guessing they just sped the travel time up a bit here. Like how I'm more forgiving with this show than say...THE EVENT? lol But, if you look at a map of winterfell (or watch the opening credits)...Pyke isn't TOO far from Torren's Square/'s still a good ways...just not as far as Winterfell to King's Landing! (and yes...Sea Bitch...awesome name!)

They did give him a name...he introduced himself the first time they met...but it's hard to pronounce it. It's Jaqen H'ghar (had to google it for the spelling lol)...Good question on the 2 deaths...all I know is the 1st death was different from the book. (BOOK SPOILER (Not TV SHOW): supposedly the Tickler dies later in the 3rd I got spoiled on that. lol) ....I don't even remember who the 1st death was. But, I won't say anything about the other 2!

Loved that the dragon was cooking his meat. lol That was a fantastic addition. As for her learning Jorah loves her....I dunno....I guess she's just a little slow. :) She's a POV character in the books so you can see her internal thoughts on the matter. She pretty much knows he loves her...Of the book...she's 13 and he's still around the same age. lol They had to age her a bit for the show to make some stuff appropriate to show on TV, as you can imagine!

Yeah...pretty crazy with the names. And of course, he makes it even worse that children are named after their there's Brandon Stark and Bran Stark....Lots of Robb Starks..... It's crazy! But I guess that's why the writers of the show decided to change Theon's sister's name from Asha to Yara since there's already an OSHA in Winterfell. lol

Mike V. said...

GRIMM: Yeah...i figured Grimm has a lot of Buffy traits to it. The Dinner party was hysterical. And yes...definitely recognized Angel and his speech impediment. lol (has a little trouble with his r's I believe!) Hmm...butt crack guy? Is that the beaver? or someone else. May have missed that.

Oh yeah...Nick's big fight with the Reapers was pretty awesome....and can't believe they showed those decapitations on network television! But mailing them back? Classic. Definitely agree on Grimm being a surprisingly good show. It won't be upgraded from Treadmill status for me anytime soon though. Procedurals work well for that. lol almost through the 3rd ep of Sherlock so I'll be ready for the new one next week!

ONCE: The Oceanic thing...i processed it 5 seconds after I saw it. I saw the plane and thought "hmmm that logo looks familiar"...then I remembered the writers and pieced it together. lol They would never let a plane fly by without it being Oceanic! Yeah...even if she does find out about the town being fairy tale characters...they could probably spend a season with her accepting that fact and accepting her role. She'll know she's dealing with her actual parents....she'll be dealing with some people that know about the past and don't know. It'll be interesting the way it plays out. I hope August/Pinnochio stays on as a main character. Not sure if he was just recurring or not. He could be a potential love interest for Emma too since the Huntsman is dead and all. lol

Yep, Emma/August not cursed. That's the ticket! lol

Yeah...this will be yet another one of those shows where we can sympathize with all character's motives. Mr. Gold and the Mayor being the biggest villains on the show....but they have the most sympathetic stories so far too. Really good show!

30 Rock - I'll see what I can do! lol I do want to watch them all...we just always fall behind. I'm 2 behind on Awake now too...but considering they're airing 3 new Community episodes on the last Thursday of May Sweeps instead of a 2 hour Awake (will air the final hour outside of sweeps)....I'm guessing we probably have our renewal answer there. Good news for Community though!

SMASH - Hmmm...did you watch SMASH from last night? The bollywood scene was good last week. But last night was pretty good! and of course...

HIMYM - I won't say anything until I know you've watched...but nice setup for the 1 hour finale, I believe!

MJ said...

HIMYM - of course I watched ! LOL The duck tie returns - yay. Too funny with Ted seeing Robin in everyone. I'm torn - they said they didn't talk for a long time, but I'm over it and want them friends again. LOL Though Yobin was funny.

As much as Quinn keeps saying she doesn't want to change - she also did say she'd quit if she got married. And yes - a very nice setup for our finale.

G of T - I get that they sped the travel - and i actually appreciate that - but it confused me since the towns are names I didn't quite get. That's cool.

Grimm: Butt crack guy is the beaver who was in a previous ep who came over to fix a fridge or dishwasher or something.

Awake - aww ! I did not know about them airing the finale after sweeps. I like this show. Reminds me of a really great show journeyman that never got the time to grow.

Guess I'm behind on Smash again then. LOL

Mike V. said...

HIMYM - Yes on Duck Tie, Marshall's T-Shirt (which I think was a flash of the future last season too. lol) and Ted seeing Robin in everyone. I think they're about to make ammends...Ted and I think the "long time" is over! And yes...Yobin was pretty funny. lol Quinn did say that she would quit if she got maybe we're going to see him propose this season. Actually, a nice setup/twist for next season would be if Barney proposes to Quinn in the present day and then they flash to the wedding and show us the bride is Robin or something. lol

GoT - Oh yeah...there's no way we could keep the names straight. I wouldn't have remembered where Torren's Square was either. But, theon mentioned it when talking to his First Mate that Winterfell is 20 miles away or something like that. They wouldn't be able to hold Torren's Square....then he smiled because he had an idea. I have spoiled nothing that wasn't already revealed and will say no more! :-)

Grimm: Yes...the beaver...okay. I didn't remember ever seeing a crack or him being referred to that! lol

Awake - Big fan of the show too...but the ratings just are not good at all. I definitely will watch the rest of this season renewal or not!

SMASH - yep, you are! lol

Mike V. said...


From tv guide's mega buzz

"Will the rest of the Fringe team regain their memories before the end of the season? — Larry
NATALIE: No. "We're not telling stories about other people becoming their Season 1, 2, and 3 version of themselves," executive producer Jeff Pinkner says. "The last couple of episodes are very much our two universes, and then specifically our key characters dealing with the consequences of what David Robert Jones is up to, then Jones fighting back." (The good news: We have a whole other season to deal with the rest of it!)"

Anonymous said...

Glad to see the show's going to have more eps and some more time for a good finish.
It's hard to believe there can't be and therefore won't be any travel between the world's. Esp with Jones, Olivia and Peter having done it in other ways.
I'm still not convinced that Jones is all bad?? Esp given what we saw as a possible Observer's controlled world. But if he's not a bad guy, why not come speak with Walter, etc?? Maybe that conversation would give away too much mystery as to whom's up to what?
MadMen--Wow, I thought Don took it hard when he was told "none of these people will do business with you(in essence)" because they can't trust you. They'll give you awards, but no business.


Mike V. said...

Hey Richard, nice to see you in the comments again!

FRINGE - Agreed on the show having appropriate time for closure.

Based on what the producers said in that quote I posted (comment above you), it sounds like we haven't seen the last of OVER THERE. As far as traveling between worlds...I guess we'll see! I just don't think they would have shut down the bridge if they were going to be doing that. All of the world switching previously was all motivated by things involving Peter... That issue seems to be resolved for now.

Well, what we've seen with this show and many other shows is that there are no real VILLAINS....just different reasons for motivations. Jones was the biggest villian "type" this show ever had after we got a deeper dive into Walternate's reasoning for his behavior. You could be right that Jones could be doing something that might be in the best interest of everyone. (although, I don't know how wiping out 2 universes to create a new one from scratch can be justifiable to anyone other than Jones himself and his minions) I wouldn't be surprised if we got a deeper dive into his motivations in these final 2 eps. There definitely seems like some conversation has to happen to close this storyline and potentially open the door to the Observer Arc.

MAD MEN - Yeah, that scene may have lasted 20 seconds but it was very powerful! And so true. Lucky Strike was their biggest the perception by other clients can't be good!

Mike V. said...

Game of Thrones: For anyone who isn't reading the books, is a great source of information. You can say how far you are in the book and the TV show and the site adjusts the information available accordingly. But also...this Westeros Map uses Google Maps technology so you can get an idea of where everything is.

I was checking it out for a chapter I'm reading right now but then I stumbled upon Pyke, Deepwood Motte, Torrhen's Square and their geographic relation to Winterfell. Thought you might be interested in bookmarking this one!

There are other maps for the Great Eastern Continent (where dany is) and tons of other stuff too.

Mike V. said...

(i should clarify my first comment...the site is a great source for people reading the books too. lol I was just sharing the links for TV ONLY peeps who might want some additional reference material.)

Mike V. said...

Fringe - cryptic q&a with producers.

Mike V. said...

Breaking Bad: didn't watch the video but it's a behind the scenes look at season 5 and a tease that the "craziest season ever" is ahead of us! Figured I'd share. lol

Anonymous said...

Interesting comment I read on another blog.
What was Jones trying to get alterna-Broyles to do a couple of episodes ago? ... Destroy the Bridge.

Instead he turned himself in to our Broyles.

What was the end result of the cortexiphan induced earthquakes? ... The Fringe Team turned off the machine.

Seems, Jones wanted that machine off one way or another. So... maybe the quakes were just a way to get what he wanted for his ultimate plan.

Sorry if someone else mentioned this above and I missed it.

Bill B

Mike V. said...

Nope, Bill you're the first person to mention it. And I pretty much hit myself over the head for not even putting 2 and 2 together!lol Very good point. Of course, I wonder if destroying the bridge vs. manually shutting it down would have 2 different results? Probably not. Depends what was on that device that Broyles had. It might have been another attempt at trying to tune the universes to the same frequency.

Leslie said...

Modern Family - "He who tossed it lost it!" lol I just LOVE this show! It never disappoints, and I always laugh! The first flyer Cam did with the $25 reward was priceless. And, I love how Gloria embraces her trophy wife status. Then there's Claire losing the new car keys on the beach because she was doing cartwheels. LOVE IT!

Mike V. said...

MF was hysterical last night. I don't remember ever being disappointed. Everything you brought up were highlights for me too! The homeless guy having the bunny was a good time too. lol

Loved that Luke didn't realize a girl had a crush on him. ....ahh that kid. lol

Kelly said...

Ok I know I've been MIA, so busy busy busy! I just wanted to drop in and give you a link to something I saw this morning... COULD IT BE???

Mike V. said...

Didn't watch the video, but I had read that Damon Lindelof was interviewed recently for Prometheus and he made comments like he's sure ABC will try to bring it back in some way at some point but he will definitely not be involved.

But, he said he wouldn't be opposed to it and used him being involved in the Star Trek reboot as an example. He would be a hypocrite if he was against people playing in his playground. lol

But, he had been quoted saying that before back when the show ended. I think they need to let LOST sleep a little bit before they try to do any revivals. But, of course I would be there with bells on if it came back...and speaking of revivals....a little sleeping giant called would be up and running again!! Of course, I don't know if my super long recaps that took 5 hours to write could ever happen again! lol

Kelly said...

Aw, sucks that he wouldn't be a part of it, but it's nice to think about it! LMAO on your comment about the sleeping giant that is Lost Addicts Blog, haha!

Mike V. said...

Glad you enjoyed that! lol

Surely they would attach Damon and Carlton's names as consultants to the project. Of course, with the loud minority that disliked the finale so vocal, ABC may not want Darlton involved at all. Other people could cover areas of the mythology that were introduced in the original series and build out stories for those.

I always figured those areas would be great territory for Novels, Video Games, Graphic Novels, etc... That could still happen, I guess!

Kelly said...

Oh totally, that story is so rich that there could be stories for years if the right people were involved!

Oh snap, only another hour and a half until my weekend begins! Happy Cinco de Mayo everyone!

Mike V. said...

Have a good wknd. Happy Cinco de mayo tomorrow, but today Happy Star Wars day. May the "4th" be with you! lol