Sunday, June 2, 2013

TV Discussion: Week of 6/2/2013 - 6/8/2013

Hello TV Addicts!  Here's our weekly place to discuss the non-recapped shows.  We're getting into Summer territory and probably starting next week I'll just be putting "monthly" posts up.  But the reason this one has been scheduled to automatically post on Sunday 6/2/2013 at 10:00pm is to give everyone the opportunity to discuss Game of Thrones Season 3 Episode 9: The Rains of Castamere as soon as possible.   If you've seen it, you'll know why.   As always, we have some book readers and some non-book readers.  So, we'll try to precede any book stuff that hasn't been covered by the show with a "SPOILER WARNING".   See you in the comments!


Mike V. said...

Game of Thrones - RED WEDDING!!!!!!!!! Whew I've been waiting awhile to be able to spell out RW! Lol. Crazy crazy ep. Most of it directly from the book and the main inspiration that got this show made in the first place. I'll write more tomorrow but will post links to lots of articles going up tonight!

Mike V. said...

Anonymous said...

Rob's wife being killed and baby was tough. Catelyn's big scenes were great. I loved when she pulled Roose's sleeve back to see his chain mail.

Dany's group starting their action was at least some action, but I would like to have seen more. The blood on their faces was tough too.


Mike V. said...

I figured that was the only route they could go with talisa since we never heard of Robb's wife being pregnant in the books. Of course now Robb's wife in the books is still alive and talisa is dead so does that definitely mean she won't be important in books? One would think so lol

Pulling back the sleeve was great.

I'm sure there were budget constraints to the yunkai stuff but it worked! Bran's stuff was great too. I figured that's where we'd get to this season.

Anonymous said...

Ygritte seemed so shock when JS took off. She wanted him to look after her.

Gregor looking after Arya was pretty good.

So much to say on this ep and it was soo good.


Mike V. said...

Grrm interview

mj said...

OMFG! Are u kidding me ?!? House Stark is oblitefated of all adults! While i give credit to Mike and Richard for keeping their knowledge under wraps I have to say it was great fun to be so surprised and shocked! I almost feel bad that u knew it was coming. More tomm - but I am going on record as pissed they killed the wolf! Lol. RIP Robb, Catelyn and Talisa. Prob Edmure too.

mj said...

Meant obliterated. Sigh

Anonymous said...

GoT--Melissandre will point out it was the lord of light with the slug that killed him. I wonder if she'll be able to do her sacrifice now?

I loved when the reynes of castemere started playing, Catelyn sure understood something was up. Ironic given Robb's plan to take over Castemere. The RW sure points out how Frey takes oaths and remember how Robb's men didn't like it when he broke his vow to marry Talissa.

When the Stark banner was burning it sure implied the house was dead. But we know there are 4 who can bring it back.

So, as far as the war of the kings go, we now are left with Stannis and Joffrey, oh yea and Beylon but I didn't think of him as that important early on.


Anonymous said...

Madmen--Wow what a great ep too. Don's scenes during the commercials with Roger, Peggy and I forgot were great.

Peter looks to be right about Ted taking over the heart of the agency. Don doesn't see it yet, maybe because he knows he can take it back. I just can't get to upset about Peter having a hard time though and even rooted for Joanne in her challenging Peter. Loved when Ted told Peter that possession is 9/10ths.

Interesting that Joanne and Peggy couldn't come up with something great to help Avon.


Mike V. said...

Game of Thrones:

Once again...another reason why "Weddings are Coming" would've been a great tag line for this season! lol When I was reading the books...I already knew that something called a "red wedding" existed. I knew that the producers were inspired by it to create the show. I figured out it happened in the 3rd book but I still had no idea what it was. And while I was reading the 3rd book, I found out that there wasn't just one I was anticipating something happening at each wedding I stumbled upon! lol But, I knew once I read it that I had read the RED Wedding and it still shocked me. I had to read it a couple times to make sure I understood it.

In case you didn't catch it. "The Rains of Castamere" (also the name of the ep) did play alarming Catelyn that something was up.

Now you can piece together the events that led up to this event. Remember all of those scenes of Tywin Lannister writing letters? If you freeze frame some of those, you can see mentions of weddings and such. He pretty much organized the end of the Stark campaign in a stategic war of paper. Hence, why Roose Bolton also switched allegiances....he was adamant at getting Jaime Lannister back to King's Landing and that Tywin would not blame him for the maiming. Roose knew that was the better play than staying loyal to the Stark army. Tywin told Cersei that he was doing everything in his power to get Jaime Lannister back....(while he was writing a letter or multiple letters). Her certainly did.

This, obviously, is a game changer in the show/novels. And it sets the course for the rest of the series. The crazy thing is...there's still so many things in book 3 that followed RW that there's plenty to cover in season 4!! (even though RW happened 2/3rds of the way into book 3) Obviously, I won't be getting into any of that. But, needless to say RW is the biggest spoiler that people have been trying to avoid. It's right up there with Ned's beheading. (or higher than that) GRRM's interview that I linked to explained why he wrote these.

One thing that I missed from the books and I thought would happen in that opening tent scene was that Robb wrote a letter to the NIght's Watch naming Jon Snow is heir to Winterfell. He told Catelyn of his decision as well. They thought he was the only one left at the time that he wrote it. But of course, with Talisa preganant, that child would be the heir.

And of course, there's the heartbreaking side of things that Arya almost made it back to her family and then her family is ripped away from her.

I love that they mirrored this storyline with Bran almost coming into contact with Jon Snow as well. And they advanced his warging skills as well...and showed him "ALMOST" take control of Hodor.

Osha and Rickon are finally on their way to somewhere else. in the books that happened at the end of Book 2...but since we hadn't met Jojen and Meera until this season I guess they wanted to prep our transition. If they stick to the books, they've essentially written out Osha from the show....unless Rickon plays a large part later on in the series. I guess he could always be the heir to Winterfell himself when all is said and done (Bran said as much).

Then the Yunkai stuff...not much to say there...except Dany has conquered yet another city in Slaver's Bay.

I will say that I probably would've been absolutely floored by the Red Wedding if I didn't know anything about it. But, instead, I've been anticipating it all season and today I was walking around all giddy with excitement. And as it was happening I just had to brace myself to get through it. Whew...they did such a good job with it! I'm glad Richard and I didn't ruin anything for you and hopefully anyone else reading. I think even in our spoiler sections we still were very vague because we didn't want to accidentally ruin it! lol

Mike V. said...

DIdn't see Mad Men yet. Baby had a fever last night so it was Jake and the Neverland Pirates until midnight! lol Hopefully, I can stay awake for that and Revolution tonight.

Game of Thrones - Yes, Mellisandre will definitely take credit for it. And maybe that will lead to her attempting a sacrifice. Good thought. Yep, Baylon and Joffrey are the only ones left. Him, the Baylon thing reminds me of another storyline that might end up starting next season even though it's technically book 4. At least...I think it's book 4...that plotline all runs together for me. lol

Forgot to also mention in the book, Robb's wolf suspected something was up the whole time....he was barking outside the castle and he never did that. They locked him up (hence why he was in that cage).....But, the direwolves are supposed to be symbolic to the Stark siblings that they are associated to. (I think AUSTARWARS told me that at some point) Anyway, the fact that Robb was dead meant that his direwolf essentially had to die as well. (symbolically speaking). (Catelyn interview - one more article to be posted on EW at 9am today)

Mike V. said...

Game of Thrones - Oh yeah...not sure if they'll explain this in the show...But, apparently wargs can live on in the creatures they warg with. So we saw when Orell was dying, he warged with his eagle one more time. So, if I were a betting man, that eagle may somehow make its way back to Mance...representing some kind of warning....maybe. :) lol (I'm just guessing here...I don't think that's how things went down in the book)

Anonymous said...

Good thought on Orell, he was warging.

Catelyn's throat being slashed was pretty hard to take.

Old Frey was holding back on his daughters--LOL. Edmure was actually liking this one. He's a Tully. I forgot what happened to him in the books, but there's a reason Frey had them leave before the killings.

Yea, Tywin will like the good news.


MJ said...

GofT: That was some brutal s**t ! This is exactly why I don't read the books first - being shocked by this is part of the fun. Man ! I kept wondering why they were showing Roose so much but could never guess at what was to come. I know Martin created all these chars but he really has it in for the Starks ! LOL And they are really the good guys when compared to these other families. And Robb is such an honorable man - except of course for going back on his word to Walder! LOL I'm still blown away by this whole thing. The actress who plays Catelyn was phenominal in that scene - you could see the pain of trying to save her son by killing an innocent woman. I'm assuming that the music was Rains of Castemere then ?

I'm going to catch up on you comments and go do some reading on Whew! I can't stop thinking about the show last night. So pissed that my one co-worker who watches if off today.

Mike V. said...

Game of thrones:

@Richard - Catelyn...and of course in the book she slashed up her own face and eyes pretty good. She basically went insane in her final moments. But, they did a good job showing that she still had totally lost it. At this point in the story she basically thought all of her children were dead. Maybe not Sansa, but that was maybe an inevitability.

Yep...Frey had one pretty daughter....crazy stuff. Yes, I still think Walder wanted the strong marriage to the Tully house even if he wanted revenge on Robb. But, since we don't know (from a TV show perspective) of Edmure's fate, we should hold off on discussing here! lol (we could in a spoiler area though) I did notice that Blackfish left the scene to "take a piss". So, there's a chance he got away unscathed even if Robb's entire army was destroyed.

@MJ -

I respect you for not reading the books to get the full effect. I was really wondering how this episode would go over for non-book readers. It has been hyped up so much by book readers...that if any non-reader saw the hints of RW, it may have been a let down. After watching the episode, they did it so well, that I don't see how it could be a letdown. It was outstanding. You should definitely read GRRM's interview about why he wrote the Red Wedding. He was setting it up from the beginning and basically it was all to defy expectations. There are still 4 more Starks in the story (5 if you include Snow). One has to think that they will get their vengeance one day. But, we shall see!

Yes, the song was Rains of Castamere. Not sure if you have the whole season on your DVR still..or have access to HBO Go. But you may want to rewatch some of the previous episodes now to pick up on the clues they dropped to set this up. Even Cersei telling the story about the song last episode pretty much describes how Tywin slaughtered an entire family out of existence.

Also, in the book..the band at the wedding were noticeably bad...and we found out because they weren't really musicians. They were trained archers. Which they still were in the show. And of course, the drummer was the drummer from Coldplay! (no, seriously it was lol)

MJ said...

G of T - poor Arya! So close to seeing her mother and brother. I know they had to kill the wolf - but did we have to see it lying there? I hate seeing animals dead. Guess we should mention some other stuff did happen in the ep. What happened to all those crows that were chasing Sam and Gilly ? And Bran finally did something - even if it was only to put Hodor in a trance (that's what I'm calling it anyway). Jon Snow has to be the worst liar ever! LOL So I know that Jon's wolf could not follow him since he had to climb the wall - but where is he then? Guess it's unimportant to the story really but I thought you couldn't leave them behind. But the silence at the end of the ep made it all the more powerful.

You see the invitation EW made ? Awesome.

Melisandre prob will try to say it was her God that did this but we all know it was Robb going back on his mothers word given to Frey, plus Jamie killing Roose's half brother in Robb's camp, and Robb's mom letting Jamie go - all that is what killed him. Since Roose said courtesy of the Lannisters I guess we are to assume that Tywin is the one who stoked Walder and Roose's anger and talked them into doing this.

Mike - yes - without having read the book and having avoided all book talk I was absolutely floored. Beyond floored. Read martin's comments about his fantasys not being the typical and the hero doesn't get the usual hero's journey - and he ain't lying ! LOL I'd have said the Starks would be the victors at the end of the series truthfully. I doubt that now. I know there is still Bran and Richon but i don't see it coming back to them. I doubt a bastard could rule nor a woman. But they are around for some vengeance - or to back the Targaeryns maybe. The enemy of my enemy and all that. But - since the Targaeryns really are the ones who should be on the throne I don't expect them to win in the end either. LOL

MJ said...

Holy crap ! Just had a thought. Was wondering if Edmure was also murdered and of course her uncle would have been too so it would be decimating the Tully clan. Then it hit me that Catelyns uncle left right before it all jumped off. Could the Tullys be in the know about it ? Noooo ! No way !

AUStarwars said...

Without giving away anything..

1. Dont feel bad for Arya we should be saying "you would have been killed too, and the droids would now be in the hands of the Empire"

2. I wouldnt call Tywin "happy," you do understand he is the one who set this all up right? They didnt play Rains of Castamere because they wanted to endear themselves to Tywin, they were showing it was his plan the entire time

3. When I read the books the first time I was admittedly upset..because i think as i was reading them i was still in the whole notion of "fantasy novel writing" that the "good guys" win out..but thats not what these books are about..thats why i dont understand why people are so upset..what makes these books great is the gritty realism and lack of idealism that wins out..Robb Stark screwed up, big time, and he paid for it..big time..same with Catelyn, there is no room for error..remember in the end this is the GAME OF THRONES, not the game of candy land...

now, what many do feel is this is a story about "Ned Starks Children" (and i am saying Ned Stark because it IS a story about many STARK not getting into it lol), but in reality Im not sure it is..we feel for them because of all that happens to them, but Robb Stark was not the protagonist..i mean do you feel just as bad for Stannis? who had a more legitimate claim to the throne? No, because hes not as tragic/good looking/righteous character

whoever the protagonist and antagonists are at any one moment in the story are up for interpretation, but you cannot deny that Tywin Lannister is the best player of the Game of Thrones...

Robb needed to die to show you who the true heroes of this story are: Jon Snow and Danaerys (who is actually really annoying but anyway) and another who still has more incredible things to do...Rob was never going to "win" because hes not in a fair fight

AUStarwars said...

oh and about the the books pretty much all the Stark children are "Wargs" in some way shape or form, the show doesnt show it but Jon Snow, Arya, and even Rickon and Robb, can enter their Direwolves (at night in their dreams) but not as controlled as Bran...the show (probly for money reasons) doesnt do this, but for example Nymeria (Arya's wolf) has been attacking Lannister armies with a pack of wolves ever since season one where she left and Lady was killed

this may be a long winded way of saying "The reason Sansa Stark sucks is cause she allowed Lady to be killed"...cause she obviously sucks..

Mike V. said...

Game of Thrones:


I guess we didn't have to see a dead direwolf, but it just added to the brutality of the event. The crows weren't really chasing Sam and Gilly. I think they arrived there due to what else arrived there. And it may or may not have had to do with the weirwood tree that they were all perched on. But, in any case, it's not relevant to Sam and Gilly's story.

Bran almost WARGED with Hodor (i.e. took over his body) which is something that no warg has been able to do before Bran. They warg with creatures but not people/giants. Jon's dog was following around Sam at the beginning of this season. As for where he is now? Dunno...but I'm sure he'll find his way back to Jon. Agreed the silence at the end was really all you could do for this ep! either than or beat a dead horse by playing "rains" one more time. lol

I did see the invite...that was the "one more link" i was waiting for in one of my earlier posts. lol

As for Tywin pulling the strings...yes. I mentioned it in my posts above as well. Those scenes of him writing letters earlier this season was him setting up this grand wedding. Don't forget Jaime also told Roose "tell Robb the I send my regards" before he left. IN the book, he says Ca.not Robb...and Roose goes up to Catelyn and says "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" and then slices her throat. They switched it up a bit...probably also to distance Jaime from this massacre which he had nothing to do with. (except being a pawn of his father to get Roose Bolton involved)

I still think the Starks will rise by the end of this series. I'd put my faith in Arya and Bran...maybe even Sansa (regardless of AUSTARWARS and more than half of the thrones fandom's thoughts on her). Even Jon Snow....but there are theories to who his parents truly are, but that doesn't mean he does not have Stark blood!

I think all the families have their part to play...and within the families are good people vs. bad people (i.e. Tyrion is good even though he's a lannister...Jaime is coming around). But, in the end, it's all Ice (white walkers) vs. Fire (dragons).....Dany and Jon have HUGE roles in the final act of this story. I would assume.

As for your Tully theory...I could see why you would think that, but I think it was more of a reason to keep Blackfish alive after the Red Wedding (he does play a role later on lol). As for Edmure, no comment. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough!

AUSW - I want to respond to you also but I'm running out of time before my meeting! But, I agree with most of what you said if not all!! I still don't mind Sansa though. lol

MJ said...

AUStarwars - I wouldn't say everyone is upset - just blown away. I guess I'm reading today that some folks who read the book then stopped reading and such things. I'm not upset in that way but It's sad that we won't get to hang with these characters any more - as it is with every show I like and someone dies. The brutality of it was just so in your face - and I loved it. LOL Not just one but two supposed allies turned on them to align with the Lannisters and take out the Starks. I personally never felt that this was a story about Starks kids but I can see how some could. You bookies have said it yourself - Robb and his mom were smaller characters in the books, not even point of view characters. But the TV show has certainly made them very main chars and alot of the storylines could be seen as how they affect the Starks. So I can see that the tv shows small changes have made it feel like it was all about the Starks for so many watchers. With the exception of Dany (off the top of my head) every other story can somehow be traced back to how it affects the Starks - so I can see some viewers feeling that it is all about them.

What you are forgetting for alot of viewers is that Dany and Jon Snow are not yet heroes for some of them - they don't know what is coming like the book readers.

Mike - i just hate seeing animals hurt - I'm a sucker. LOL I'll watch horror movies where everything is sliced and diced but don't hurt that dog damnit. But yes, it highlighted the brutality of it all. See now I'd have sworn those birds were chasing Sam down - I was so puzzled by that last week! I knew that Bran warged - but i didn't know how to say Hodor was in a warg? A wargee ?

I find Sansa just a silly girl, don't hate the character as some do. Was interesting that she actually stated she was 14 last ep - I think to remind us fans that she's just a girl still. She's probably more typical of how a young girl should be and Arya being such a tomboy is not how most are really.

Ok - so the Tully's weren't in on it then. I think I'm glad of that.

Mike V. said...



1. Nice one. lol

2. I think Richard was just saying that Tywin will be happy that his plan went off without a hitch. I could be mistaken though! lol

3. LOL...I think I got more into the "stark" thing than you did. :) Robb Stark was never the protaganist. He wasn't even a POV character in the books. But we did spend a lot of time with him...and on the show they made him more of a presence than he was in the books. But no....we're seeing just how far being GOOD and Honorable get you in this world. That's why Arya is staying alive out there!

Yep...we've discussed before but Tywin is definitely a master strategist and even if he comes off as the enemy, he is a pure genius. But, we are meant to root for Arya, Tyrion, now Jaime, Dany, Sansa...we're meant to root against Joffrey, Cersei, Tywin, Walder Frey, now the Boltons, maybe the Greyjoys outside of Theon...maybe not. lol

Like you said, it depends on the moment we're in. In the book, it depends on who's perspective we're reading. The funny thing about when Cersei finally started getting POV chapters in the books...she still came out all evil as hell. She is just a bad egg! lol The show actually tries to make her more sympathetic than the books do.

The Direwolves thing is good to touch on. yeah, I'm not sure if they'll touch on the other Starks having wolf dreams. It would come in handy, especially with Arya as those dreams end up taking on some significance. already explained some of that. There is one wolf dream that I would hope we'd see though. They may not.

And funny on the Sansa comments. lol She really didn't allow Lady to be was Cersei's doing and Robert's order.

Mike V. said...

@MJ -

There are some people out there that refuse to watch the show anymore (they're lying or just reacting momentarily to what they saw)...and are comparing it to True Blood how they totally abandoned the source material. They don't understand that this is such a key scene that we've been building towards for 3 seasons and sets up so many other events that follow it as well. Comments sections are truly entertaining on these larger sites for comical reasons. On blogs like this they're entertaining because they're full of intelligence and insight! :-) Catelyn was actually a fairly large character in the books. She was a POV character in books 1-3 so any stories of Robb were usually from her perspective. But even so....Robb's death was still a pretty large deal in the books. It was the end of the Stark campaign in the war of 5 kings. It certainly was a big deal! But, we felt that emotion from Catelyn's perspective. When she found out he was married all the way through to the Red Wedding...she was so nervous and for good reason. But yeah...totally agree that TV viewers were probably falsely advertised to...but on purpose!

For the record...we do not know what is coming with Dany and Jon either....I always say it's the "SLOW BURN" of the series. We're focused on this essentially pointless "game of thrones"...when there is a larger threat looming in the north. That is no secret from the TV viewers either. Logic says that Dragons will fight these White walkers....along with armies armed with dragonglass. is dragon glass made? DRAGON FIRE!! lol (i think...) But the entire saga GRRM is writing is called a Song of Ice and Fire" which alludes to where this story is going. I just assume at some point....forces will be united against one common foe. And a lady with dragons coming in to save the day might be a shining beacon of hope for the gritty miserable Westeros. she might earn the throne that way. No one really knows!

Trust me...I do pretty well at separating what I know vs. what the TV audience knows. I don't forget!! :-) I just like to add insight where possible, or another way of looking at things having that additional book knowledge without spoiling what I know.

lol on Hodor. Hodor I guess was in the process of "being Warged"??? LOL I guess you just say Bran warged into Hodor. Of course he wasn't entirely successful, but he affected him.

Yes...Sansa had a dream of how her life would be...marrying a prince and being a queen one day and having a galamorous existence. Her life has become anything but. But, she has found strength in her uncomfortable surroundings and I think we'll be surprised with her story arc over the series. Book readers can't stand her story, but I think it's pretty interesting. Like you said..when you take it from the perspective that she's a silly girl...and you see what she's going works.

AUStarwars said...

im surprised that anyone that watches doesnt see Jon Snow and Daenrys as the main protagonists of their own stories, they are just disconnected from the Westeros' politics..there isnt "that much more" in the books for them beyond what we have seen so its not some spoiler info.

the show made Robb out to be the next "hero" but in reality, he was a very poor king, he never had a single minded purpose to take over Westeros..he was a failure at the Game, a catastrophic Failure

1. He failed to keep Tywin occupied so that Stannis could sac Kings the end Robb would have just gone home at that point, his revenge complete, he could have chosen to follow Stannis at that point if he wanted..regardless..

2. marrying for love over duty..this ultimately caused his downfall and allowed Tywin to put the seed of hatred in Walder Frey

3. The Karstark situation, though in the end im not sure WHAT the right answer here would have been..

4. The Jamie/Catelyn situation..this is all her fault, shes a moron too

i guess in the end i never saw Robb as tragic, maybe my first time reading it, but he was such a flawed "ruler", he had no shot against experts like Tywin..

another note, I do believe that all the Stark children are "Wargs", but since Bran cannot walk, he is more powerful to use this as his ability to move and interract with the world..its like a person who is blind that has hyper sensitive hearing (again, this is not a spoiler, its my theory)

Anonymous said...

Yes, I was saying that Tywin would be happy that things worked out as he planned.

This is a big deal and has a lot of effect. But as I've said before I am keeping an eye on the overall story of ice and fire. So, I watch the little tell tales, like Melissandre w/ Lightbringer and the blood of kings, things like that. I rewatch to pick up on what looks like nothing at the time but is a key item.

I was speaking with some at lunch today and they watch as well as rewatch. They aren't book readers and didn't realize that this season will only finish 1/2 of what is currently written. That made them very happy.

MIke, I think you're right about the next ep cliffhanger. That will be a shock to have a "new beginning"--lol.


Mike V. said...

Game of Thrones

@AUSW - Makes sense with the Wargs stuff. It definitely is more apparent in the books that all of the stark children could do it...but yes after Bran's crippling is when he started having the crazy dreams and walking around as a wolf at night. lol And of course, when he started seeing the 3 eyed raven. So, it definitely makes sense that his "senses" are enhanced due to his situation.

@Richard - I'm right there with you on the rewatching. I'm at a LOST level with my rewatching on this show. I've rewatched seasons 1 and 2 several times now...but season 3 I just did a rewatch of eps 1-8 over the past couple weeks...tomorrow will be ep 9! lol There's definitely a lot to look at with Mellisandre's story and what she's focused on.

That's cool with your non-book reader lunch discussion. lol Of course, this is all semantics but we're actually 2/3rds of the way through book 3. But might be halfway through what is already written. :-) lol Next season will be interesting on how much they draw out of the last erd of Storm of Swords vs. getting into book 4/5 territory. I think it will MOSTLY be the rest of book 3...there's a lot there that can take up a huge chunk of the season...but I think they'll start getting into 4/5 for some of the stories.

As for the cliffhanger, yeah the more I've thought about really is the best thing they can go with right now. There are plenty of other cliffhangers to choose from for season 4's end. I have my pick! Of pick might actually be the episode 9 of next season. Eh...we'll see how this season ends before I get too committed to an idea! lol

Mad Men - Watched it! It was an interesting one. Sterling Cooper and Partners. Interesting. Joan getting in on the picking up business end of things. Screwing over Pete....Peggy helping her out. I fast forwarded through those scenes they show in commercials..but i saw which ones they were. I didn't forget about them! lol You're probably right that Pete is seeing what is happening to the company and Don is blind to it. Good stuff.

Continuum - I saw this is already on Netflix I set the tivo and it's recording them all as it leads up to season 2. So, I may look to catch up on this!

Orphan Black - My tivo also picked up this entire season as well. So, maybe I'll get around to it! lol

Anonymous said...

I think Continuum starts 10PM this Friday. Also, it looks like all day they're doing S1

MJ said...

AUStarwars: Agree - Robb did not play the game well. I'm not sure it was really about being a king for him though. I think it was more about avenging ned's death and getting his sisters back. Being King wasn't his real ambition in it all I always felt. Interesting that you say you are surprised that people don't see Jon and Dany as main protagonists of their own story - because yes they are. But i think - just my opinion - is that for peeps who have not read the books they are not necessarily seperating out the stories. It's not his story or her story - its all one story in different locations. For the bookers you read it all from a very specific points of view but on the tv show it's all one big story. This might be the big disconnect for some of the viewers. On the show we hear and see Robbs actions and reactions and if I understand what the books did is that we only know Robbs stuff thru his moms eyes. Just saying.

With 2 more weddings I hear one will have huge repurcussions of things to come. That's all my friend told me and i don't want to know any more. LOL

Black Orphan - was surprisingly good. What a phenominal actress.

Mike V. said...

Continuum - Yeah...they are Richard.

*****Game of Thrones (BOOK STUFF!!! SPOILERS! SERIOUSLY DON'T READ!)*****

So, Michelle Fairley (sp) who played Catelyn has picked up a recurring gig on USA's SUITS. Of course, the comments are littered with curiosity from book fans due to a key upcoming twist either this season (we think) or next. I think the key word is "RECURRING"...which leaves her open to return to Game of Thrones if need be. I'm sure even if she's in season 4, 5, would be in a less major role. I'm sure there's something in her contract that will have her return.


Okay, it's safe to read again. lol

Leslie said...

Mad Men – Pete is just an a**! I’m glad Joan stuck it to him and Ted even backed her up! And, even though Peggy helped her in the end, she also threw the Jaguar guy up to her. Not nice! I was surprised Don seemed to not care about losing his name in the change.

Roger, Don and Harry at the party were pretty funny with Roger making all the short jokes and telling the one girl, “I AM this handsome and this rich.” Classic Roger! I noticed he directed this episode.

The Killing – Watched the 2 hour premiere. Still like the chemistry of the two detectives.

Mike V. said...

Game of thrones - just saw this on Facebook. Hysterical. Lol

I'll comment more on mad men later when I get a chance! :)

Mike V. said...

Mad Men - @Leslie - I guess it wasn't nice of Peggy...but Joan still did do that and it will always be a slight on her character! Don doesn't seem to care about much these days does he? lol The short jokes were fantastic. I almost remembered that character that is now a "movie producer". How about Don on the hash being all thirsty and ending up in the pool after an extended bait and switch? That was crazy. lol Reminded me of a Sopranos dream sequence....and of course Matthew Weiner is a disciple of Chris Chase and the Sopranos crew.

The Killing - I've heard good things about the season 3 premiere. Also heard I really don't even need to watch seasons 1 and 2 to catch up since it's a new case. But...we'll see if I get time to watch it!

**************Game of Thrones (BOOK DISCUSSION) - *************

So, a lot of people out on the internet have also been discussing LS as a possible cliffhanger. But, a lot of people think we're going to meet "coldhands" as the cliffhanger. My argument to that is that fans would love that, but would the general TV viewing population even care? If he happens to look like "Benjen Stark"....MAYBE a TV fan might recognize him. But, even in the books it's not confirmed if it's Benjen or not. Just used to be a popular theory. I think that scene may be in the season finale....but I don't know if it's powerful enough to be the cliffhanger. Where as LS hanging a F could pack an emotional punch and be a "hell yeah!" moment that would be a nice "pick-me-up" after RW. We'll see what happens! Looking forward to it either way!

MJ said...

red wedding cake

Mike V. said...

Good times. lol

MJ, did you see the Shameless news out there? Kinda spoilery but unavoidable since it's a casting announcement.

mj said...

I did! Jimmy is indeed dead. lol. they didn't actually state if show dropped him or he left

mj said...

Killing - didn't watch yet but looking fwd to it. I'm pulling an all nighter at work tonight then going away thu nite thru frk nite so prob won't get to it til the weekend

Mike V. said...

Shameless - Yeah kinda crazy that they announced that especially since they said he might come back for a couple episodes. I'm pretty sure the show can exist without him! He seemed more important early on but those Gallaghers are hysterical all by themselves!

Anonymous said...

GoT--Book Stuff_____

coldhands, not a bad idea and Ben Stark theory makes sense too. But I thought most of his action was in ADWD. Sam's pretty much at the wall, but those crows an ep ago could be an indicator too.

LS would be a more shocking ep.

They could intro both. Leaving the TV viewers wondering about some of what they'll be up to. And that adds to the magic/mystery.

Dany entering Yunkai could also be a part of the last ep.


Mike V. said...


Yeah...I think next season we're going to end up doing stuff from books 3, 4 AND 5. Some storylines are already near their book 3 completion points. This finale it would make sense for Bran, Jojen, Meera and Hodor to have their run-in with Sam, Gilly and Coldhands at the gate. Or maybe we'll just have Sam meet coldhands. The rest of Bran's story definitely is in ADWD...and Sam's story is in AFFC. But, actually...Sam still has some ASOS story left with Jon at Castle that will probably be next season. The problem is...there just isn't a lot more chapters of Bran in the books and they are so interesting when we get to them. So, we're probably going to get more of those "stalling scenes" that we got this season.

The Benjen theory of being Coldhands seemed kind of put to bed once ADWD came out, but I guess it's still possible that it is him. That's why I was saying...if he happened to look like Benjen that would make book fans go nuts. lol My guess is his face will be covered up.

I still don't think it's a shocking enough way to end the season we are in agreement there. I think we will be introduced to him...but I still think there will be a different cliffhanger.

I think most of the episode will deal with the fallout from the Red Wedding. There are still other events that happen at the Twins...not sure how much we'll see of it vs. hear of it or not see or hear of it. Arya still has lots to do with the Hound. (She needs to get Needle back!! I love that scene too so I'm hoping it's still going to be there)

Dany entering Yunkai...hmmm...I don't recall her staying there too much in the books before heading off to Meereen. But, considering she's going to be at Meereen for awhile, they'll probably save that for next season. lol Maybe she'll meet a character named Strong Belwas in Yunkai.....he originally was travelling with Artsan Whitebeard (i.e. Ser Barristan) but since that reveal happened early he wasn't needed. But, there still is a great moment with Belwas outside Meereen (I think). They also still have to have the part where Jorah is ousted for his initial betrayals against Dany. This originally happened when Barristan revealed himself. But, it also happened near the end of I assumed it would be next season.

So much to do....only 50-55 minutes left this season! :-)

Anonymous said...

GoT--Book Stuff+++++++

Yea, coldhands/Ben in ADWD--coldhands is a dead entity it seems. My take on it is maybe Ben became coldhands.

And the last greenseer stuff with Bran makes me wonder if Bran will takeover for the last greenseer. That might be a stretch though with my knowledge.

But, we know there's a big battle coming and it would be interesting if the Stark kids had so much to do with it.

I wish they did more with the wolves in the TV show.


Mike V. said...

************GOT BOOK STUFF*************

Coldhands - yes, that's the major theory that is/was out there. Benjen became him. Still could be. Just don't know!

Bran/Greenseer - yeah...that seems to be the route that is going. Now apparently the 3 eyed raven dude that's been linked into the tree for 100s of years or a big character in the Dunk and Egg tales (these side stories that GRRM wrote that precede the Game of Thrones Saga by 100 years)....I've been waiting for them to be published together in one book before snagging them up...i think that's supposed to happen later this year or next year. There will be 4 of them or something. lol

Yeah...I just assume the Stark kids (any that are surviving at that point) will be involved in the great battle.

And totally agree with the wolves. The wolf dreams are an interesting part of the book. They do it for Bran in the show but haven't done anyone else's. (jon's, arya's)....Arya has a key one coming up would be an interesting one to show...but it may spoil the LS reveal a bit. lol

Anonymous said...

GoT--I think I've said it before, but my daughter calls this the show where they kill of major characters every year--at least that's how her class/friends identify it.

I think she's right and so makes us very insecure whom might end up at the end "winning" or just surviving. I think this is intentional by GRRM.

BTW, GRRM was interviewed last night and said that some of the characters he met didn't know they were going to be killed off--because they hadn't read the books--LOL!!!

In a way I have a pb with Robb's wife being killed off since she wasn't in the books. In a way a major character--ok, so maybe an exaggeration--but she could have been--lol.


Mike V. said...

GoT -

Yes, you've mentioned that about your daughter before. Very true. There have been lots of shows that have killed off characters over the past decade and change. But, you never felt any real threat for the "LEADS"....AKA, you knew Jack Bauer, Tony Soprano, Jack Shephard would all live until at least the end of the show. We're facing the same question with Walter White now with the final 8 of Breaking Bad approaching.

But, Game of Thrones went ahead and killed the perceived leads/heroes twice now in 3 seasons. Of course, this show has the benefit of an already scripted out story in the books...which allows it to be daring. It allows it to cast actors like Sean Bean in the main parts because he knows he's only signed on for a year. LOST had talked about casting Michael Keaton as Jack Shephard and killing him off in the pilot episode. But, the studio execs saw their hero there and thought that the viewers wouldn't be on board.

Anyway, I did see that interview with GRRM. It was on Conan the other night. I thought that line was funny about the actors that said "please don't kill me" lol And they already were dead in the books! At one point it seemed like he was referring to books that haven't been released yet...but I don't think he was. He also made reference to there being at least 4 characters that are still alive in the books that are dead on the show now. And he said that he hopes that the show and books will end up in the same place but "we'll see" lol

So, he is referring to Jeyne Westerling (Robb's original wife), I think a couple of Dany's handmaidens and then her right hand Dothraki guy who lost his head (because the actor had a conflict lol). I can't think of any major characters (or who we perceive as major characters) that have been killed off.

The biggest concern I would think would be if Jeyne Westerling IS indeed pregnant and that is a key plot point in future books. But, I figured since GRRM wrote the episode where Talisa announced her pregnancy that he was in the loop of what they were trying to set up for the Red Wedding.

Should be interesting to see where things end up! He did mention that book 6 will be another 1500 page I love how he just throws out these numbers even though he's in the middle of writing. He has often written too much where books have to be split up! I think even A Storm of Swords was released in 2 halves in some places of the world. And obviously A Feast For Crows was only half of the POV's that were in play at the time. lol

Anonymous said...

GoT, I'm not sure if more than 7 books makes sense esp with Dunk/Egg, etc. But, hey I'm not really a good guy to ask. I'm not sure more than 8 seasons on HBO makes sense, but with interest increasing, HBO may want 10 seasons--LOL.

Since he knows the end points and has 5 books (theoretically out of 7) done in that direction, GRRM would basically be filling in details I guess. I would just hate to see it diluted.

We don't really know who to align ourselves with over the long term, ie like Robb getting killed. And that makes for interesting viewing, maybe even more involved so that I can try to figure out who's going to be standing in the end.

As things develop and given his desire to shock us, it would not be a huge surprise(certainly one though) to me if Dany and/or Jon were killed off.

Just a thought and maybe totally crazy, but unlike Harry Potter, it would be kind of neat if the last chapters of the last book were released on the day the last show was broadcast. That way, the viewers and book readers are equally surprised.


Mike V. said...

GoT - Still discussing the book but it's vague enough that it's not spoilery!

One could argue that the story is already dilluted. The man just keeps creating new characters and writes A LOT about them. lol But, it all seems relevant. Some can just consider it boring and confusing when you get into these chapters of new characters. At this point in the story, you really just want to follow your favorite characters and see what they're up to. But, it allows him to show us more of his locales on the map and also how the game is impacting everyone and how they're all involved. The problem is...the more characters he introduces, the more storylines there are, the bigger the books become...and then he ends up having to split them up again. I think this series was originally supposed to be a trilogy or a 5 book series. lol The Dunk/Egg stuff is just writing more stories in Westeros. GRRM has said he will not stop writing about Westeros when the Song of Ice and Fire is complete. There will be more stories.

Anyway, yes...he knows where it's going to end...but a lot of his problem was getting characters to the right places on the map to get to that end. I think he's there yes at this point, it's a matter of just writing to that point (we think).

And the's in a unique situation that the story won't really get stale if there are still books to use as source material. But, the actors will keep getting older and some argue that these later books aren't as strong as the first 3. Plus, you have to keep renewing contracts and the actors start demanding more money and all that fun stuff. So, yeah...there may be a point where the show and the books have to part ways with each other. (which would suck!)

Interesting idea with the release of the chapters when the series finale airs. lol I don't see any way in which that would actually work!! lol But, it definitely is an interesting idea!

******OKAY THIS STUFF IS SPOILERY!!! ****************'s tough to know who to align with. I think we have our idea where things are going for the end game...but, that doesn't mean things will necessarily end in a predictable fashion. But yes...Dany or Jon being killed off would be a huge shocker. Of course, the way book 5 ended...we're left wondering if one of those things DID indeed happen. I really don't think it did. Or it did...but it's all to fulfill a certain prophecy. lol


Anonymous said...

GoT--spoilery book STuff-------

Yea, AT(btw, I kind of like code letters--LOL--as long as I understand them) coming onto the scene later makes a lot of questions come up about the T line and destiny, etc. And certainly challenges DT. (sidenote, JS is of T blood too). If AT only had dragons--LOL.

In a way, AT is in the back of my mind going to be key in the end. But GRRM has said that this won't end like traditional stories. There will be no clear cut winners riding off into the sunset so to speak and all evil defeated. The last point of particular importance to him as I understand it.

Interesting info, no one I speak with has heard of lightbringer, AA or TPTWP. In my opinion, after the beach scene with Stannis and the sword the TV audience should at least know about lightbringer, since that was the purpose. Melissandre has also spoken of the one that was promised or the special one of the bloodline, AA or TPTWP. In a way I love this and in a way I would love to speak with them about those key elements. Maybe lightbringer wouldn't be bad? BTW, some of these people say they've read the books--LOL.


Mike V. said...

GoT - Spoilery Stuff

Yeah...I think there's something in the prophecy about a "false king" too or something like that which I figured AT would fit into. It's possible to read the books and totally blank out on the prophecy stuff. It's not until reading up on the wikis while or after reading that you start piecing together all of that stuff. At least when I read it I wasn't thinking about it. I was just reading the plots for what they are. Even Dany's time in the House of the Undying...I wasn't thinking about the symbolism and I didn't tie future events back to it...but when I read what each thing was it makes sense in hindsight. So if people read the books but didn't continue to analyze, that is all possible that they wouldn't think of it. Same with a TV viewer seeing the scene on the beach with Lightbringer. That really isn't enough on its own to get people thinking about the prophecies and what it all means. But yes...for avid book readers, they appreciate that scene being there.

As for clear cut winners and losers....yeah I just assume that there are certain people from each house that will end up being important in the end game. The heroes we're following now are JS/DT/TL/AS/SS/BS/JL...they'll all have their roles to play pending they're still alive for the endgame. But, I don't think they'll be fighting for their respective houses. I feel like they'll be fighting their common foe. Though...maybe that's a traditional way to look at things too. Who knows? There's also the possibility that NO ONE will sit on the iron throne. There's a possibility the throne will be destroyed....and that will be symbolic of the breaking up of the realm. Maybe the Starks will take back the north......i dunno...

I just feel like there will have to be minor victories though. The Starks do need some kind of redemption in the end....even if that's would be a nice touch. Especially with the JS reveal...if it's true (it has to be, right? lol) ...that would ultimately redeem Eddard Stark...he would be a completely moral man up to his death. Played the game poorly but at least he never did anyone any wrong. Including dishonoring his wife and family.

We'll see what happens one day! lol