Monday, November 21, 2016

TV Discussion: Week of 11/20/2016 - 11/26/2016

Hello fellow TV Addicts!  This is our weekly place to discuss non-recapped shows.  See you in the comments!


Mike V. said...

WW - Sorry Richard, didn't get to WestWorld last night. It was too late. I did see some tweets that a "popular theory" may have been confirmed. That's more than I wanted to see but since I did I guess there's no use not bringing it up. lol But I won't read anything you have to say until tomorrow. I'll definitely watch tonight!

Mike V. said...

iZombie - I think I'm 5 episodes in. Major and Liv are back together. But red head Max Rager girl seems jealous so should be interesting what goes down there. Clive (is that the cop's name?) just received a piece of brain from a dead husband's beer fridge. So he must've been zombified. The brains have been funny this season. Country Girl, Sports fanatic, Fraternity Guy, Rich Socialite Still a solid show!

Anonymous said...

1. MIB/William theory was diminished by the scenes with William and Dolores being surrounded by the old narrative infrastructure. Some say enhanced with the appearance of a girl Teddy and MIB found, a girl who greeted William in ep2. Could she have been captured during what now is a 4 or so day narrative? Give and take in same ep.
2. So, it looks like Bernard also killed Elsie???
3. I was hoping for a Theresa robot, oh well.
4. Dolores's Dad carrying all the AI tech in his non working brain is kind of scarry--lol. It would be hilarious if he killed Charlotte.
5. The security head seemed to have questioned Bernard's status after the Theresa discussion.
6. The Maeve stuff was stupid long ago and continues to chase its' tail.
7. Honestly, the human/machine difference/ non difference, etc is starting to wear thin. It's like hearing the same good lecture over and over. Pretty soon even a great lecture gets old.
8. I saw the second half of the original movie this weekend. I think it was done in 1973--now that's forward thinking!!!! Makes today's writers look kind of stale. Anyway, there were three parks/narratives--westworld, medieval world and roman world. You could tell the difference from their hands. Giving the robots infrared turned out to not be a safety advantage--lol. Anyway, it was great even though I remembered most of it.


MJ said...

AHS - all caught up on last 2 eps. Wow - they threw a third show in to this season, and then a 4th. Or was there really 5 of them ? I've lost count. Too funny. I know alot of people did not like this season - I thought it was amusing though. Thought the survivor was going to be the brit chick (Aubrey? Audrey). But then that actress came back as the reporter from Asylum! Nice touch. And PaleyFest was funny. Thought they said season 2 never aired - yet the girl mentioned it at PaleyFest. And finally Lee dies to save Flora. Certainly not the best season - but not as bad as I've heard some say .

iZombie - Yes - Clive is the cop. He cracks me up. That actor has the most interesting voice. I love the personalities when she is on the brains. Never saw her before this show but she is very talented.

Mike V. said...

iZombie - Yep...her multi-faceted talent reminds me of Tatiana Maslanay and Anna Torv....playing the same character but with a twist. I'm sure a lot of actresses could pull it off given the chance...but she is getting the chance and is awesome at it!

AHS - lol...I don't remember how many there were. I guess if you count the interview and the youtube stuff...maybe 5? And wait...was there even a survivor? I guess the daughter right? I thought they mentioned they weren't going to release season 2 but then eventually did. I dunno...but I thought that paleyfest thing was with the season 1 cast. I dunno...can't keep track of it all! I enjoyed this season. I think the shorter length helped it.

That said...if the show were not to come back on the air next year I wouldn't miss it. But I'm sure I'll tune in if it does! lol

Mike V. said...


1.) Yeah, once I saw the black steeple I thought we were in present day timeline with William/Dolores. But, I’m not so sure. I still feel like William’s story would be a great way to fill in Ed Harris’s back story. He did a big info dump in this latest episode but that would really flush it out more and give more opportunities for mirroring current events with past actions in the future (a la LOST’s strategy). Of course, it’s also showing the history of Dolores potentially too. Now there are theories that Dolores may actually BE Wyatt. I don’t know if I buy that. But apparently there is a lot of evidence to support it. Something with this girl showing up 3 times too…(Meeting William at the Train when he first arrived, being in the beginning of the park past with Dolores’s memory when they’re all learning to dance and then being the girl that Teddy “saves” but turns out to be a double agent for Wyatt)…. And Maybe MIB wants to bring Teddy along as leverage to deal with Dolores’s current status in the park. Granted…that wouldn’t explain MIB’s first loop through this season where Dolores was still hanging out in her house…. But now Teddy is getting memories too? Crazy.
2.) I would assume Bernard at least “TOOK” Elsie. Probably killed but if we didn’t see her die I still assume she’s alive.
3.) Yeah…I didn’t even put 2 and 2 together. The fact that everyone knows Theresa is dead pretty much rules that out. But Ford is definitely building someone!
4.) It would be hilarious if Dolores Dad killed Charlotte…wouldn’t rule it out! Is her goal to get him OUTSIDE the park? Not sure I caught all of that.
5.) Yep…I like to refer to the security head as “the other Hemsworth brother” because he is. Lol
6.) I still like the Maeve stuff…and it certainly seems to prove my assumption that the one guy is a host supporter. Hell maybe he’s even a host himself. (probably not) But I agree…without knowing why they’re doing what they’re doing it seems a bit ridiculous. But listening to a podcast today made me think a bit about the end game for this….what will Maeve see when she actually gets outside? I’ll bet that’s when we find out WHERE/WHEN they are.
7.) True…it is getting old. But it’s not bothering me yet. I think that’s really just Ford’s opinion on the matter.
8.) Yeah I really need to see the old movie. I had heard there were 3 parks. The showrunners of this show continue to say they’re focused on WestWorld…but kind of implied it might be in the cards to branch out. I’m sure the WRITERS of the world have a lot of bold ideas. It’s the studios determining what SELLS and what will make it to the theaters. I think a lot of these “original” ideas are coming out on streaming platforms because they have the venue to do it. Some limited series, some movies, some full fledged TV shows. But the problem is getting awareness to the content. There’s just so much now it’s tough to weed through it to find what you might like.

Anonymous said...

1--Dolores as Wyatt--OK, so a sex change--lol. Oh wait a minute, they're robots so CAN a robot have a sex change--lol? I mean there's no x or y chromosome--lol. That whole idea is so funny, kind of like a B movie syfy plot.
4. yea Charlotte is trying to steal the AI tech.
6. Maeve end game--it would help if they got it here sooner rather than later.
7. Rewatching the original Westworld is one thing that made me realize some of my frustrations with the over and over again repeated notion of yada yada machine/human stuff. It wasn't obsessively over and over driven by the movie. It gave the audience credit for being smart enough to keep up. Hence, more enjoyable in that regard.

Ford is portrayed as being almost god like in his knowledge of what goes on in the park. And so re the Maeve stuff, it's a canyon gap if you will. IE, how does he not know what she's up to. And if he knows, why is he letting it happen. There are cameras everywhere backstage and so the tech bleeding out on the floor would be easily seen. So, to me Ford either knows about this stuff or the shows cred suffers.


Mike V. said...

1.) Yeah I obviously haven't read up on the theory so I don't know the details but I can't really see entirely where it's coming from. lol

4.) Ahhh okay makes sense.

6.) I'm guessing episode 10. It's all building up to some big reveal on William/MIB stuff and Maeve escaping. Just feels like it'll all happen in the finale. But maybe it'll be Thrones style with a big episode 9 and 10 setting up what's next.

7.) Right...makes sense. Matrix didn't harp on it either. Except when Agent Smith would go into his big speeches. I can agree with you on this one. lol

Maybe Ford DOES know what Maeve is up to?? We haven't really seen them interact. I figure there are still secrets about who's working with whom that will be revealed. I see you got there in the last sentence.

I guess an alternative is that Ford may not know but is not concerned by it either.

I guess I need to know where the battle lines are. Is Ford all about controlling the hosts and not having them develop self-awareness? And is that what Arnold WAS for? And is there a war between these ideals within the park with Ford on one side and Arnold/Wyatt on the other?

Speaking of....Ford made a comment to Bernard about how Arnold once asked the questions he was asking. Kind of saw that as another potential tie-in to them being the same person.

Also....didn't the game makers refer to Wyatt as an intentional program that they want the guests wrapped up in? It was a throwaway line in a conversation, but I wonder if there's any merit to it?

Anonymous said...

I think Wyatt is part of the new narrative Ford is working on. One more dangerous. I say that because he reprogrammed TEddy in regards to Wyatt as a part of this new narative.

There is definitely a connection between ARnold, Dolores and Bernard. I think it's more AI than just physical presence and so transcends time in a way. And yes, Ford is on one side and Arnold on another in regards to these robots reaching conscienciousness. Bernard is in many ways responsible for Maeve and Dolores waking up if you will. It's like Bernard is doing what ARnold wants him to do. One question is, was ARnold ever human? Probably so, but he transcended into AI. Which makes what Charlotte is doing an even bigger deal and potentially have more severe consequences. She doesn't know what she's stealing.

And who's really in charge here. If you recall the Transcendence movie, it's almost impossible to control a conscious AI. You can't steal it. And in the end he spread himself across the area with "smart" raindrops so he couldn't be stopped.

We don't know who the bad guys are yet really. For example, here are 2 possibilities:

1. If Arnold wants to take over everything and Ford is the only one who can stop him.
2. If Ford is a sociopath that wants total control and to feel godlike while Arnold is the only one who can stop him.

BTW, Delos is in the original movie.


Mike V. said...


Okay, so Delos is aware of the new narrative and Wyatt I assume and that's why they brought it up?

Very true on Bernard waking up Maeve and Dolores. And is probably Arnold pulling the strings (if Bernard isn't Arnold himself at least consciousness uploaded in Bernard).... I don't think Arnold is human anymore. I think he was. Of course that's just us theorizing for weeks now...but I think we were told he died so it would make logical sense given the environment of the show. And right on Charlotte.

I actually never saw Transcendence...but the previews were pretty impactful. lol But yes...once the AI is conscious that's when the SH*T starts to hit the all movies/TV shows about the subject. lol Terminator, Matrix, WestWorld, Transcendence, AI....there's tons of them.

Yep...makes sense on the 2 possibilities of "bad guys"....most likey there will be some ambiguity to who really are the bad people. That's what shows these days like to do. But the warring factions make sense.

Anonymous said...

Original WW--after rewatching it occured to me that it was probably the first movie of this type. Terminator and many others came after and copied it in many ways. The Yul Brenner walk vs Terminator walk. The Yul Brenner saying "draw" and Terminator--"I'll be back" Just classic stuff.

Yea, Arnold being human, dying and transcending is the likely situation. I still think it possible that Delos wants this tech to do the same thing for potential immortality too.

LOL on ambiguity.


MJ said...

AHS - agreed on all accounts

Supergirl - I did a 'huh?' at first when the robot was the original Hank Henshaw killed by her step dad. I'd totally forgotten that one. And really - Supergirl could not have just hot-rayed Cadmus instead of doing it in the helmet ? Just saying. Would being a White Martian be so bad ? I know they slaughtered his people but he's on earth now and can still do his work with DEO, right ? Just like on Flash - whay are they assuming Caitlin will be a bad Frost - can't she be Frost and be good ? So too - can't a white martian be good ?

Anonymous said...

Original WW--Something just occured to me. The Yul Brenner character had no name. He was the original MIB. Makes me wonder.


Mike V. said...

WW - I was talking to someone at work who also saw the movie and said that Terminator definitely seemed inspired a lot from the original movie. I'll need to check it out.

Didn't Ford talk about how hosts were the superior being without disease and mortality? I guess you could apply real world concepts to the show and while invention usually starts with noble intentions, it usually ends up being used militaristically. Maybe they want to create super soldiers for an army? Of course...AI leaving the park could spell doom for the outside world.....but that's where we need to know what the outside world is!

Supergirl - You'd forgotten that the original Hank Henshaw worked with Dean Cain and that he killed him? I guess since I binged it it wasn't too far behind me. lol Fun Fact...Cyborg Superman is actually a character in DC comics. I remember it being related to the "death of superman" storyline in the comics. Anyway..I looked it up and Hank Henshaw is this character in the comics too. Guess that explains why he goes to the Fortress of Solitude at the end. He'll finish his conversion.

I didn't understand why being a White Martian would be bad either. lol I guess it's the principle of it all. Good point with Flash.

Mike V. said...

WW - Interesting, Richard. Not sure they'll keep that up for the entire series. Of course...on LOST they did have a name for the Man in Black, but decided it would be more of a letdown than never naming him at they just never did name him. lol.

Here...if it ends up being William, then I think the payoff is there for eventually naming him. If not? I dunno.

Anonymous said...

WW--They didn't call the Yul Brenner character, the MIB. But, he wore black and a black hat with black boots, black holster, etc. He was as far as I can tell the orignal MIB without actually being called that. Other bad guys dressed in black had names in film before.

I think what we find out and how the series plays out has a lot to do with its' longevity. The outside world is a question on several fronts but we know that life is easy street and boredom occurs regularly. BTW, if life is so boring why would you want immortality?

I'm very curious about procreation in the outside world. Do they have kids and if so how? Are people married thru romantic interests or are they assigned genetic appropriate mates, etc?? ARe they even married???


Anonymous said...

LOL, I just thought of an even earlier MIB. He was even named, The Man In Black on stage. ONe of my all time favorites.

Johnny Cash!

Of course he had a real name everyone knew, so not direct comparison.

Even my kids and their friends like Johnny Cash. Particulary the stuff he did when much older.

When you think about it Cash had 3 or so careers but his "comeback" at age 70+ was impressive, particularly with millenials who traditionally like similar aged performers.


Mike V. said...

WW - no one calls Ed Harris "the man in black" either. viewers pretty much call any man dressed in black without a name "the man in black". and Johnny Cash lol For the TV characters's just seeing them on a weekly basis without having a have to call them something!

(I honestly didn't look at your 2nd comment before making my Johnny Cash reference lol)

lol on boring life and immortality. Fair point. Maybe people live for going to Westworld to not be bored!

There are lots of questions on how things work in the outside world. Based on Ed Harris's commentary he had a wife and daughter and it sounded like he had a relatively normal existence outside of the park until his family died.

Yep...Cash definitely had a long career.

MJ said...

This is Us - just watched last weeks. Nothing to say. Still liking the show

Flash - Yup - they are making her bad. More later - gotta run

Mike V. said...

This is us - all caught up. Thanksgiving ep was really good!

Flash - are they though? I thought by the end hey left it ambiguous lol

I'm out for the rest of the week btw. Happy thanksgiving all!

MJ said...

Flash - Still not liking HR much. He's useless pretty much despite his 2 suggestions in this ep. Feel bad for Cisco. And Barry for having to give up his job. So - thought all along that Malfoy was Alchemy but Savitar seemed to be asking him to become Alchemy ? So he wasn't before ? I got confused on that one. Read that Kevin Smith directed this one. As to your coment - they let her attempt to control it - but when she is Frost she is bad I felt. It's just a matter of time before she can't stop it from coming to the surface though. Next week is the 4 way crossover - starts Monday. FYI

Mars - saw the first one - I liked it as well.

I'm out as well. Happy Turkey Day everyone.

Mike V. said...

Flash - meant to say we were right about the obvious alchemy thing. But good call on maybe he wasn't always. Already have TiVo set for all crossover eps!

At moana with the kiddies right now! :)