Monday, December 5, 2016

TV Discussion: Week of 12/4/2016 - 12/10/2016

Hello fellow TV Addicts!  This is our weekly place to discuss all non-recapped shows. See you in the comments!

58 comments:

Mike V. said...

WW - I watched Richard. Just wanted to let you know. I'll discuss in a couple hours. But, the theories were correct. I don't think we doubted them at this point. I know you questioned how William could evolve the way he did. It pretty much went down as I had been suggesting. His attitude towards the hosts evolved over time. But, it seems that first impression did a number on him. I do wonder if we'll continue the flashbacks in season 2 or if they showed us enough and Jimi Simpson is no longer part of the show. I'm not surprised that Hopkins was a one season guy. I guess he could always come back in a guest role next season, but it was pretty poetic how he followed in Arnold's footsteps in the end. And interesting that Maeve's actions were all scripted and part of his final narrative as well (I'm assuming). So I wonder if the guy helping her was in on it? It was funny when he thought he was a host too...as we theorized. Anyway....I thought it was good closure to the season. We even saw suggestions that there are more parks...>SAMURI WORLD??? lol And that letter said that West World is "PARK 1". Interesting stuff. Will definitely comment more later.

Anonymous said...

WW--It's like they're taking the movie's narrative and possibly making 3 seasons out of it. The robot worlds introduction, the robot revolt and the robot put down. Yea the movie had 3 parks. Interesting that they referred to a mainland btw, like this is some kind of island.

1. MIB going from loving to beating Dolores was attempted to be explained. To me, it's completely missing reality based on a normal person. I take from the explanation that he's a nut job--lol. I mean, he falls in love with a robot that's known to be in loops and then he goes nutso on her because she's a robot on a loop--lol. I found the explanation weak at best. Of course him getting shot and liking it toward the end kind of shows MIB is indeed nuts. Which doesn't make any sense based on reality, ie a major corporate guy being nutso over a period of decades. That's what boards are for as an example.
2. Bernard coming back happened as I suspected with Thandie involved. But, emptying the basement was Ford's idea. We suspected his new narrative was about killing humans. But, I am surprised he wanted all the robots to take over for real as part of establishing themselves as the next step in evolution. I wonder if Charlotte is dead?
3. I called the Thandie stuff though, I knew he knew what was going on.
4. I found it weak that nobody explained the maze to MIB. Too simple to explain and yet they made it like it's impossible to understand---lol. I liked how Arnold explained the maze.
5. I'm still holding out hope for full on transcendence and in a way Arnold did so with Dolores and a handful of robots and so maybe Ford too.
6. So, part of Wyatt wsa uploaded to Dolores. I guess we'll meet Wyatt next season?
7. Ford not being in S2 will make the series less desirable to watch for me since he was the main draw.

Richard

Anonymous said...

WW--ONe key point made was that the robots go insane with their rememberances and search for consciousness. So, with Dolores having the added burden of having hers and Wyatt's traits, she should become a full blown nutso. I don't think she will since she's such a big star on the show. (Side Note-One reason I like GoT is because you aren't sure if a major character is going to be taken out) With this show you're almost guaranteed a zero take out on the majors.
I can't imagine a S2 without drama. So, I don't expect the robots to make their world a garden of Eden without problems. I think it possible that this next stage of evolution might have it's own problems. Even without a human attack.

Richard

Mike V. said...

Before I even read your comments I had another thought on Hopkins/Ford. Remember when we thought Ford was making a HOST to replace Theresa? There was a host being built down there and we knew it took longer than the ones in HQ. What if he was creating HIMSELF? I haven't read any interviews to see if Hopkins is not in season 2. But there is certainly a chance that he will be involved. I'm going to read your comments now but wanted to get that thought out there before I did. lol

Mike V. said...

WW

1.) Yeah he's definitely nuts. The fact that he fell in love with a host in the first place and then obsessed over finding her (how long were they in that park on his "bachelor party" anyway?) LOL But they seemed to indicate he found his TRUE calling on that quest. And when he saw Dolores in the next loop...he had changed. Add 30 years on top of that and he's a totally different man than that novice that went into the park. I buy it. Maybe they will spend extra time in subsequent seasons selling that to you. lol

2.) Good question on Charlotte...I always go with the "if we didn't see it..it didn't happen" philosophy. So I'm sure she's okay. But humans certainly did die.

3.) Yep, you did. It was always one of the options on the table. But it was cool to see how they did it with them reading her "plot" in the code. lol I was disappointed that she didn't leave the park but I had a feeling she wouldn't be once they brought up "her daughter". I thought that could've been a great cliffhanger to show what the outside world looked like. But what they chose made more sense for the theme of the season.

4.) The maze wasn't FOR him. It's not that he couldn't understand it. I guess they could've explained it...but it didn't bother me. He was certainly happy with the results of Dolores finding the center of the maze.

5.) Okay...so I see brought up a similar idea that I did in my 9:15 comment. Yeah...this could still be at play. Though it is interesting they never really hinted at transcendence. That was all us theorizing. (and I'm sure others theorizing too) We'll see! But that doesn't mean Ford didn't necessarily build a replacement for him in the park to cause trouble in the new narrative. In fact...season 2 could all be about his new narrative. His legacy lives on even though he doesn't.

6.) Huh??? I thought the finale confirmed what was theorized. Dolores = Wyatt. When she was talking to herself on the chairs it was Wyatt meeting Dolores. Or are you suggesting that Wyatt was a person before he was code?

7.) We'll see if that's the case.

Well...maybe no host major stars can be taken out but humans can now. They could bring in some series regular humans that you grow to like and they can be killed. Also...HQ could work on a weapon to ultimately END a HOST. Maybe some virus that erases their cornerstone memories essentially losing their identity. There are ways they can go to kill off people. But no...I don't think Evan Rachel Wood is going anywhere any time soon. But that's kind of like Walking Dead....everyone is threatened to be killed at all times...but you know Rick and his son will make it through until the end. Like LOST....after Jack wasn't killed in the pilot (as originally intended) you knew he'd be in it until the end. Thrones was designed differently and had 4 books (with a 5th on the way) to lead their charge into new TV territory. They knew casting a movie star (but minor enough of a star that they would consider a lead in a premium TV show) in season 1 only to kill them off would be shocking. But they had a script to know there was juicy stuff to come in the wake of that.

This isn't exactly a clone of Thrones....it'll pave its own path. We'll see if it can hold up the suspense. I think it can.

Anonymous said...

WW--You bring up a good point re Ford. I thought he might possible come back as a robot but gave it little chance. You're bringing up the new robot gives me some hope!

I rewatched the scene with where we find that some or all of Wyatt(they said he was under development) was uploaded and merged with Dolores. If you know programming it's very possible that it's not certain where 100%Dolores= 100% Wyatt. Maybe she's 2 people at once hence the title--bicameral mind. But, it has been stated over and over how difficult it is for a robot to find consciousness as just 1 person. AND the secret to Dolores finding the center of the maze was for her to hear herself as the voice. It was her looking at herself in the chairs for example. She had reached consciousness when she could direct herself. I'm thinking that she has some of Wyatt's traits, at least I'm hoping that's the case. Rewatch that portion and let me know what you think?

The maze wasn't FOR MIB, but he kept asking what was at the center, that's different than saying I must go there. It was like he got it, that it wasn't for him, so ok, what's there? I found the lack of response to be a high handed jerk type response. Why not help the guy out some. Once you told him, he would completely understand. Have you ever had those computer experts that come in and fix something then you ask about it and they basically tell you in their silence that you're too dumb to get it? That's the kind of jerky response I'm seeing. BTW, I fired those types.

Richard

Mike V. said...

WW - Looks like I wasn't the only one that thought it:

(click on spoiler picture to reveal)
https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/5gjrc4/anthony_hopkins_season_2/

They don't just put details in for no reason. Surely, that robot being constructed serves some role. And the fact that Bernard made mention that it takes a "couple weeks" or "few days"...forget what he said.

I do work in software development (not specifically as a coder though) so maybe I know of programming. lol I'll try to rewatch later. Tough to do at work but I hear what you're saying. I guess it's not clear cut. I just thought the mystery of Wyatt was resolved when we saw them uploading a big display label of "WYATT" into Dolores. lol Coding vs. TV Coding is normally a little different. They like to make bold statements on TV so people 'get it'.

I thought the fact that Ford showed up to talk to William/MIB was the response. William said what he wanted in the park and Ford told him to come to the ceremony and he will be pleased. And he most certainly was. So you could say MIB succeeded in his quest...even though it would've happened regardless of if he went on the quest at all. lol Maybe that's not true...I'd have to go back to Ford and MIB's discussion mid-season in the saloon. I forget what they talked about, but it possibly informed Ford's decision making.

Computer people don't tell me I'm too dumb to get it...because I'm one of the computer people! lol Any time I call tech support anywhere I usually know more than the person I'm talking to!

BTW...I know it's obvious at this point, but they did confirm that Ford did indeed dig up that town again in the present day. I was pretty on point with my dissection of the timelines and the "miraculous" cure of Dolores last week. :)

Anonymous said...

WW-You did mention they dug up the town again!

I view the AI software as a series of subroutines if you will. Some of them dealing with traits, such as being a mass murderer--lol. The way Dolores behaved it was kind of like, ok now let's cue the mass murderer subroutine--lol. I read about computers using human neuro networks and my son is studying in college. His combination of degrees will help him to develop that if he decides to. In my day I was looking at crystals to move from pure digital(on/off) to an "analog version" of digital which could accomodate maybes. I looked at it enough to know it was over my head--lol.

LOL on computer people calling you dumb. They wouldn't do that, but surely you've seen how they can get pretentious. And I don't like that in employees.

When the lights went on with Teddy and Dolores it made me wonder if the MIB had become a part of Ford's new narrative. As an unknowing participant.

BTW, in channel surfing I saw part of an older ep where Dolores's Dad was essentially telling Ford that the park was his prison and that he would be trampled over, etc. This is when he was being portrayed as nuts but watching it now he looks prescient.

So, with Arnold occupying Dolores's mind I think that represents some kind of transcendence. Particulary with the interaction. Poor Dolores, she had 3 peole in her mind--no wonder she cries a lot--lol.

I think it would represent transcendence if Ford comes back. The difference between that possibility and the movie would be infrastructure requirements.

Richard

MJ said...

Luke Cage - watched one or two more. Cannot believe they killed Cottonmouth ! And that it was his cousin who did it. Wow.

Mike V. said...

WW

So you think Dolores is not fully sentient while committing those mass murders? I guess we're meant to think Maeve isn't if she's following a script. That's pretty interesting I guess... lol on your son's studies vs. yours.

I do know about pretentious IT people...that said...I work in a huge IT division and am surrounded by them all day. So the environment is a little different than your average company with a couple IT guys doing troubleshooting.

Interesting thought with MIB being part of the new narrative. Certainly seems that way.

Yeah that callback is the precise reason I may want to rewatch the whole season now. Things will most definitely take on different meanings.

lol on the 3 people in her mind. Yeah I guess it could be that...or it could've been another subroutine as you mentioned above. But it certainly was Arnold that made her kill him.

There's the reverse theory that the man killed wasn't ford but the host he created and he's still ticking. I just think with the themes of the show you'd want someone wanting to live forever by becoming a host. Seems the next logical step.

Mike V. said...

Luke Cage - Yeah I was shocked by that too...I thought he and Pop (barbershop guy...may have name wrong lol) were going to be long running characters. Pretty crazy how things evolve.

Mike V. said...

WW - I never made reference to it during the season because I wasn't reading it, but James Hibberd has been giving Westworld the Game of Thrones treatment this year. Lots of articles on the finale. This one is top 10 questions answered/sorta..

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/12/05/westworld-finale-questions

One suggestion he had about raising the stakes in season 2 would be for the host copy machines to be destroyed so everyone is playing life/death stakes. I think there's more to it than that..i don't think they were recreating bodies each time (only Maeve got that treatment I think)...they were repairing the existing hosts.

Ed Harris interview: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/12/05/westworld-ed-harris-man-black-finale

Recap: http://www.ew.com/article/2016/12/04/westworld-finale-recap

Anonymous said...

WW-I think it possible that Dolores became a conscious/sentient being when she was sitting across from herself. And like humans we have different parts of our make up.

I wonder if the Wyatt storyline will stay with Dolores or develop another character. I could see it going either way. I think we're meant to believe Wyatt=Dolores. ONe reason I think Wyatt will become a real character is the need for a bad guy if you will.

Re the IT guy/pretentious--did you ever see those SNL skits, they were funny.

So, have you found your hero in the storyline yet, the one you're hoping will develop? I could see it possibly being Dolores as we've discussed before.

Thanks for the links
Richard

Mike V. said...

WW - Yeah I get what you mean about needing a bad guy. But we've discussed that before. Do you REALLY need one? I guess ultimately you do. But with this show the bad guy kept shifting. Was it Man in Black? Was it Ford? Was it the corporation? Is it the Hosts? More specifically now...is it Dolores/Wyatt?? Tough to tell! I think for now the answer was meant to be clear...the Wyatt we've been chasing all season was Dolores. That may change in the future though...so I guess we'll see.

So I see you dove back into our discussion too (your last question/comment)....yeah it's really tough to tell. I mean I guess we're rooting for Dolores...but killing those people in cold blood doesn't do her any favors. Sure, we may have been trained to dislike the establishment...but I'm sure some of those people were innocent....I guess they are investors in the company so maybe not TOTALLY innocent. For now I guess I'm happy just being an observer who is willing to switch sides depending on the story being told. I certainly was rooting for Dolores and William in their story....I wanted Ford to one up the establishment. I wanted Maeve to escape. Always rooting for Teddy to not die. lol I'd say it's still tough to tell.

Mike V. said...

Forgot about the IT guy...surely I saw the SNL sketches but I can't seem to place them.

Mike V. said...

WW - Top Reddit comments on this episode are hilarious and pretty relevant when considering the video game analogy.

"I love that the thing that made William turn bad was losing his saved game data."

nested response: "To be really honest, most games at which I cheated were after something corrupted my save file or state, and then I couldn't stop myself from cheating more."

nested response to that: "Yep you get so far on the straight and narrow, investing yourself in the game and your character, then your save gets corrupt. You cheat your way back to where you were but at that point it doesn't feel like the same game anymore and it's impossible to immerse yourself the same way.
"

https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/5gjovu/westworld_1x10_the_bicameral_mind_postepisode/

Mike V. said...

WW - Hopkins Interview

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/12/05/westworld-anthony-hopkins-finale

Anonymous said...

LOL on your posted redit comments. I don't game. But I can see that totally. Great perspective to help keep it in it's place. How can you die if you were never alive-lol. One thing I've noticed is that HBO keep referring to the robots as hosts. While I call them robots.

Ford interview, so you think he's done then?

Richard

Mike V. said...

Showrunners interview. Sounds like he's done but they're vague.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/12/05/westworld-finale-interview

People think the handshake with Bernard was significant too. Like it passed on ford's control over the hosts.

MJ said...

This show could be decent. Like I need another new show ! LOL
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/legion-premiere-date-announced-fx-182657529.html

Anonymous said...

WW--Yea, the vagueness ties into my thoughts that Dolores=Wyatt could go either way. Basically, I think they and Hopkins were not 100% sure if he would be back or if he wanted to come back. I don't think he's easily replaceable either.

And the handshake could go either way too.

At this point, I think he's likely not coming back and Dolores=Wyatt.

LEgion could be good. One thing I liked about WW is that they didn't try to jam political correctness down my throat. These recent comic book shows have been all about political correctness, so I've don't like them too much.

Richard

Mike V. said...

Legion - One positive thing is I don't think this is part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe so there doesn't feel like an obligation to watch (like SHIELD, Carter, Luke Cage, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Defenders....) I'd assume this is a FOX property which has X-Men and all its spinoffs (Deadpool, Wolverine etc...) But not sure if it's part of that universe or not. lol

WW - Right...from what I heard they intentionally left stuff vague so they could figure out what worked/what didn't...and casting negotiations (i.e. Tessa Thompson/Charlotte isn't under contract...Hopkins was a 1 season sign on) and then they could break season 2 after they figured all of that out.

So like you said..it could go either way. No Hopkins isn't easily replaceable...but you can't expect him to be tied to a long running series given his stature/age either. Maybe an appearance here or there though.

Anonymous said...

WW

Exactly on Hopkings, maybe an appearance here and there. That's my hope since I know you're right on him filming another complete season.

LOL on Charlotte--seriously I don't know anybody who thinks she's even something to talk about. I also didn't like the dweeby IT guy who wanted to take Ford's place-lol--I bet he's a goner.

With a human vs machine fight about to erupt we could be introduced to a whole new villian. With MIB basically owning so much of everything and him seeming to be on the side of the machines I would think the new villian will come from outside and be someone we haven't met yet? LOL, I said villian like I'm on the machine's side. Wow, I almost got sucked in--lol.

Richard

Mike V. said...

WW

Charlotte - yeah the actress is an up and comer and has been in some good stuff but most people agree her role on the show is ridiculous. lol

Dweeby IT guy - also one of the least valuable players...but he wasn't an IT guy...he was HEAD WRITER for the narratives.

I don't think MIB is on the side of the machines. I think he wanted more of a challenge...he wanted the stakes to matter. So I think he'd still fight the machines maybe. Or maybe he wants to kill other humans. I dunno. lol But I would agree you could still get another villain to enter the show.

BTW...did you notice that Maeve left the bag on the train? Some theorize that this was part of her narrative to get Arnold/Ford's intellectual property outside of Westworld to start the AI revolution on the mainland. So there definitely could be threats from the outside too. And just threats ON the outside.

I think that is a huge missing component to the show. We need to know the environment outside of the park(s) to know why the park actually matters. Is it grim? mundane? normal? on a different planet? etc... I read the showrunner interview that basically we are learning things as the hosts are learning them...so if they didn't make it outside we shouldn't know what's outside either. They thought about teasing it...but thought it betrayed their "rules" they put in place for themselves.

MJ said...

Legion - yep - on FX

Saw actor who played Maester Aemon died

Mike V. said...

GoT - Yeah I saw that too. RIP and now his watch has ended.

Mike V. said...

GoT/Winds of Winter (book 6) - Forgot to share this yesterday. George was somewhere talking about the tone of the book suggesting it'll be pretty dark. Duuuuh lol

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/12/05/george-rr-martin-teases-winds-of-winter

Mike V. said...

Leftovers - Season 3 (final season) will come out in April of next year. I know I've stated this over and over and critics have as well. Season 2 was SO MUCH better than season 1. It's the Damon Lindelof that you know and love from LOST doing some great TV work on a different show. Can't recommend highly enough.

Mike V. said...

Leftovers - duh link

http://tvline.com/2016/12/06/the-leftovers-final-season-3-premiere-date-hbo/

Also this makes sense since Game of Thrones will be coming out later that this 8 episode stint will be released in its place. So maybe that means THRONES will start in June/early July.

Anonymous said...

WOW--Dark--you know in a kind of very strange way I've been pulling for the ICE--lol. The nights king is a kind of hero to me. I know he shouldn't be and I know he won't win nor do I really want him to but it's kind of a "rooting for the underdog thing". I'm thinking my perfect ending would include the death of the ice king, Jon Snow and Danny. I know that ending has no hope--lol.

Do you think he'll ever finish Dream of Spring?? I'm glad some peole know the framework of the ending.

Aftermath--I forgot if anybody is watching but some interesting bits came up.

Richard

Mike V. said...

WOW - Yeah I know you have been rooting for the walkers. lol There's certainly hope if Dany, Jon and Night's King die. There's Tyrion, Bran, Arya, possibly Jaime Lannister to pick up the remains and run the kingdom. Of course, with the trajectory Arya is on, that doesn't look good.

Now RICKON..we don't know what route the book will go vs. the show so he still could be a hope for the future too.

People we like (or at least have been following the entire show) are definitely going to die in the end, but there will have to be some kind of hope in the end. He does say BITTERSWEET end.

Dream of Spring - Well, I guess there just has to be hope FOR an end on our part too. LOL I don't know if he'll finish. I'll keep the faith.

Aftermath - not watching, sorry!

Mars - Did this show ever have a 2nd episode? I thought I set a season pass but no new episodes recorded. I forgot all about it.

Anonymous said...

Mars. I think I saw the 3rd ep. Honestly I don't watch closely and have FFD through some of it. I think it's over dramatized, but you know me so it could be normal.

I think it's possible a new generation will take over by the end. Something we've spoken about before. So, Bran, Rickon and some other younger ones. I'd be good with that.

Richard

Anonymous said...

Shield--So Coulson likes May romantically but how she's a bot. LOL, LOL, LOL--and we all know the real May isn't dead. Kind of like WW.

WW--Speaking of WW--last night it occured to me that this show seems to be including some things from Battlestar Gallactica. Like origins and bots being a next generation. The more I think about it, the more similarities are developing. The bots origin story in BSG is similar to the finale we saw. Some differences but many similarities. BSG also had inclusion of definining God, as did WW. BTW, I looked at the Sistine Chapel painting again and the background is a rob along with other robs, capes, gowns, etc. But hey, it's a piece of work and everybody has a POV.

Richard

Mike V. said...

Mars - well crap. I'm not sure why it's not recording. I'm sure the show is fine. I guess I wasn't that attached to it. Maybe I'll see if I can watch on my phone or something. Doubt I'll get to it though.

THRONES/WOW - Yeah...agreed.

Shield - You got a romantic vibe there? I thought it was just a long standing friendship...but yeah...she is a bot. Definitely like West World...and Humans...and all the other shows with AI. But since next half is going to be subtitled LMD (Life Model Decoy) they are modeling it after Marvel Comic stuff. They also tied it back to Age of Ultron and the Sokovia Accords from Civil War.

WW/BSG - Yeah there definitely are some comparisons to be made there. All of these shows with lifelike bots have the advantage of us not knowing who is human and who isn't. And they all are using it. lol Are you suggesting the Sistine Chapel painting doesn't include a large brain?? LOL I did a quick google and results are coming back PRE-West World about the brain....some suggest a uterus too. But yes...all art is up for interpretation. I'm not usually one for interpreting it!!

Leslie said...

This is Us - Have y'all watched yet?

MJ said...

This is Us - two behind. Maybe I will try to catch up tonight

Flash - loved the 'Philosophers Stone' reference. LOL

Mars - I have ep 2 and 3 on the dvr - not watched yet

Anonymous said...

US--watching tonight

Mars--I think there can be some variance in broadcast schedule.

Sistine Chapel--Yes,the uterus thing has been around for as long as I can remember. Kind of like a birthing thing as I recall. I tend to take MIchaelangelo at his word though--lol.

Richard

Anonymous said...

WW--maybe Ford is/was a megalomaniac and thought himself to be a god, as he described? He was really big on how he made everything, you know.

Richard

Mike V. said...

This is Us - Yep, I watched Leslie. Craaaaaazy! Without spoiling do we think the mantra will stay true that nothing bad happens on Christmas eve? That would be a crappy cliffhanger if it's not true! But could serve as motivation for Kate in the long run I guess.

Flash - Yep...that was pretty hilarious! I already forget...did they leave us with a cliffhanger or was it just a happy Christmas scene in the end? I guess we know that Barry is going to be fixated on preventing Iris from being killed by Savitar. So there's that.

Mars - I don't think it's a schedule thing. I think it's whatever I chose on the TiVo for my season pass. The listings were all messed up. I'll have to see if I can find it again.

WW/Sistine Chapel - Yeah...no internet speculation back in his day. lol He certainly acted like a god among his creations....but what do you mean by that...do you think he assumed he couldn't be killed?

Mike V. said...

Mars - Found it on TiVo. There are so many shows/movies with MARS in the name it was like 20th down on the list. Anyway, they're reairing eps 2-4 before ep 5 airs next week so I'll be good!

Leslie said...

This is Us - Mike, yeah, I think the mantra will stay true....at least I hope so!

Anonymous said...

US--MidSeason finale ended in a sad way. So, Olivia bolted from everything--I guess she got cut deep. But, it doesn't seem logical that the show's producers would walk away from their investment. Again with the gay stuff, my wife's not happy either. Randall had a tough night. I've had those days when you just want to be with family and then you end up with a crowd--lol. It's all good though. BTW, the actor who plays Jack--Milo, also played Petyr in Heroes. Kind of strange to see him now being such a strong actor. I guess it shows how script, etc can make a difference.

Vikings--So Kattegat is essentially abandoned by fighting men and more now. I don't recall Ragnar going to England on this trip in such a weak position. I recall it very differently so I'm going to check. Bjorn and Astrid from prior seasons. Setting up a weakened Aslaug vs Lagertha fight. But that doesn't make sense since Ragnar's the King. BTW, Ragnar wouldn't still be King and be so weak--it never works that way. I did like Aslaug's officiating at the sacrifice, reminded me of S1.

Richard

Anonymous said...

US--Nothing bad happens on Christmas Eve--the family seemed to have that be true for a long time. The Rebecca/Kate stuff was good. I'm bumbed about Tobey.

Richard

Anonymous said...

Vikings--one thing to keep in mind is that they were illiterate and so the written information about them was done by some other group, normally Christian missionairies or similar. I've been enjoying the Real Vikings eps too. BTW, Ivar was supposed to have had brittle bone disease which doesn't make you impotent. And according to some records Aslaug did foresee the sea storm for Ragnar.

Richard

Mike V. said...

US - I'm assuming they're setting up a love triangle for Kevin. For your other comment...like I said, Richard...QUOTAS!! lol I thought they handled it okay though. And Randall's reaction was priceless. Did you just pick up that Jack was Peter Petrelli? lol He also was Jess on Gilmore Girls...not a show I watched but I watched the reunion season with my wife on Netflix. lol he was one of the better characters on Heroes though. And apparently he was really good on GG also.

I guess we're going to talk about this more openly now...yeah the Toby thing was rough. I just can't imagine them killing him off with a cliffhanger like that. But we'll see. I guess it could serve as motivation for Kate.

I'm surprised you didn't bring up that William from West World was the roof jumper!

Vikings - It's been a pretty slow start to the season. I get all the sons mixed up...but did they show us the crippled son die? Or is he just currently under water and we're going to see a miraculous save next week? I would think the latter based on my historical chats with you. lol

Guess I should've read further..it's IVAR. Well you know any chance they can find ways to use the expression "have sex" in VIKINGS they need to do it...so they made IVAR impotent. lol It's still the most jarring expression to hear in this ancient story. lol Just seems too modern an explanation!

They certainly seem to be moving Ragnar to the end of his story. He basically said goodbye to Aslaug (and maybe even Lagertha).

iZombie - Okay...so Blaine "did the hibbity dibbity" (that's what Vikings should start using) with Liv's best friend. But we also learned that the cure is not permanent. So does that mean that Blaine transferred the zombie virus to Miss Assistant DA? No one seems to be too concerned about the fact that they slept together (besides the fact that they slept together lol). So I guess while you're cured you're not able to pass the virus? I dunno...I'll just keep watching. I'm on episode 12. Right now LIV has a millennial brain and is hashtagging and instagramming everything. lol Maybe she'll ask for a vote recount by the end of the episode!! (whoops...went too far!)

Anonymous said...

US--I tried to be non direct with my Toby comments. I thought I knew the roof jumper from somewhere--lol. I FFD through that part with Randall's reaction. I think Toby's dead since he died at the end. But, wow they played with us and the timelines. Using Dr. K interchangeable with Toby. When Toby came down the stairs I said to myself, they've made him look worse than just after sex and it made me wonder if he was going to have a heart attack. Yea, I think the dangers of the surgery are now going to be outweighed by all in Kate's family by the dangers of a heart attack. And her mother heard about her binging and prozac use. BTW, sad but true, one of my wife's friend's has a sister in law(whom I know too) who had this surgery and has been near death several times. For the longest time they didn't know what was wrong with her. She's lost like around 200lbs but a lot of people are worried about her living. I had a friend do lap bands and that didn't seem to be as bad.

Vikings--I'm really surprised Ivar didn't kill the girl after he knew she lied and spread it around about him being impotent. Of all the sons, Bjorn might be considered the most successful as I recall. Ivar of course brought sheer terror to the people and they've set that up well. Like with his brother saying he was bothered by Ivar.

One thing, I know it's coming, it makes no sense, it didn't happen, it wouldn't have happened, even in this show it makes zero sense to happen and I guess I just need to departmentalise and laugh about it. But, they've been setting up this "huge" showdown between Lagertha and Aslaug.

Richard

MJ said...

This is Us - I watched last two back to back - mushroom thing was hysterical. Loved the list for his mother. So sad with little Randall asking people to roll their tongues was just heart breaking. And jack was awesome with him in that karate class. Lame with the chick in play just disappearing - she's a tony-winning actress - she wouldn't just leave the play like that. Just saying. But love the like the new girl - and her family.
Very touching when Rebecca realizes Kate's issues are from her always talking food with her as a kid. But yikes on those post-surgical issues. Did not see it coming that William was gay - but loved the little kid being the one to tell Randal. But - ugh - Toby better be ok ! Richard - normally agree with the gay stuff - it;s like every show has to have it now - but the are doing it well so I am ok. And Milo started on Gilmore Girls when he was younger - his character was supposed to be dark and brooding teenager. LOL He was ok. Not a popular char due to he replaced her other boyfriend (Dean) whom everyone adored (and later went to Supernatural). Roof Jumper was also on House of Cards. Either heart attack or DVT due to weight and being stuck on plane 5 hours.

Timeless - Mike I would say if you are still taping these you might want to check it out. It's a procedural sure - but it's more then that. They have really found their footing these days.

Mars - yeah at first Fios did not have ep names and numbers or descriptions so Tivo was going nutty figuring it out. But that was fixed by ep 2. Good about the re-airings. And yeah - another show airs on another channed right bef or after this one that is The Science of Mars or something.

iZombie - Right ! I was very worried about her friend after Blaine and the cure not being permanent. LOL on recount. I loved #Liz ! Hmm - what about Clive - the cop ? not sure if you got to something or not

MJ said...

Arrow - I don't watch but read today that Laurel is back ! Knew I read that spoiler somewhere.

Mike V. said...

This is Us - Yeah I wasn't bothered by the gay twist as much as I am with the heavy handed stuff on other shows. This played out well here. As for Toby...it was not clear that he was dead at the end of the episode. The heart monitor was still beeping. It would've been flat lining if he was dead. That was a clear cliffhanger. Which makes me think he'll be okay. But we'll see.

I know all of that GG stuff just from listening to my wife and watching the 4 episodes! lol

Timeless - Good to know. Family members have been asking if I watch too. I gotta get back into it. It'll take awhile...I'm 2 behind on Designated Survivor too! (which I heard they changed showrunners..I can take or leave the show. Not Must See for me)

iZombie - Clive knows about Blaine being involved with the Meat Cute murders. He's dating the other cop....but that's about all I know for now. I like that he's a Song of Ice and Fire fan and said GRRM is "not writing" when asked what he's up to. lol

Arrow - interesting! guess you were right!

Anonymous said...

US--I thought I heard the beeping go flat line.

Richard

Leslie said...

This is Us - I hope Toby isn't gonna die, but they left it open, so there's hope. I was SO happy to see him come to see Kate. He is good for her. I think the scare will help Kate to see what really matters which is Toby loves her just as she is, and she needs to hold onto him, and they can help each other.

I was so glad the doctor made it, and they stayed with him to help him through. Loved that Randall thanked him with the snow globe! As for Kevin, I didn't like the actress anyway, so I'm okay she left, but agree with Mike that they are probably setting up a triangle.

Gilmore Girls - So, Mike, what did you guys think? MJ, have you watched yet or do you plan to? I binged watched on the Friday after Thanksgiving. I laughed, I cried and I said, REALLY?

Mike V. said...

US - I don't think so..plus all the interviews kept his fate in the air. It's definitely not over. Good points on Toby/Kate Leslie!

Yeah it was all in all a good episode with revisiting the doc and Randall's gift to him. And yep on the love triangle. lol

GG - (Tread Carefully MJ if you haven't watched) My wife and I watched them Friday and Saturday after TG. I don't want to say too much because I don't think MJ watched yet. But yeah...that was pretty much the reaction. I get that this was ASP's vision of how the show should end, but it would've been more effective as the original series finale than when certain characters are older! But it is interesting that Rory is the same age as Loreli was when the show first started. So there was nice mirroring there. It was very sopranos esque where you're annoyed at first watch, but then you kind of process it and read stuff and maybe it's less of a "really?" reaction. lol But, I wasn't as invested in the show as the hardcore fans. I just watched those 4 and pieces of other eps.

Anonymous said...

US--I agree with Leslie on Toby/kate too. I haven't read the recaps. WEll, if it's supposed to be open then that would be great. I still think he went flat line. That doesn't mean they can't shock him with the paddles though. Usually the flat line ending is the onscreen death certainty.

Richard

Leslie said...

GG - Yeah, I don't want to ruin it for MJ. I was invested in this show and really enjoyed the 4 episodes. I liked Winter and Fall the best. I agree that the ending would have made more sense 10 years ago. Ugh, I'm not good at talking in code! So many things to say! Hopefully MJ will watch soon! Lol!

Mike V. said...

This is us - I didn't have to read any interviews to know that there was no flatline. I knew when the episode ended that the monitor was still beeping. Watch again or check YouTube lol

Gg - agreed! Lol

Anonymous said...

US-Yea, I did rewatch, had it on DVR. He went flatline, then they DID paddle shock him (the medical staff said clear, they stood back and then he was shocked) after that they went to the shot of his face laying there. My wife rewatched with me and said, "you know they always have more than one of those paddle shocks in dramas" So, yea there will be another one or two and he'll likely live.

Richard

Mike V. said...

US - Okay, I stand corrected. I missed the flatline that happened a few seconds before the end. Just heard that beeping and thought that was the heart monitor. Yep, he flatlined and they paddled once. They'll definitely do it again. lol

Mike V. said...

iZombie - Just finished episode 12 I think. Blaine and Major are on borrowed time. "New Hope" the hamster/rat died. But they found something in the ground at the end of the episode that they were excited about. I just wanted to comment because the whole ending sequence was to Les Mis "One Day More" so that was kinda awesome. Wish they used the original broadway cast version instead of the movie version with Russell Crowe stinking up the joint! lol