Saturday, February 26, 2011

Fringe: Season 3 Episode 15 - Subject 13

Welcome Fringe Friends!  What a fantastic episode last night, wouldn't you agree?  The beauty of this show is that they have created 3 different worlds that would be great stories all by themselves.  There is the Fringe story we've been following since season 1 with Peter, Walter, Olivia in our present world.  There is the alternate universe story where we have gotten to know Fauxlivia, Walternate, Alt-Charlie, Lincoln and a slightly (sometimes dramatically) altered universe from our own.  But now, we have spent 2 episodes in the PAST watching how some key events transpired to set up our current conflicts.  But, I have to say, I could spend an entire series following Walter, his wife and young Peter and Olivia.  Great stuff.  Of course we can't discount that we spent some time "OVER THERE" in 1985 as well.   The fact that this show has gone so far as to change the opening credits for each of these 3 different worlds just adds to that feeling that these shows could exist on their own.  Anyway, episodes like this make me want to break out that "W" word that I always used with LOST when reviewing.  But, I'm sorry, I still have been able to LET GO and MOVE ON!   So, we'll just have to some up this show with something different.  Eh, since we were in 1985 we'll go with an oldie but a goody:  GREAT SCOTT!!!

The episode dealt with the fallout on both sides from Walter crossing worlds and bringing Peter back to cure him.  It adds a little more justification to why Walter and his wife ended up keeping Peter over here.  It wasn't for lack of trying to send him back.  On the other side, Walternate was dealing with the perplexing loss of his son.  But the best part was how he discovered where Peter actually was, setting up the course of events that would lead to our current struggle.  Yes, I'm sure some will complain that this episode dealt nothing with the First People, the Observers (who could be one of the same), Sam Weiss, Ancient Tech and continued to show the destiny of Peter and Olivia's kinship.  And I guess that some viewers can justifiably be angry that Fringe has leaned a little more on the emotional drama side of things than advancing the SCI-FI-esque plot points.  Hey, I love the sci-fi stuff as much as the next guy, but I also think the Fringe powers that be know what they're doing.  And all I will say is, I have faith that it is all coming.  In the meantime, adding depth to the characters that are immersed in this Sci-Fi Epic will only help to add additional layers of satisfaction when they are faced with saving the universes or whatever we have in store for them.  But that is just one man's opinion.  Everyone is entitled to their own.  Anyway, enough with my blabbering on, let's get tot he recap!

Over Here

So we learn that things are not going so well for young Walter Bishop and his wife Elizabeth. Peter is not taking to his unfamiliar surroundings very well. In the beginning of the episode we see him walking back to the iced over Reiden Lake with a heavy brick of some sort. He left a note for his look-a-like mother saying that he's going back home. Elizabeth panics and runs after him. Young Peter believes that he came to this new world when he fell into the icy water.   

I guess I could see why he would think that, but would he really not think it happened when he walked through that crazy contraption that Walter built?  They even showed us that scene in the "previously on" clips to remind us!   Anyway, Peter drops the rock and falls straight through to the bottom.  Mrs. Bishop dives in after him and saves him.   Peter clearly thinks he is in the wrong place.  

Elizabeth panics and brings Peter to Florida where Walter is performing his studies on the future (or possibly current) cortexiphan children.  Walter and Elizabeth have been attempting to provide the illusion to Peter that he is with his real parents.  Peter is no fool and is not falling for the tricks.  He points out several differences (which we discus in our Observ'er'ations below) and just throws a fit.  Sidenote: they found great young actors for both Peter and Olivia.   The surprising part, however, is that we find out that both Walter and Elizabeth were on board with trying to get Peter back to his universe.  The lies were only meant to be temporary as Walter tried to develop a method to get Peter back and fulfill his promise to the OVER THERE Elizabeth.   We find out that it has been 6 months, which I have to say makes absolutely no sense.  How could Reiden lake have been frozen over when Walter took Peter and 6 months later when Peter attempted to go back? (I'm pretty sure that even New York experiences spring and summer!)  I guess the only explanation would be that the first scene where we see Peter going into the river does not take place at the same time as the Jacksonville events.  

Walter believes that the children are the key to crossing safely over.  Can we assume that Walter initiated his experiments with children in order to send Peter back?   Sure seems that way, right? 

Meanwhile, we meet a young Olivia who is not very happy that they are getting to go home early.   We find out that she grew up with a pretty abusive step-father which could explain her issues with commitment to men.   Of course, I guess we technically already knew that since in past episodes we learned that Olivia gets a card every birthdayHelprin's "Winter's Tale" which actually refers to a character that goes missing for years and also a love story between a boy named Peter and a girl named Olivia (just kidding, it's Beverly).  But, I'm sure the reference was intentional.   Anyway, evil step-dad apparently doesn't like when Olivia reads books late at night and he uses this as an excuse to get violent with her.   She starts running away and just as step dad was about to hit her, she finds herself in unfamiliar surroundings.  Indeed, she has crossed over after experiencing equal amounts of joy and fear.   Long enough to see something that would for sure identify that she was there.  Of course, she returns and gets a nice shiner.  

Much of the rest of the episode shows the bond between Peter and Elizabeth forming.  It seems that Peter has acknowledged he is in the wrong place for 2 months now.  Elizabeth tries to convince him that he was so ill that it is causing him to remember things differently.   Peter isn't buying it.  But she takes him to a toy store for him to pick out a toy and we slowly see them growing on each other.  

Walter returns to work the next day and wants to start experimenting with the children separately.  He finds that Olivia has not gone outside with the rest of the kids.  Walter goes to talk to her and sees the bruise around her eye.  Naturally, Olivia went with the "I fell" excuse.   Walter sees that Olivia has drawn a picture of a blimp flying in the night sky and it isn't long before he deduces that Olivia crossed over last night.   Walter realizes that the crossing over was triggered by an emotional response.  This goes down a nasty rabbit hole of him setting up experiments to trigger emotional responses from Olivia.  But that includes causing her fear.  Locking her in a room and turning the lights off and then putting makeup on Nick giving him the appearance of being dead?  YIKES, Walter!  It showed he would go to any extreme to get to his desired goal.  Of course, the goal was the good cause of trying to get Peter back to his world.  But we see the early signs of the lengths Walter was willing to go to.   But what was all that about Olivia causing the whole room to go up in a blaze of fire?  That was insane.  Walter realizes that the part of the brain that let Olivia cause the fire is the same part will let her cross over.   

Of course, now Olivia has gone missing, so that causes a bit of a problem!   Peter overhears this and he begins to do some investigation himself.  He opens up  Olivia's bin and sees some pictures Olivia has drawn.   Including the evil stepfather.  But then he sees a picture of white tulips (which he had passed by with his mother earlier) and connects the dots.  

Elizabeth finds some of Walter's notes and sees the lengths he is going to to get Peter back.  He knows of Olivia's abusive stepfather but is using that to his advantage.  The unique combination of Love and Terror seems to be the key to the crossover.   If he does not allow Olivia to return home to her unstable environment, it could take him years to simulate the state artificially.  This would seem to indicate by the end of the episode why Peter never returned home.  But at the moment, Walter realizes the importance of returning Peter home.  They will find out over there and attempt to get him back.  He knows because that is what he would do.  He is willing to sacrifice Olivia for the fate of millions of others.   Elizabeth and Walter's argument is cut short when they realize that now both Olivia AND Peter have gone missing. 

Walter is handed one of Olivia's pictures by his assistant.  The one where she drew her evil stepfather.  Walter seems to wake up to the idea that it is not right to be keeping Olivia in that environment. 

To be continued...

Over There

As expected, things are not too peachy for Walternate and Altlizabeth.  Walternate has resorted to drinking as the police have given up on searching for their son.  The couple's relationship is on shaky ground as they keep reliving the events that led to his disappearance.  Altlizabeth had an encounter with someone that looks exactly like Walternate but he wore a sweater which he would never do.  Clearly, the scientists OVER THERE have never considered the very reality of an parallel universe.  At least Walternate has never considered it.  

We find out that Walternate also works in Florida all week just like Walter.  But when he comes back all they do is fight and re-hash the disappearance of Peter.   They are no longer in a marriage, as Altlizabeth suggests.  This may be foreshadowing that they are no longer together in the present day, or at least their marriage may be just for show.  We know that their Elizabeth is still around because she reunited with Peter at the end of season 2.   But, of course, I'm still perplexed about Walternate's new Mistress that likes him in crazy robes!   Anyway, 1985 Walternate apologizes for his behavior and it seems they are on the path to repairing their marriage.  Elizabeth says that she needs him around.  But the next scene we find he has flown the coup back to Jacksonville to good ole Bishop Dynamic!  Smooth move Walternate!  We see that he also drinks on the job.   All around a depressing period for Peter's actual parents. 

The Meeting

Peter and Olivia get a quick glimpse of each other early on in the episode and there seems to be a connection right from the start.  (Cue eye rolls from the hardcore Sci-Fi crowd!)   I was going to say that it made sense that maybe Peter and Olivia wouldn't recognize each other later in life because they had grown and only shared first names, but then while rewatching I heard Walter say "Ahh, the beguiling Olivia Dunham beguiles!"   Granted, that doesn't mean much considering Olivia forgets her cortexiphan trial days and there is a chance Peter may not have remembered a last name from when he was a boy!

But the fireworks really start to fly when Peter grabs Olivia's picture of White Tulips and goes after her.   Peter explains to Olivia that he knew she'd go to the Tulips because it was her only drawing that looked happy.   We see the heat that Olivia put off burned some of the tulips nearby.  Peter lets her know that he is not afraid and sits beside her.   She confides in Peter that her step dad hit her.    She is afraid that Walter will send her home, but Peter insists that she tries to talk to him.  Walter should protect her.   Peter does not hesitate by calling Walter, "Walter" instead of his dad.  He immediately starts to talk about "my mom" but then hesitates for a second.  But then gets the courage and refers to her as his mother.  It seems this carried over into the later years.  He says that his mother was telling him how you have to imagine how you want things to be, then you can try to change them.   Peter doesn't say that that he trusts Walter but still insists that she has to trust "SOMETHING" and needs to tell him about it.  Olivia then feels she has cooled off and apparently imagined snow in the process.  Then we see the unlikely event of it snowing in Jacksonville, Florida.  You heard it here first people. Olivia is Mother Nature also! 

Peter and Olivia return to the Daycare facility.  Ashley, Walter's assistant, tells Olivia that her stepfather is on the way.  She panics and insists she needs to talk to Walter.   She runs in and tells Walter that her stepfather gave her the shiner and that he hits her all of the time.  She says that this is when she crossed over to the other universe.   She then hands Walter a book of drawings that says OLIVIA on the cover.  She talks about the blimps in the other universe and she wants his help to make her step dad stop.   But then the twist of all twists happens!  It turns out that Walter wasn't in his office as he was at the door asking Olivia what is wrong.   Nope, she crossed over again and just gave Walternate all of the intel he needed to start his full-blown investigation into our world!  WOAAAAA!!!!   I mean....GREAT SCOTT!!    This might explain how Fauxlivia even begins to work for Fringe Division.   Walternate probably did a massive search to find her and steer her down that path.    

But our Walter ends up doing the right thing by Olivia.  He tells that step dad what is up!  And if he lays another finger on her, social services will be on his doorstep!  Thus, delaying his ability to send Peter back home.   Ugh, conflicts on both sides!  Justifications on both ends!  Who on earth do we support!?   Everyone is kind of in the right here.  We just need to see how it all plays out.  What a fantastic show!!

We have a final scene with Peter and Elizabeth where he questions her one more time.  Elizabeth seems to be on the verge of breaking and telling him everything.  That it was all for his own good and she will never let anything ever happen to him.  But when Peter asks if she really is his mother, she again says that Peter was ill and that he remembers things incorrectly and that of course she is his mother.   And thus, the brainwashing of Peter begins as he accepts his fate.  And maybe that is all it was.  He was told enough times that he was really sick and things he remembered differently just weren't real.  And that was enough for him to stop asking questions and just go on with life until being brought back into the fold with Walter and Olivia years later.  But we also see that Elizabeth cannot deal with the lies as she takes possibly her first of many drinks that may lead to her suicide.  

The final shot shows us Walternate calling his wife to say that she knows where Peter is.  The book that Olivia handed him had a picture of Olivia and Peter holding hands in a meadow of white tulips, which again, foreshadowed their inevitable reunion years later.   I don't even care if this wasn't planned from the beginning of Fringe.  I think they tied it all together quite nicely!


Glyph Code of the Week: 
  • SWITCH - Most likely a reference to the bait and switch they pulled on us near the end of the episode with Olivia talking to Walternate instead of Walter.  (Thanks to Fringepedia as always for the picture)

Observer Spotted:
  • He was OVER THERE at Bishop Dynamic where a man was saying Good Morning to Walternate.

Previous Episode References: 

  • We meet Nick Lane as a child.  A former child who was part of the cortexiphan children.  He was partnered with Olivia and we have seen him in a couple previous episodes.  Bad Dreams (season 1).  Nick can control people with his minds and was stopped from committing a mass suicide.  He was also called to help in the season 2 finale OVER THERE where their mission was to cross over and save Peter.  (Old episode photos courtesy of Fringepedia as well)

  • White Tulip - White Tulip was the episode where Dr. Alistair Peck (AKA Peter Weller AKA Robocop) was finding ways to time travel and save his wife before she died in a car accident.  In the same episode Walter is struggling with telling Peter about his past.  Walter is waiting for a sign from God, a White Tulip, so that he can tell Peter the truth.   He does receive a drawing a White Tulip by the end of the episode from a the man (who ceases to exist in the present day because he saved his wife and sacrificed himself in the past).  Of course, it doesn't matter because Peter figures it out for himself.   The White Tulip returns in this episode as Elizabeth and Peter drive past a whole patch of them.  She tells him that someone invented the flower to grow in this area using his brain and imagination to make what he wanted a reality.  We see Olivia do the same thing with the snow too while sitting amongst the White Tulips with Peter.  

OVER THERE Differences:
  • No Peanut M&Ms Over There. A Travesty! 

  • Green Lantern is Red Lantern - We already knew this as Peter mentioned it in the present day when he was talking to Fauxlivia at the end of season 2.  It seemed to be one of the first things child Peter noticed as well before he was convinced that his sickness made him delusional.
  • Brooklyn Dodgers never moved to Los Angeles.  
  • It was interesting that the toy Peter picked out was a toy plane, but as we have seen in recent episodes it doesn't look like they use airplanes OVER THERE at all.  It's all Blimps!  There was even a toy blimp hanging in Peter's bedroom OVER THERE.   

  • Massive Dynamic was simply Bishop Dynamic over there.  This is probably because alternate William Bell died over there so they were likely never partners.   And Bishop Dynamic was in Jacksonville, Florida in the same location as Walter and Belly's "Daycare" center which helps set the stage for the reveal that Olivia tipped off Walternate about the existence of parallel universes. 

Classic 80's References

  • The Toy Store had tons of them from Atari games (Joust), Ghostbusters toys, Old School Battlestar Galactica, Rubik's Cube, to GI Joe.  There were classic board games all over the place.  Really shocked they didn't fit Back to the Future in there, but with Christopher Lloyd now being a character in the Fringe Universe(s), I guess that would just be a little silly! 

  • Star Wars Defense System - Well, this is an OVER THERE Difference as well but Walternate is the architect of this system that has actually been put in place.   We all know that this was a failed goal of Reagan's that was highly criticized.  Of course, on a show like Fringe where they are always investigating improbable scientific stuff, this fits right in!  It makes sense that the OVER THERE scientists would have pursued this.   
  • Fringe Opening Credits - The words refer to what may have seemed cutting edge at the time instead of the crazy cutting edge stuff we usually see in the opening credits for the present day.  I'm sure they were the same in last year's Peter episode, but still a good time! 

  • Walter didn't use VHS to record his Olivia experiments to show William Bell.  It was all Betamax!  It wouldn't surprise me if Betamax outlived VHS over there either! 

And there you have it Fringe friends.  Another classic episode of the show is in the books for us to remember always.  And I feel we will be getting even more classics on this ride to wherever they're taking us.  And I look forward to each and every episode coming.  I'd love to hear everyone else's thoughts on the episode and possibly shining the light on things that I missed or misstated.   Looks like we're off next week but will be back in 2 weeks.  That should be fun since THE EVENT will be returning that week as well.  I'll back to my full-time blogging schedule!  Be patient with me on getting this stuff posted.  I will try my best to be timely!   I'll see you in a couple weeks! 

End Credits

  • Follow me on Twitter for any future blog postings and any interesting news I find. @TVAddictsBlog
  • I don't have faith that the ratings are going to return for The Event due to NBC's lousy scheduling, but I'll still continue to recap! NBC just confirmed it's returning on March 7th.  What a travesty!  No one is coming back to watch this one, but if you do please keep checking for my recaps! 
  • I'll definitely be there when The Walking Dead returns, but that's most likely in the fall! AMC has been reairing the show though so if you ever catch it, you can find my recaps at the link. DVD/Blu comes out in March as well.
  • Shows I'm watching right now (and might comment on time permitting): Episodes, Shameless (both Showtime), Chuck, How I Met Your Mother, V, Modern Family, Cougar Town, Big Bang Theory, The Office, Community, 30 Rock, Smallville and others that I won't mention out of embarrassment!
  • Upcoming shows I'm looking forward to: Game of Thrones (HBO), Terra Nova (FOX - Pilot airs in May but show begins in fall), Breaking Bad (AMC), Several JJ Abrams shows launching in the fall (Alcatraz with Jorge Garcia, Odd Jobs with Michael Emerson and Terry O'Quinn to name a couple)  It looks like Odd Jobs may get put on hold indefinitely now that Michael Emerson has signed up for a JJ Abrams pilot on CBS: Person of Interest  Naturally, I'll have to check that out too. 
  • I know it's sometimes looked at as a blemish on my beautiful blogging record, but I am still watching American Idol and while I've cut back on my dedication to blogging about the show, I'm still posting some comments about the auditions on my latest post. If you watch the show, feel free to praise and make fun of the show with me!


Anonymous said...

Thanks for the post.
My daughter thought the 80s graphics were great.

Good thought on Walternate locating Fauxlivia.

I am having a very hard time buying the deal about how bad it would be for the worlds if Peter went home. Especially since he's traveled at least 3 times now and the last one due to Walter and Olivia! Not to mention all the other travel. I've counted 5 different technologies for travel now.


Anonymous said...

Some observations on universe jumping
1. There are at least 5 "technologies" used so far for jumpin. a.Walter, b.Davis, c.Walternate, d.Bell elevator,e.Bell/Walters particle accelerator. Plus shape shifters

2. Mental movement has ocurred several times with Olivia. Plus others.

3. This makes me take statements about how terrible it is to jump from one universe to the other, with a some skepticism. ie, it's convenient to be a problem when needed, but not be a problem when needed to tell a story.


Mike V. said...

Thanks for the comments Richard. I think the whole thing about crossing worlds is that the only person that has been able to do it "SAFELY" is Olivia and they haven't been able to harness that power on a regular basis or figure out how it works. They're getting closer in the current day, but Walter needed the help of her other cortexiphan friends to get them over there at the end of season 2 (similar to what we saw him trying to do at the beginning of this episode). When Walter crossed to get Peter, it started the tearing at the fabric of the universe OVER THERE. He stated in this past episode, if he tried to create the device again, it might cause problems in THIS's too highly unstable and risky. Walternate has been looking for a way to send HUMANS over to our side without the risks involved. Shapeshifters are an exception since they aren't exactly human. It's easier to send them over. (why? i don't know) But this episode explained that the fact that Walter fixed Olivia's home life, it made it much more difficult to send Peter back. And of course, even if he did figure out how to do it since then, he's having a hard time remembering everything because he asked William Bell to take out a piece of his brain.

But yeah..Olivia is the key to SAFE transport between worlds. It is intense emotion that causes it to happen and it probably happened more often as a child as she was in that constant state of fear.

Forgot to mention that the one time they used the particle accelerator they had to sacrifice William Bell to get back home. So I think they've been pretty clear that crossing worlds is not easy every time they've done it. The only times it has been relatively easy is through Olivia but she still doesn't quite know how to do it voluntarily.

Probably repeated myself a lot there! lol

Carrie said...

I would guess probably doesn't remember the contraption that he went through to get to Over Here. His memory was all wonky to begin with from his experiences and it would see he doesn't remember that at all.

You are correct, a lake in NY wouldn't be frozen for 6 months. I think that's a bit of a continuity error on their part because it definitely seemed that the scene with Peter trying to "go home" was right before Elizabeth took him to Jacksonville.

Walter and William Bell started experimenting on kids in 1981. I guess it took until 1985 to figure out exactly how to get them to cross over. They were making soldiers for the future war.

Remember in Jacksonville we saw a very tiny Olivia, maybe 3 years old, sitting in the corner of a room she had set on fire? So, this wasn't the first time she did that.

Did William Bell grow the white tulips?

Mike V. said...

Thanks Carrie! Yeah, the facts you point out make sense. My Fringe memory doesn't come back to me on cue like it did for LOST. But I'm working to remedy that as I rewatch seasons 1 and 2 lol I didn't remember the experimentations began in 1981 though. Thanks for the clarification!

I agree about the Frozen lake thing. Seems like a continuity error, but it still made for some great television.

I didn't even consider that we may know who this "INVENTOR" was but you could be absolutely right that it was William Bell. Why else would Elizabeth know that random bit of information?

And you could be right about Peter not remembering the contraption used to come over here. I'm excited to get back to season 2 on my rewatch, but the rewatch is going quite slowly. I'll get there!

Thanks for the comments!

Anonymous said...

Walter wanted a white tulip as proof of doing the right thing when Peter Weller gave it to him. I forget which episode. But Weller was a time traveler.


Anonymous said...

I suspect Bell will come back somehow.

Walternate, Walter and Bell really need to get together and figure out how to save both universes. Maybe Olivia and Peter can do that?


AUStarwars said...

By hard core sci fi fans rolling their eyes, whoever could you have meant?

I must have missed it I was too busy trying to understand when photographic memory FBI agent who did "Fringe cases" because The Phoenix and the key to both of our "universes" have time to roll my eyes...

Anonymous said...

Does someone know why the hand during intro to all shows has 5 fingers and a thumb?


Anonymous said...

You know the strings remind me of LOST

Mike V. said...

@AUSW - I discussed this with you briefly off the blog and you were referring to Fringe turning into X-Men. lol makes more sense now that I'm sober! For some reason I thought you were referring to the fact that Olivia has a photographic memory and didn't remember anything from this flashback and that she developed super powers lol I totally get the Phoenix reference now. But apparently, per Carrie's comment...we have seen child Olivia set rooms on fire before too. All of these cortexiphan patients opened parts of their mind that let them do these unimaginable things. But yes, I still understand the complaint. It is noted, but I'm going to pause on complaining about it just yet :-)

@Richard - I will go through your comments in order. LOL

- I discussed the White Tulip stuff and dropped some Robocop references in the "Observ'er'ations" section of the recap - The season 2 episode was ironically called "WHITE TULIP". Doesn't change your comment from being any less valid....just saying :-) lol

- As for Bell coming back...I would say it definitely isn't out of the realm of possibilities judging by previews for a future episode and the fact that Leonard Nimoy tweeted that he's coming out of retirement to return to Fringe! Of course, that could be for a flashback or who knows what?!

- As far as the 6 fingered hand on the Glyphs (and the intro) - I couldn't tell you exactly except for the official FOX site used to reference an actual case of a 6 fingered man. Check this site out for additional info on the glyphs. It's probably all based in actual "FRINGE" scientific studies:

- The Music/Strings similarity to LOST - Definitely not a coincidence. J.J. Abrams always uses Holy Cross High School Delran, New Jersey Alumnus Michael Giacchino to score all of his TV Shows and movies. Naturally, I referenced the high school with such detail because it's the same high school I went to! lol

Anonymous said...

Wow, that is awesome about your HS, Mike.

I appreciate your response to AUSW. I can see this developing into a man vs machine battle or a battle of the "superpowered". They have said over and over that there is nothing the mind can't do. In many ways we are already there with Peter and Olivia.

BTW, the Shapeshifters can develop an affinity for our world, which means there's no guarantees there for Walternate.

Could Sam Weiss could be Seamus Wiles?


Mike V. said...

Yeah - Pretty cool going to the same school as Giacchino. I have no doubt that he was involved with the music stuff there too which I happened to be also. So that's kinda cool. He won an OSCAR for his scoring of UP a couple years back. Naturally, the fact that we went to the same school doesn't mean much in the scheme of things but still a fun piece of local trivia.

I understand AUSW's concerns (I think) at the same time. It's just bizarre when you think some of these shows are grounded in SCIENCE and the people start developing strange abilities. LOST, now Fringe. But at the same time, we have seen people with crazy abilities since day 1 on Fringe but then they are always explained with pseudo science. For Olivia and her fellow daycare classmates - Cortexiphan is the source of giving them unlimited powers. I really doubt we will see a future episode of Fringe where we have a bunch of superheroes battling each other like in X-Men: The Last Stand lol As for Man vs. Machine...maybe...I dunno. I guess it could happen!

Agreed that we have been seen shapeshifters being pretty content with living their "lives" in our world. Could be a big foreshadowing there.

Not sure I understand your last question. Is Seamus Wiles a real person or are you referring to one of the various anagrams of authors for THE FIRST PEOPLE that always points back to Sam Weiss? It's tough to tell what episodes you have seen and haven't seen so I hope I didn't spoil something big for you there! lol

Anonymous said...

Since there's no L in Sam Weiss, I don't think it can be an actual anagram--although some call it that. But, certainly word play. I am wondering if Sam Weiss is indeed the author of The First People. I know you don't trust him. But, he seems to be able to almost predict the future, like with the business cards of those wearing red ties for Olivia--it's a small thing. Maybe magic, maybe very smart--like the guy who was given the smart drugs(to help him with mental problems and became an out of control murdering genius--(is that Xmenish-LOL?))

It's a little thing, but in one scene he asks Olivia for a nut, she asked which size, he responded with it doesn't matter and proceeded to thread on the one she gave him.

There seems to be two vacuum/doomsday machines, one in each universe. But some parts missing in each case too. Since the observers want Peter in this universe and he's the only one that can activate the machine, it's almost like they want this universe to disappear, not the alternate.

I have seen all episodes now, some twice(except about 8 from S1). I don't recall seeing an observer in the alternate universe. Of course it's already falling apart and doesn't need a doomsday machine to take it down.

One key thing though is everyone has said that both universes have to be in balance--by mass. And as the one falls apart, so must the other?

AS far as the Xmen thing, I can see where we have something like that since we already have Peter and Olivia and they don't have to end up on the same side. Especially with Fauxlivia carrying his child. I can't imagine he would abandon his son given his Daddy issues.

Also, Walternate has the key now as to why Olivia is so special. Can you imagine if he gave those drugs to Peter's son and he grew at an accelerated rate? I know, kind of Xmen, but in a way more Duneish.


Mike V. said...

Fine we'll go with "pseudo anagram"! lol I didn't say I didn't trust Sam Weiss...I said there was an ACTUAL anagram that was on a chalkboard in the season 2 finale that was translated to say "Do Not Trust Sam Weiss"....and the producers have repeated that phrase in recent discussions.

I definitely think there is more to Sam's character. I do think he's probably involved with the FIRST PEOPLE / Observers/ whatever...but exactly what is unknown at this time. I guess he could be some drugged up fortune teller as you suggest....but time will tell! That episode was pretty awesome when he was able to calculate the future.

Yeah, I'm interested in rewatching those scenes with Sam Weiss when I get there.

i'm still confused about the doomsday machines and if there is 1 or 2. I'm guessing you're right about 2 since they got the one piece they needed from OUR world and brought it back OVER THERE. As for the observers....not sure if you know this tidbit or not yet but there is an observer in EVERY episode of Fringe. We haven't spent time with the observers OVER THERE but there is almost a "WHERE'S WALDO" game of finding the observer in each episode. Since I have been recapping this season, I have snagged screenshots and put them in each recap, so you can go check em out.

I have theorized before that maybe the FIRST PEOPLE are responsible for the creation of these 2 parallel universes in the first place (using the doomsday machine). AUSW theorized (and I agree) that maybe the OBSERVERS themselves are somehow related to the FIRST PEOPLE. I don't necessarily feel that the Observers want to destroy any universes. But they do feel that Peter is important for something.

Definitely a good question on the MASS. And a good point. I have stated multiple times that I don't think one world is going to win out over the other. I really think there is going to be an OPTION C that none of us are really even thinking about. We have been told various times that the machine has the power to destroy AND create. I guess we'll see!

Peter may be conflicted when he ever finds out about having a child (btw..I read today that they may not even reveal that in this season and it will make sense why not as we see more episodes). The producers said that this isn't going to play out in a traditional sense....I think there will be roadblocks for Peter and Olivia coming, but I don't think they will stray too far from fighting for the same cause over the long haul.

Ahh accelerated growth of a hybrid child....actually sounds like the way V is playing out right now. Then's NOT a hybrid child so forget that! lol It will be interesting to see what Walternate's plans for the grandchild are. I'm thinking for now it's just a device for him to sway his son to return. We'll see!

MJ said...

Just read something that I will paste below .... so spoilerphobes beware

Pinkner and exec producer Joel Wyman assure us that Peter and Olivia's love story is a priority for the show -- but the road won't be easy. Peter impregnated alternate-Olivia, and he doesn't know it yet. He may stay in the dark for longer than we expect. "We're thinking about maybe holding it off," Wyman says.

"Perhaps until next season," adds Pinkner.

They've got bigger things to deal with now. "There's a good reason for it. We can't tell you now, but we're trying to do something now that nobody's ever done and we're excited for our season finale. It's something we're really excited about," Pinkner says. "In the best story of star-crossed lovers, they don't get together in the first act. Our intention is to have a long shelf life. The Peter-Olivia story will always be at the heart of it, but it may not always be smooth sailing."

What could they be doing for the finale that's never been done ? I'm very intrigued.

Mike V. said...

Thanks MJ. I read that too (I was kinda referring to it in my last post)....but I forget where! lol I'm very intrigued!

Anonymous said...

MJ,Mike, others.

mmmmmmm As far as different season ender, coming from the absurd department, but not beyond imagination--maybe an Olivia 2 into 1? I doubt it since the preggers Olivia makes for intrigue, but it would be different.

Mike, I like your thoughts on the Observers coming from The Fist People. But I just don't think they've been in the alternate universe, maybe I'm wrong. But if I'm right, that's significant.

At this point, I'm thinking that Sam Weiss is the author of those books and extremely capable. (Thanks for the heads up about the chalk board anagram) And like many history books, they are written from the perspective of the author. So, I am taking what those books say with a little bit of skepticism.

I thought of Duneish for the boy growing at an accelerated rate since that's what Paul's sister did as she had ingested a "special chemical" in the womb. And she developed special powers/capabilities.

BTW, depending on how they do the on again/off again relationship between Peter and Olivia, it could get old quick. Maybe that's why my daughter likes this show? I'll have to ask her. But if they're targeting 15 year old girls with over the top or drawn out relationship issues--I'm a gonner. I thought she liked it because you can get more out of the show if you engage your brain?

MIke, one of the reasons I like your blogs are the tidbits you dig up from "shows related sources", such as producers. I don't have the time, etc. Also, great knowing you've got that musical background--my daughter was on the all state strings ensemble. Maybe that's another reason she likes the show? What did you play?


Mike V. said...

Totally Un-Fringe Related but TV Addicts related: Just read that Showtime renewed Episodes and Shameless. AWESOME NEWS! Still haven't watched last night's Shameless (had to watch the OSCARS live. whew that was painful) but I do love that show lol

Okay FRINGE Time again:
I've thought down the same path as you too Richard. Like some kind of MERGING of worlds as opposed to destroying worlds. But I agree...not really sure about merging Olivias. That would be kinda crazy.

I can't take credit for the Observers being related to the First People theory. That's all AUSW...but I just liked it a lot so I decided to sign up as a believer lol But you're definitely wrong...the observers have been in EVERY EPISODE of Fringe. There are clear screenshots that show the Observers OVER THERE. We just haven't dealt with an episode AROUND the observers OVER THERE. I really think the observers transcend time AND dimensions. i.e. They probably don't have issues going between worlds. But, it's definitely something they need to delve into.

Yep...I don't think we should accept the FIRST PEOPLE books as fact just yet. But it's definitely some interesting mythology I would like to see the show explore.

I have to admit, and this may be a blow to my sci-fi cred....I don't think I really have watched DUNE. I know my Dad had it when I was growing up it so I may have seen some scenes here or there. But I wouldn't know enough about the plot to be comparing it to FRINGE or anything lol Kind of a shocker that I haven't seen it, because I'm sure it's good stuff.

You'll be happy to hear that you're not the only one that isn't watching Fringe for the Peter/Olivia romance. In fact, AUStar Wars hates the fact that they're focusing so much on it lately. The romance is secondary to me. I enjoy it, but I want to see them explore the other crazy stuff going on too. Observers, Weiss, First People, Massive Dynamic. I think they're going to get there in good time. But for now they need to advance this story to where it needs to be.

I appreciate your props on the blog. I used to be on EW and TV Guide every day and every minute waiting for them to post some news about LOST or Fringe or whatever....with the advent of Twitter, the news comes and finds me. It's awesome. If you follow the right people, you get links directly to the news you want to read (not that I'm trying to promote Twitter or anything!!) If I ever read something I particularly find useful or interesting, I usually RETWEET it to my followers. Good stuff.

Anyways, Music...I play the piano (well I sing too, but I took lessons in piano lol). Been playing since I was 4. No classical or anything...more in the Pop/Rock (Billy/Elton type stuff) area if it needs to be classified as something. I love to play, just wish I could play more often.

Anonymous said...

OK, on the observers:
1. I have seen on fringepedia and other places that observer observing, if you will, is a part of the gig. That at least one observer is in each episode.
2. I checked fringepedia and other places and cannot find any shot that shows them in the alternate universe. Most shots don't have enough background to verify either way. And the ones that do, seem to be of this universe.
3. I agree that they go through time, etc and should be able to go to the alternate universe.
4. You have a good point about the difference between them being there vs us seeing them actively involved with someone.
5. Until I see one in the alt universe or a screen shot with a back ground that is of the alt universe, it's hard for me to ignore their absence there. I'm pretty sure that even with shows having the red intro that there are flashes to this universe and so that's where the observers pop up.
6. Particularly when they want Peter staying in this universe. After he went back and yet he was born in the other side
7. The fact that each side has their own vacuum, that Peter is the only one who can turn either one on and they want him in this universe seems important. They keep referencing Peter dieing and the vacuum seems like it would be the type of device that might require the life of it's powersource.

BTW, given how you enjoyed LOST and seem to like Fringe--I think you would really like the original Dune. The syfy channel version wasn't very well produced.


Mike V. said...

Richard - Go through my old recaps from this season. Here's a link to all of them: Click into any one with a RED FRINGE Logo...those episodes happened OVER THERE...and there are pictures of the Observers doing what they do best..."OBSERVING"

But yes, we have not spent an episode with the observers while we are over there.

I don't recall the observers ever saying that they WANT Peter in this universe. I need to watch the PETER episode again, but I thought they just wanted Peter ALIVE. And they want Walter to be WILLING to let Peter die. Not necessarily need Peter to die. (all technicalities in the wording of that said of course...but with the observers, you have to dissect exactly what they say lol)

But you watched the season 2 eps a lot more recently than me so I'll have to defer to your memory over mine! :)

Maybe I'll check out Dune one of these days. Thanks for the recommendation!

Anonymous said...

Yea, check out the last 2 eps of season 2.

Mike V. said...

Cool - will do.

Here are some observer pics over there (apologies, I didn't do it for the first over there ep)

Ep 3x7


Ep 3x3

Anonymous said...

OK, the first one seems to be what I've been looking for.

Which, and to your point, makes me wonder why we haven't seen them in dialogue with people over there.

Just to stir things up a bit, I wonder what their Sam Weiss is like??? lol



Anonymous said...

Rewatch the end of S3 Ep12. Sam basically admits he's the author. Also that the vacuum doomsday machine can be used for destruction or creation.


Mike V. said...

I definitely remember the end of S3 Ep 12. I believe Sam is the author of The First People, I even believe that the machine can be used for destruction or creation (even though most people, including even Walter) are focused on the "DESTRUCTION" part. I'm not sure I quite believe the part where Peter has to pick an Olivia and that universe is the winner. lol I still think something unpredictable is going to happen when/if the machine is used. But that's just me.

As for an OVER THERE Sam Weiss...who is to say he has a doppleganger? What if he PRE-DATES the 2 separate universes? (similar to the observers) We definitely need to know more about Sam and his background. Is he human? Is he First People? Is he a Rogue Observer? something else? I'm intrigued!

Mike V. said...

Granted I made an assumption there that the doomsday machine was originally used to create 2 distinct universes. That totally may not be the case!

Anonymous said...

In rewatching/skimming S3E13 last night a very interesting exchange with Walternate where he doesn't want to experiment with children. But, "a lab guy I should know his name) pointed out that the formula they got from Olivia works better the younger the subjects.

Which somewhat plays into the notion that Walternate might be willing to do something to HIS grandchild vs innocent children. But, what will Fauxlivia have to say????

Also, from E12 it seemed like Nina and Sam have some history which might prove interesting. Or at least makes me question how upfront/honest Nina is being.

Good point about there possibly being only 1 Sam Weiss. Which if that's the case, makes me more curious as to why we haven't seen engagement of the observers OVER THERE with people like Walternate.


MJ said...

Wow - Fringe was very well commented on this week. The lake was pretty slushy when Peter tried to drop the cinder block in - so maybe that was their attempt to show time passage. Pretty weak though.

I heard - and am thrilled about Episodes and Shameless getting another season. And I have not watched from this weekend either. LOL

Chuck was awesome ! Had two Lost references. have to admit the one was obvious - Dr Candle ! But I missed that the Volkoff account number was 4815162342. And the whole bank robbery scene was a total nod to the Pulp Fiction diner robbery and to the matrix ! Totally great.

Don't know if you saw HIMYM - so all I'll say is I am happy with the way the Nora story appears to be going.

Mike V. said...

@Richard - Hmm, I just figured that conversation between Brandon and Walternate was to show a distinct difference between Walter and Walternate, and to start the process of making Walternate be more HUMAN and appear less evil to the viewers and the Fringe team on our side. I think he made it very clear that he does not want to experiment on children. But it's a good point that using Peter's child would be a great lab rat for cortexiphan experimentaiton. lol

As for Nina and Sam. Well, Nina has always been a bit of a shady character but lately she has seemed to be more forthcoming with the Fringe team and their ongoing investigations. But in those early season 1 episodes, it definitely seemed like she was up to no good. All things to keep tabs on I guess!

@MJ - Indeed, there definitely has been lots of Fringe conversation as opposed to other weeks! Agreed though, the passage of time (or lack thereof) does not make a whole lot of sense. Fringe needs to consult the Flashback Masters of LOST. They did pretty well at keeping the timelines consistent. The first time I remember really questioning it was after the Richard episode in season 6 when the years didn't sync up with THE CONSTANT episode date given. But, we were able to work that one out and it seemed to make sense lol

Episodes/Shameless -> Definitely thrilled about the renewals. I didn't even know how the shows were doing ratings-wise. Never read much about it. So it's great to hear they are considered HITS! Still haven't watched Shameless and it's looking more and more like I'll be watching Sunday or will then be 2 behind lol

Chuck was fantastic. Totally caught the card number. I saw a 4 and an 8 and then I said to my wife "wait...what was that number again?" and hit the 8-second replay button on the TiVo remote and definitely saw all of the numbers. Damon Lindelof tweeted not long after with a picture, writing to Josh Shwartz "I guess I'll be watching Chuck live tonight!" lol And yes...Chang was in it too. Fantastic episode. Definitely loving this 2nd crop of episodes. I agree with Pulp Fiction and Matrix references. I wonder what Casey is up to with Robin Givens in Castle though. hmmmm Love the idea of Morgan and Casey living together too. So much potential!

I did watch HIMYM - And agree with the Nora story. I like her and her with Barney. I was left wondering if THAT was the wedding we were witnessing at some point in the future. So many possibilities! lol

Anonymous said...

Does anyone know why Walter isn't using the more advanced Massive Dynamic labs as opposed to his old Harvard lab? I know he was being a little weird for the MD employees, but nothing was said that he would need to move. And a lot of geniuses are a little different. Which makes me wonder who's paying Harvard, the FBI?

After he inherited the company he was using labs there. But a few episodes later, he was back in his "dungeon".

My skeptical side wonders if Nina didn't want him there "spying" on what was going on. But I don't remember anything about why they moved back to Harvard.


Mike V. said...

I think it's 3-fold.

1.) Walter probably prefers his lab with all of his tools and his cow lol He made all of those special requests in the pilot episode and the FBI granted them. He has access to Massive Dynamic's technology and all of that and uses it when he needs it, but it's not HIS lab.

2.) It's not FRINGE without Walter's lab as a character in the show! It's almost like THE ISLAND was a character in lost lol

3.) Walter, Peter and Olivia (and I'd assume Broyles and the FBI) all reside in Boston and dispatch from there to wherever they need to be. Massive Dynamic is in NYC. So it's not always feasible to be working at Massive Dynamic's lab.

MJ said...

Forgot that you watch 'V' as well - that show has really hit it's stride the past few weeks. too bad that it's probably as dead as Event now.
Sawyer would be shocked I tell you !

Agree - the harvard lab is it's own character on Fringe.

Mike V. said...

I would agree that V has been much better the past week weeks. But totally agree it's probably too little/ too late. And there's still plenty to care placing over importance in a very bad actor...aka TYLER. He is so awful but they insist on keeping him involved in the show. They have had so many opportunities to write him off! And then the dude with his hybrid daughter. How awful are those scenes? And yes, I still complain about how hoaky the green screen V-Ship scenes are. It may be intentional but it's pretty bad. But yeah, I think we figured ever since they introduced Hobbes that it would eventually be a "romantic" interest for Erica. The scene definitely added some needed heat to the show and continues to justify my argument that all most good sci-fi has good romantic sub-plots to go with it!

And yes Sawyer would TOTALLY be shocked!

As for The Event, I agree its chances of renewal are very very slim....but I gotta say, this Charlie Sheen situation may end up helping it lol (2.5 Men same time slot)

MJ said...

Hey good point about Charlie Sheen ! Didn't even think of that. LOL

I'll be watching and reading the blog for the Event. Figure I'll just see it thru to the end. I DO want to know what the event is afterall.

Agree on everything you said about V - but i think the best imporvement the last few weeks is the action. The rebels are being proactive finally. I was just glad that they did not pair Erica with the father - that seemed a possiblility for awhile. And that would have been icky !

Mike V. said...

Saved The Event #WINNING!!! lol

Based on recent previews, I think they practically have given away what The Event might be. But I'm sure there is more to it. I'm sure I'm just making assumptions and I'm not even close lol I do want to see it through until the end too. Same with FlashForward, I couldn't give up on the blogging even when I knew it would fail!

Yup, upping the action definitely helped. I think they're being very blatant with it too in the past Erica's big speech after her ex died. It was almost like "WE ARE GOING TO STOP BEING BORING!! WE ARE GOING TO START FIGHTING NOW! PLEASE TUNE IN! IN A COUPLE EPISODES THERE WILL BE ROMANCE TOO!" lol

Agree the romance with the priest seemed like an inevitablility. Especially since he is no longer a priest now. I wouldn't even count it out if the show gets renewed. But we'll see!

Anonymous said...

I thought they pulled the Event. When is it coming back? As you may recall, I really didn't like the cheap CGI, but at this point, I would like to find out how it ends.

BTW, transhumanism seems a lot like Xmen to me.


Mike V. said...

Man, it's crazy how many people are asking me if The Event is coming back. I talked endlessly about this before the show went on hiatus and ever since then I have written about it in every blog post in my "end credits" section! You guys need to read that to know what I'm planning to write about next! (you know...if you care lol)

Anyway here's what I wrote about THE EVENT:

"I don't have faith that the ratings are going to return for The Event due to NBC's lousy scheduling, but I'll still continue to recap! NBC just confirmed it's returning on March 7th. What a travesty! No one is coming back to watch this one, but if you do please keep checking for my recaps!

MARCH 7th is the return of THE EVENT. That would be Monday. I believe it will be a 2 hour EVENT. So either 8-10 or 9-11.

BTW, I don't think the CGI gets any cheaper looking than it does on V! lol

Mike V. said...

Nice article about Fringe's future with Feff Pinkner. (This season and as far as potentially season 8, pending FOX lets it live that long) Note: there are some mild spoilers about certain characters and specific episodes that they might show up. Also, if certain plot events might happen this season or ever. Nothing we haven't already discussed.

Mike V. said...

"Feff Pinkner" - > you know...fancy way of saying JEFF! lol

Anonymous said...

Thanks Mike.

I don't tend to get invested into a show at least until I know the producers and network is behind it. And that usually takes more than a year. It of course gives you time to see what the quality will be as well as direction.

So, now that I am invested into Fringe it's good to see that they have a few more years anyway.

In a way Fringe is the flipside of the Event. Maybe Sheen can put his warlock powers to use saving the Event--lol. That guy does make me laugh though.


Mike V. said...

Not a bad idea to wait and see if a show is going to last Richard. I'm too impatient for that! And just because the producers have a 6-8 season plan for Fringe doesn't mean FOX will keep it on the air that long. One can only hope, since they are fans of the show themselves, that it can stick around!

Totally agree with Sheen though, I'd rather have him promoting Fringe on his Media tour. That dude is totally out of his gord but is cracking me up. If you haven't signed up for Twitter yet, now is the time. It's great watching a man self destruct in real time! lol

MJ said...

SIGH! I used to think the same - that I'd stop getting invested in stuff until I felt it was going to hang around. But what seemed to happen was that I missed some great tv and had to struggle to catch up with watching old and new at the same time (BSG) or we would give the net the excuse since we weren't watching it then it did not have the better ratings.

Paley was friday and had some hinty/spoilery stuff about Walking Dead. I only skimmed as I don't want to know too much. LOL

HIMYM got renewed for TWO years. Thank you Charlie Sheen ! I think CBS was getting nervous.

Event is 8 to 10 - I know cause it's preempting Chuck. I haven't seen any promos for it since I don't watch live tv and I just fly thru the commercials. So I guess I'm the only one left in america that does NOT know the event ? That's ok though !

Mike V. said...

Yeah, I hear you on not catching on to the good shows from the beginning. Obviously, that happened to me with BSG too. So I watched it all AFTER I finished LOST. Flew through it this summer. Did the same with Breaking Bad. Once you get a few seasons behind, it gets really tough to catch up. Unless, it's the summer. Comedies are easier though. I just caught up on Parks and Rec in the past month. Had the new episodes tivo'd and flew through seasons 1 and 2 on Netflix. Another hysterical show that I wrote off after the pilot!

I read some stuff about the Walking Dead forum...nothing too spoilery! Enough to get me excited for episode 7! lol

Saw the HIMYM news too....I'm sure they were nervous! It's great that we have the show for another 2 years but I hope they can keep up this renewed energy they have brought this season!
I think I knew Chuck wasn't going to be on because of THE EVENT, but I think at some point NBC was planning an hour recap and THEN the 2 hour return of THE EVENT. Probably since the show didn't live up to its name, they're just doing the 2 hours lol I don't know if we REALLY know what the event is, but the promo definitely used one phrase that implied a lot. I don't watch LIVE TV either, but I did stop to rewind and watch The Event promos :-) lol

Anyway, I read Alan Sepinwall's ( review of the return episodes and he pretty much said it's MORE OF THE SAME. No tweaking went on during the break and the promos reveal more than these 2 episodes reveal. WONDERFUL! What a way to add excitement to its return tonight!

I gotta be honest, I'm not looking forward to trudging through 2 hours of this and then recapping it. And I'm thinking that most likely my recap will be pretty LIGHT on the play by play recapping and trying to get to the major points, if any, of the 2 eps. That's the only way I think I'll stay sane! lol

BTW - ALL caught up on Shameless. Still loving it!

Mike V. said... Good interview with John Noble (Walter) and Jasika Nicole (Astrid)

Noble is convinced the show is doing great and will return next season.

"While refraining from too many specifics about upcoming episodes, Noble did say that the future of the show itself appears secure. He quoted Fox Entertainment President Kevin Reilly as saying, “If these people can maintain 1.5 (ratings) points, then they’re not going anywhere.”

“Well, we’ve not only done that, we’ve exceeded it,” Noble said. “And we set a record last week for what they call DVR Live +7,” which tracks time-shifted viewing among people who record a show to watch later. “We increased 71 percent in the +7s, which has never been before done by anyone. So based on those figures, I think we should be fairly safe. Unless Kevin breaks his word, and I don’t think he will.”"

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the link.

Jasika/Astrid really adds balance and a lot more to the show. So many of the personalities are type A some even more of a act first, think later type. She is calm, kind and talented bringing a richer texture to the show.

In the beginning Peter was the one needed to control and assist Walter, now Astrid is stepping in. Which is real life since she spends so much time with him.